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 Post subject: war cry magic damage synergy/blade of arreat
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:32 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:45 am
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should be berserk not battle cry. starts off at 5% at level one, increasing 1% per hard point 1% per 3 soft points, so lvl 20 its 25 % phys dmg converted to magic dmg. maybe be able to do something to bosses that way? or a tapering effect so its a total of 40% phys converted to magic ?>

battle cry is useless for party play w/ a necro since any curse overrides it anyway so from what ive seen, amp decrep lr

blade of arreat should grant some physical pierce perhaps?
or introduce physical pierce facets if possible? to help meele


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 Post subject: Re: war cry magic damage synergy/blade of arreat
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:48 pm 

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Adding more pierces is not the answer to phys dmg chars woes. All it will do is add another element to bring into balance. I know people don't like depending on a necro, but why not this is a "team" based mod. Some want to remove the phys res from MC's and give a bit of leech form bosses. Why now? It's been like this for sometime. No, what should happen is amp start at say 35~40% and scale up at 1% per 2 hard points and 1% per 3~4 soft points. Same goes for LR and conv. If anything passive pierces could then be reduced a bit to curb abuse.

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 Post subject: Re: war cry magic damage synergy/blade of arreat
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:38 pm 
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Firstly, I find that Battle Cry(and b.o.arreat) is a huge important piece to running around solo with a WC barb due to extra tanking. Ofc it's useless in a party like you said..

WC barbs typically have a lot of life (mine hits 17k easy at lvl 85), and with caster gear they usually come with a lot of mdr (I'm sitting at around 70 without any huge effort). They kill trash really easily with around 14k WC dmg.. I think if they were able to kill bosses like sorcs they would be unbalanced. That's not to say I think that they shouldn't be able to at LEAST dmg the bosses by lowering their physical immunity to a point that doesn't require a necro, but even if that was done the counters would cause more harm than your dmg done.

and as discussed in other threads, physical pierce isn't the answer. Elemental pierce is available because elemental immunes and resists are much more common. The real issue here is the boss charms, which is being looked into (I think). Adding physical pierce would add another layer of balance to look at and would complicate things like Kwikster said.

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 Post subject: Re: war cry magic damage synergy/blade of arreat
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 7:42 am 

Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:15 pm
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slappyNuts wrote:
. The real issue here is the boss charms, which is being looked into (I think).
Truthfully, I'm against that and I'll explain. Lowering the phys res of MC's as is being discussed has one unseen effect. Act bosses would become too easy to solo. Why? simple. Example hell Andy. Her base phys res is 75% and the MC adds 45% giving her 120%. She doesn't spawn as phys immune meaning amp works at 100% effect, the 1/5th penalty applies only if displays as phys immune same as all other elements. Now, factor in atma's ammy with ctc lvl3 amp(27% phys pierce). Lowering her to the base of 75% minus the 27% from atmas equals 48% phys res. Now, reverting amp back to previous lvls and she still has 50% phys res, but would require a necro to do this. Thus, making it tougher for a melee build to solo her. The idea is to prevent easy soloing of act bosses.

IMO, amp, lr and conviction got nerfed a bit too hard, reducing some chars abilities. I also feel passive ele pierces need toned down quite a bit. To say a cap of 50% or close to that. Reason? Hell Andy has the following res:Fire 90, cold 90, light 90 poison 125. As it stands only poison is immune. But, with 100% pierce (easily gotten) her fire, cold and light can be made negatives without and outside help. By reducing passive pierces you can still do dmg, but at a lesser rate unless you get help from lr or conviction.

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 Post subject: Re: war cry magic damage synergy/blade of arreat
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 2:06 pm 
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without lowering mc on act bosses to a total of at least 99% physical resist, physical damage dealers would have to resort to amp/decrep to do any damage period, it wouldnt matter if amp was restored to its previous numbers, it would still be required for physical damage dealers to do any damage.

i like slappy's idea for blade of arreat to have some - enemy physical resist (or any other skill) as there isnt an aura that applies that, that is if it is possible.

because there isnt any -physical resist on gear, with boss charm andy would still have over 100 for each element, but pierce still works enabling elemental builds to still function properly.


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 Post subject: Re: war cry magic damage synergy/blade of arreat
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:12 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:15 pm
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Think like this. We give BoA passive phys pierce, and a barb is wearing atma's. If the MC is set to say 99% and BoA gives -25% pierce then atma's kicking for another -27% pierce. Her end phys res is 47%. That would make a barb have the ability to solo her relatively easily. The idea is to have chars need other chars to participate even if it's as a duo.

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As multiplayer is the prime focus here, Solo play in the sense of progressing onward is not recommended. Solo play is used mainly as a means of treasure hunting, catching up in experience or refining gear and skills… Those purely interested in solo play will find a huge obstacle in bosses, as they were designed mainly for multiplayer combat…
I recommend 3-6 players for the full mod.

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 Post subject: Re: war cry magic damage synergy/blade of arreat
PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:13 am 
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Quote:
If the MC is set to say 99%

you are mistaken act bosses' regular resist with monster charms resist. the bosses get an initial resist, then pierce is applied, then monster charm is added. or were you saying at a total of 99 resist?


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 Post subject: Re: war cry magic damage synergy/blade of arreat
PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 8:30 am 

Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:45 am
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"i like slappy's idea for blade of arreat to have some - enemy physical resist (or any other skill) as there isnt an aura that applies that, that is if it is possible."

i posted this in the first post unless he posted it in some other thread before me that im not aware of?

blinkyvx "blade of arreat should grant some physical pierce perhaps?"


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 Post subject: Re: war cry magic damage synergy/blade of arreat
PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 4:56 pm 
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well i do recall someone posting it before hand, and i never gave the idea any thought until slappy raised it up again. so sorry if i sounded like it was only his idea to begin with.


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 Post subject: Re: war cry magic damage synergy/blade of arreat
PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 5:37 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:15 pm
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Hflame wrote:
Quote:
If the MC is set to say 99%

you are mistaken act bosses' regular resist with monster charms resist. the bosses get an initial resist, then pierce is applied, then monster charm is added. or were you saying at a total of 99 resist?
Sorry I ms-spoke there. I meant 99% total phys res. The rest of my point is still valid though. The premise of the mods original design is to make it extremely tough to pass act bosses solo. It is my opinion that reducing the MC's phys res would allow certain act bosses to be solo'd much too easy. Especially if the other part of the convo I read there is implemented and drain effectiveness is also altered giving melee chars to ability to actually leech them. That was something else steel had discussed in that same thread.

While I do agree phys dmg chars have been severely hurt this patch. This idea would significantly benefit one class primarily, the barb. The only reason I'm speaking against this is to keep needing a team the main focus.

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 Post subject: Re: war cry magic damage synergy/blade of arreat
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:31 am 

Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 3:16 am
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Why u just dont lower the physical resist. The bosses will still be fucking hard to be killed. If they spawn with Iron skin just exit the game.


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 Post subject: Re: war cry magic damage synergy/blade of arreat
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:25 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:15 pm
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tase wrote:
Why u just dont lower the physical resist. The bosses will still be fucking hard to be killed. If they spawn with Iron skin just exit the game.
Fact is act bosses like Andy have a set way to spawn. Example with her is base 75% phys res, 45% from the MC. All spawning with iron skin would do is raise her defense (and possibly giving some dr%)and have no effect on phys res. One thing that has become blatantly clear this patch is SSing act bosses is the method many employ to circumvent the changes this patch brought.

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 Post subject: Re: war cry magic damage synergy/blade of arreat
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:00 pm 
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She can't spawn with any additional mods (unlike sub bosses who can)

You would have to spawn her as a superunique version to get additional mods on her.

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 Post subject: Re: war cry magic damage synergy/blade of arreat
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:07 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:15 pm
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Thought that was the case but wasn't 100% sure on it. Thanks for clarifying it.

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