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 Post subject: Heart of Wolverine
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:35 am 
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Any plan in improving that when oak is going to be nerf'd?

23lvl HoW in melee gear gives 300% dmg/ar/def.
20 lvl might gives 300%dmg (Victory RW)
Rends(end game item) 300%
9lvl frozen armor gives 300%def
nothing really gives more AR than that. Ench maybe or blessed aim/fanaticism.

300% for a maxed skill that must be summoned every 20secs(it dies on close combat druids) and only this isn't something impressive. 16lvl fury gives 325% ed and 510%AR... and auras are being thrown on every item in game, frozen armor lasts like an hour and with +skills it gives 600%++

Seems like there's no point to go 20lvl HoW. I maxed it and already feeling bad about this. 300% gives boosts max dmg from 6.1 to 7.1k with 400% ed wpn (lochaber axe uniq). So far Oak > HoW by all means.

Suggestion. 20%ed and 15%ar/def per point. That way 23lvl HoW would be around 470%ed, 360+ ar/def. 30lvl 600%+ ed 450% ar/def.


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 Post subject: Re: Heart of Wolverine
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:01 am 

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This would also buff druid summoners significantly, which might be a good thing (?).


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 Post subject: Re: Heart of Wolverine
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:22 am 
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would this make other melee builds who use wisp ring too strong?



ahahah i couldn't ask that without laughing...

would it be better to add base damage, like war travs or grief, if that's possible?


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 Post subject: Re: Heart of Wolverine
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:12 am 
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Quote:
would this make other melee builds who use wisp ring too strong?
12lvl HoW on din/ww barbs die under 0.5sec.
Quote:
ahahah i couldn't ask that without laughing...
Because you don't have any melee.

Anyway I'm afraid that idea will be dropped. Ppl tend to go crazy if someone suggest to buff already weak builds. See avengers couple ladders ago, see melee now. PPl are afraid that build that can attack withing 4yards range at most will be too OP while other builds clears every location blindfolly, one handed.
edit:
ImageNotice physical res :D. I need tobials reanimates.


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 Post subject: Re: Heart of Wolverine
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:08 pm 
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Wouldn't it be more accurate to say a reanimate of anything with moncurse? It's the moncurse's amp that for some reason is still coded to deliver a -100% DR amp.


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 Post subject: Re: Heart of Wolverine
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:54 am 
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20% a point would be worth investing in , i agree its almost not worht it to max it right now for most causes, perhaps only the ar bonus is usefull as of now

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 Post subject: Re: Heart of Wolverine
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:16 am 
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Moncurses amp is the necro's amp. It is taken from the same line unless you change what lines moncurse points too. (think i posted the locations for that somewhare here)

I agree with a buff to HoW I made a HoW fury druid a while ago and the def bonus/ar bonus wasn't anything like enough of a back up.
The damage bonus was crap (same as around 2-3 points to str per level atm?)
but the AR bonus isn't too bad. I'd rather HoW damage bonus etc was left alone and it was given a decent deadly strike bonus.

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 Post subject: Re: Heart of Wolverine
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 1:59 am 
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PureRage-DoD wrote:
Moncurses amp is the necro's amp. It is taken from the same line unless you change what lines moncurse points too. (think i posted the locations for that somewhare here)

I'm not sure if it doesn't use different formulas. For example Moncurse' LR on hell is -1 all ele even mag, amp from death knights is -1 too. Only bosses use fucked up amp. Succubus and Fire demons have ok amp/lr. OK = 45% reduce.
I don't know what you part of skills you edited but should be worth a try to change parx numbers and see if it changes.


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 Post subject: Re: Heart of Wolverine
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:48 pm 
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add 0.25 cb for each harpoint for total of 5% cb when maxed HoW and 1% deadly strike for each hardpoint for a total of 20% ;D... also add the inmune to physical to it for a little more survivality


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 Post subject: Re: Heart of Wolverine
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:25 pm 

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Wolfs wrote:
add 0.25 cb for each harpoint for total of 5% cb when maxed HoW and 1% deadly strike for each hardpoint for a total of 20% ;D... also add the inmune to physical to it for a little more survivality
With the return of cb on many items and ber getting slight buff would be too much. Would be like adding CB to hard pointed smite. DS is the same story, too easy to hit 100% DS. Making it phys immune removes any strategy to it. If it got phys immune why not oak and SoB as well? Vines? I think current changes made to HoW and SoB are quite nice.

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 Post subject: Re: Heart of Wolverine
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 3:40 pm 
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kwikster wrote:
Wolfs wrote:
add 0.25 cb for each harpoint for total of 5% cb when maxed HoW and 1% deadly strike for each hardpoint for a total of 20% ;D... also add the inmune to physical to it for a little more survivality
With the return of cb on many items and ber getting slight buff would be too much. Would be like adding CB to hard pointed smite. DS is the same story, too easy to hit 100% DS. Making it phys immune removes any strategy to it. If it got phys immune why not oak and SoB as well? Vines? I think current changes made to HoW and SoB are quite nice.


no one will still use HoW over oak.. and if you people feel it gives too much, remmenber that everylife buff got nerfed and most people will just go oak for 5k life buff over 20% dr they could easy get from gear and not from HoW. Cb is not getting a return.. now intead of max 5% cb on gear you get around 8%...


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 Post subject: Re: Heart of Wolverine
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 5:37 pm 
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Admittedly yes life is quite a prestigious mod. If the people playing melees had any sense though they'd realize that HOW does has its advantages (if I'm not mistaken its started turning Prescot into a HOW believer with this very test patch since there was actually a situation where it helped him more than oak).


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 Post subject: Re: Heart of Wolverine
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 5:47 pm 
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Wolfs wrote:
no one will still use HoW over oak.. and if you people feel it gives too much, remmenber that everylife buff got nerfed and most people will just go oak for 5k life buff over 20% dr they could easy get from gear and not from HoW. Cb is not getting a return.. now intead of max 5% cb on gear you get around 8%...


aaaaaaaaaaand everyone forgets that HoW also grants a big defence boost meaning you get hit around half as much, gives a damage boost so you deal more damage, gives you a very nice AR boost so you don't have to worry about AR GC's (meaning more space for life charms) and an extra 20% DR when amped can be the difference between getting 1 shot and taking medium damage.

If you don't want to use it, then don't use it. You ain't the first person to completely ignore effective HP and focus on what is displayed on your lying char screen.

I use HoW over oak on melee druids already so "nobody" is wrong.
Who says you have to only max 1 spirit though? You can max 2 or ever all 3 if you like and still be effective. Why do people always act like the damage loss from not maxing a melee attack skill is a big deal. 3 soft str points = the damage bonus 99% of attack skills give per level. It's hardly game breaking to skip them and max a second spirit so you have an awesome HoW/SoB to run when you encounter another druid.

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 Post subject: Re: Heart of Wolverine
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 6:04 pm 
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I believe im one of the few people on HU that use HoW over oak, and playing both HC and SC most people whine about it, HoW as it is, before any changes its a good skill. But damage aint all, w/o ds or cb, mauler hardly harm act bosses and even worst, hardly leech with over 25% leech and good dmg, This was a thing i discussed on forum few months ago, wasnt sure why the heck my druid wasnt dealing dmg, and or leeching with amp, max fps, etc. But lack of cb and ds was the problem, mainly, only the succesfull deadly strikes and crushing blows apport a decent leech and or dmg.

No one is saying that DR% isnt handy or good, its nice, but that 5% cb wont hurt or make OP the builds or the skill.

whats the crushing blow on tomb reaver? none, and sacrificing those precious sockets makes it reach 3% cb (atm) and the deadly strike? freaking none....

and dont come with history that you or one of ur friends had one with no problems... thats the answer for all the stuff i get from people here. mine didnt had problems also, but we talk about stuff that can be fixed or stuff that isnt all right.


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 Post subject: Re: Heart of Wolverine
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 9:14 pm 
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35% DS has already been added back to Tomb Reaver. All of the suggestions you've made thus far are from the current live patch and NUMEROUS issues have been addressed including DS/CB being added back on to a lot of things.

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 Post subject: Re: Heart of Wolverine
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:12 am 
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LockDown wrote:
35% DS has already been added back to Tomb Reaver. All of the suggestions you've made thus far are from the current live patch and NUMEROUS issues have been addressed including DS/CB being added back on to a lot of things.


good to know, but even in that case that 5% cb wont hurt or break anything. :|


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 Post subject: Re: Heart of Wolverine
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:51 am 
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5% cb wont hurt anything? What about a druid summoner + skele mancer with 37 summons between them all with cb...

Maul gets critical strike now too so no need for even more since its been raised on gear too.

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 Post subject: Re: Heart of Wolverine
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:42 pm 
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PureRage-DoD wrote:
5% cb wont hurt anything? What about a druid summoner + skele mancer with 37 summons between them all with cb...

Maul gets critical strike now too so no need for even more since its been raised on gear too.


me bad... wasnt thinking about the summon getting the bonus... but one questtion, do they really manage to even hit bosses like diablo meph or baal?

or is it possible to avoid the HoW to add to minions and just to chars...?


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 Post subject: Re: Heart of Wolverine
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 6:17 pm 
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There is a monster flag (summons are monsters) that allows a monster to be immune to auras. However this is immunity to all helpful and harmful auras (meaning summons can't be hurt by enemy conviction and they can't be helped by fanata either). While this particular monster flag is a potencial solution it does far more harm than good probably.


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 Post subject: Re: Heart of Wolverine
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:36 pm 
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Baerk wrote:
There is a monster flag (summons are monsters) that allows a monster to be immune to auras. However this is immunity to all helpful and harmful auras (meaning summons can't be hurt by enemy conviction and they can't be helped by fanata either). While this particular monster flag is a potencial solution it does far more harm than good probably.


Here i find a valid issue to refute my idea, it could have been nice to me at least to add that cb on HoW. Oh, well :)


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 Post subject: Re: Heart of Wolverine
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 8:41 am 
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You could do it for SS druids only.

create a dummy stat and ad it to the HoW aura.

On werewolf and bear form skills, add crushing blow stat to them with the calc being:

(stat('dummy_stat'.accr)>0)?5:0

if the dummy stat is on the player, werewolf and bear form get a bonus 5% crushing blow.

You could have it increase by ading a formula to the dumy stat on HoW (something like blvl/4) so it gets 1 per 4 hard points.

Then change the forumla on bear/wolf to stat('dummy_stat'.accr).

That would give the wolf/bear form 1% cb per 4 hard points in HoW while HoW is active.It wouldn't effect anyone else or any summons either.

Still, I don't thing CB from skills is a good idea.

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 Post subject: Re: Heart of Wolverine
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 9:43 am 
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That CB ontop of a druid using a ribcracker would get out of hand fairly fast.

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 Post subject: Re: Heart of Wolverine
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 5:47 pm 
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One more problem with Purerage's idea unfortunately. The CB bonus would stay for the entire shift even if the HOW died. The HOW would only have to be present at the time of shifting into were form for the druid to have the bonus for the entire duration of the shift. It's a hard coded peculiarity of buff/passive mechanics that prevents some ideas from working as they should.


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