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 Post subject: Spear and Polearm RW rework
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:20 am 

Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:27 am
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The main concern I have on these are the speed.

I have a spear barb. On barbs you need 60% ias to hit 4 frame WW on your weapon. Only weapon IAS matters nothing else.

Now this runeword you need to make it on eth warpike for it to be able to outshine other weapons in damage.

War pike has base speed of 15 so 70-15 = 55 This is 5 short the 4 frame break point and it only hits 6 frame. This means it does 50% less damage/leech compared to other choices like uniqe war pike. So the speed should be increased IMO.

And RW for Druids would have to have 150 IAS to be able to compete with uniqes.

I think the majority of the people that use these RWs are Barbs and druids let mek now if i'm wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: Spear and Polearm RW rework
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:39 am 
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blue_myriddn wrote:
Hatred IAS increased to 90% (polearm class)
Vengeance IAS increased to 80% (spear class)

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4162

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 Post subject: Re: Spear and Polearm RW rework
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:30 am 
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incidentally, your math is a little wrong on the damage

The difference between a 6 frame and 4 frame attack is only 50% if the weapons do the same damage. That isn't the case with a zod runeword made in an ETH weapon. The Eth modifier will create a much larger base dmg. I would estimate you are loosing more like 20% of the dmg, or perhaps even just breaking even. Likewise, allowing zod runewords to hit the max breakpoint in the best end game items isn't just giving them a 50% boost over comparable uniques, it is more like a 70-80% boost, which is why I didn't do it in the first place. Given the rarity of runes though, I figured it was fine to make the zod runewords devastating more powerful than the comparable uniques.

For anyone not following the IAS breakpoints on Whilrwind, I made a table on them a while ago here:
http://blue.arimyth.com/AttackSpeed.html

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 Post subject: Re: Spear and Polearm RW rework
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:44 am 

Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:27 am
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blue_myriddn wrote:
incidentally, your math is a little wrong on the damage

The difference between a 6 frame and 4 frame attack is only 50% if the weapons do the same damage. That isn't the case with a zod runeword made in an ETH weapon. The Eth modifier will create a much larger base dmg. I would estimate you are loosing more like 20% of the dmg, or perhaps even just breaking even. Likewise, allowing zod runewords to hit the max breakpoint in the best end game items isn't just giving them a 50% boost over comparable uniques, it is more like a 70-80% boost, which is why I didn't do it in the first place. Given the rarity of runes though, I figured it was fine to make the zod runewords devastating more powerful than the comparable uniques.

For anyone not following the IAS breakpoints on Whilrwind, I made a table on them a while ago here:
http://blue.arimyth.com/AttackSpeed.html


When i said 50% i was only comparing the speed... Of course other parts of the weapon will effect the damage. But it looks like the changes are being made anyway! The zod runewords are the best items in the game for many classes. (fire/cold druids for example)


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 Post subject: Re: Spear and Polearm RW rework
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:05 am 
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titaniumbaby wrote:
When i said 50% i was only comparing the speed... Of course other parts of the weapon will effect the damage. But it looks like the changes are being made anyway! The zod runewords are the best items in the game for many classes. (fire/cold druids for example)

Funny you mention them, as they were identified as problem items because they were SO much better than the other options out there.

That is the type of thing that I try to avoid even with things like Zod runewords. Having them be better is obvious, but having them being overwhelmingly better than other items in the game can be a real problem. I am very concerned about introducing items that create that large disparity for characters similar to what happened with Armageddon & Valor.

Moving from a 560% ED non-eth Warpike (steelpillar) to a 550% eth Warpike with lvl20 concentration (Vengeance) should be ok, but I am still a little cautious about it.

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 Post subject: Re: Spear and Polearm RW rework
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:14 am 

Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:27 am
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Sounds good I'll check it out once I find a zod :)


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 Post subject: Re: Spear and Polearm RW rework
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:25 pm 
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The damage won't be comparable if they're hitting the max break point. If you want max frames use a faster weapon. One Zod shouldn't mean end all. Take War for example Zod Cham Ber Jah what it does for what you use makes sense. A level 20 conc gives
Enhanced Damage: 280
Chance Uninterruptible: 69
On top of the Eth Bonus and 565% ED (15% Sup bonus)

Upping the IAS will lead us to another situation where you have ONE end game weapon.

Rolled a Vengence on Hero Editor for comparison
Steel Pillar
Damage: 420-1260 (630-1890 ETH hits 2011 with 50 ED Jewel which was the best I could gamble at the time)
Vengence
Damage : 682-2047
Then take into account the conc aura from the weapon gives it 9k in terms of damage (on screen). Of course if the Steel Pillar is eth you're adding at most 60% more ed if you don't want it to break. The its a 9k damage leap from the best unique to a runeword. It may not seem much better but how many perfect Eth Steel Pillars drop? Auto hitting the last breakpoint seems a bit much.

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 Post subject: Re: Spear and Polearm RW rework
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:58 pm 
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Switch ohm with ber, for 1%cb. Weapon will be overpowered as much as it can be but well. IDC.
btw. is that shield with 20lvl might gonna be with BER only? That's 300% ed on a3 merc. I feel like doing max HoW, might shield and tomb reaver fury druid.


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 Post subject: Re: Spear and Polearm RW rework
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:05 pm 

Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:27 am
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Steel wrote:
Switch ohm with ber, for 1%cb. Weapon will be overpowered as much as it can be but well. IDC.
btw. is that shield with 20lvl might gonna be with BER only? That's 300% ed on a3 merc. I feel like doing max HoW, might shield and tomb reaver fury druid.


What do you mean? are you saying put shield on A3 merc? why not put it on a2 offensive merc with might?


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 Post subject: Re: Spear and Polearm RW rework
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:12 pm 
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it's 20lvl when equipped (adds nothing to a2 off mercs, they have 25+lvl might already) and why getting phys merc on phys chars... other than aura bitches on dexzons.


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 Post subject: Re: Spear and Polearm RW rework
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:28 pm 
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The other problem I have is for the best possible damage spear it's only 95/95 with the Eth property stat wise to equip it. Opposed to 160/90 Eth.

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