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Do you should like to change Firewall looks?
Poll ended at Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:24 am
Yes, I should like to change Firewall looks to 1. idea 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Yes, I should like to change Firewall looks to 2. idea 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Yes, but I have other idea, I write it at down. 25%  25%  [ 1 ]
No, doesn't change Firewall! This is superfluous 75%  75%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 4
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 Post subject: Firewall replace
PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:04 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:55 pm
Posts: 46
Hi, i have some skill idea in place of Firewall.

I make'd a simple sample on my visualization.
[attachment=]Firewall replace.JPG[/attachment]
These are my ideas. Please post your opninion.
3. and 4. idea are failure'd


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Firewall replace.JPG
Firewall replace.JPG [ 23.01 KiB | Viewed 3068 times ]


Last edited by Striker on Sun Feb 20, 2011 9:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Firewall replace
PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:12 pm 
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Thanks for the visualizations. Options (1) and (2) appear to have the same features as FrostNova and Nova (although I recognize that (2) would be standing flames and not an expanding ring), option (3) seems almost identical to Meteor, option (4) looks similar to Armageddon. I can see the value behind (1) and (2), since these ideas are similar to making a fire option for already existing ice and lightning options, but keep in mind that (2) can already be implemented by using Blaze while running in a circle. It might be more interesting to consider this fire skill on a Druid because he has no skills that function like Nova currently. I think (3) does not contribute anything new to the sorc fire tree, so would not recommend it. I think (4) is worth discussing from the viewpoint of, "The fire Druid has skills with FeatureSet_1, so let's make the fire sorc have a clone of Armageddon but using synergy skills with features that do not match FeatureSet_1. This way we have two distinct fire builds that essentially share one skill."

What are the main reasons for replacing FireWall? If the change is only for the sake of changing things, then people should seek novel ideas. If the change is to correct a flaw in FWall, then state the flaw clearly so that people can agree on a solution.

It's a good idea to review the features of FWall, Inferno, and Blaze, since those skills currently synergize together, and are designed to overcome the weaknesses of each other. Considering this is a good way to ensure the current balance of skills in the sorc Fire tree is not broken.

FireWall
1) Can be placed anywhere, but extends only until a non-walkable tile is hit (or range is reached).
2) Extends in a line perpendicular to the player and placement point (i.e. if the player is the center of a circle, and the point of FWall placement is on the edge of the circle, then the line of FWall is tangent to the circle).
3) Damage is not terrible, but nothing exciting.
4) Does not follow a moving target (this is fine when playing with a Tank-style party member, or enemy archers).
5) Takes only a moment to place (i.e. you can cast and then immediately run away).
6) High mana cost.

Inferno
1) Can be placed anywhere.
2) Extends from the player to the point of placement (i.e. the line of Inferno is always perpendicular to the line of FWall).
3) Damage is not terrible, but nothing exciting.
4) Does not follow a moving target moving tangentially relative to the player, but does "follow" a target that is approaching the player (this is the normal case when playing solo).
5) Player must be locked into position while casting (i.e. if you run away then the spell stops).
6) Medium mana cost.
7) Is only blocked by walls.

Blaze
1) Can only be placed at positions where the player moves through (it is placed at the feet).
2) Damage stacks with itself, FWall, and other fire-patch DPS spells (i.e. running over the same spot again and again will create the highest damage in D2), so the damage is excellent.
3) Takes time (about 30 seconds) to build up the damage.
4) Takes no time to place (once cast, you can run for a while (about 30 seconds) without recasting).
5) Very low mana cost.

Given the features above, the main benefit of FWall is it's ability to be placed anywhere while on the run (unlike Blaze's placement at the feet, or Inferno's locking the player's moves). It's main penalty is the high mana cost for damage that isn't very exciting.

Since your options all appear to be placed only at the player, rather than anywhere, I would not recommend them in place of FWall because then this build loses the main benefit of FWall. If your option (4) were more like a fire-element Blizzard clone, then it could replace FWall easily, but it would not be much different from Meteor (so it would be easier to just add Meteor as a synergy to Blaze and Inferno, rather than make a new skill).

Summary
1) The options in your visualization do not appear to be a good replacement for FWall, so people should first discuss changing the dependance of Blaze and Inferno from FWall to Meteor. This releases FWall for editing.
2) There needs to be more discussion about why any changes are being proposed. Is there a problem with FWall that is best solved by replacement?
3) If people feel that there is value in discussing a fire-nova sorc (or druid) build, then I could see that discussion being productive. Personally, I'd go with option (1) then, since it's pretty.
4) If people feel that there is value in discussing an armageddon-sorc build meant to be different from the armageddon-druid build, then I could see that discussion being productive.


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 Post subject: Re: Firewall replace
PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:56 am 
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I want to change the FW because I want the tree to have a place damage, beause the FW like this is for no use and the damage is low , the time is short and while I wanna put the second FW the first almost dissapears.


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 Post subject: Re: Firewall replace
PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 9:16 am 
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I'm actually using firewall for any static target (ranged attakers, some bosses also, casting inferno during cooldown of wall), so if any change have to occur it have to fullfill this function imo. I think wall is ok, augmenting its duration or damage very slightly could be good tho.

-voted don't change, nb ideas tho Striker.

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Last edited by Dieu on Sun Feb 20, 2011 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Firewall replace
PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 6:19 pm 

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why not make it into a missile with knock back like baals cold nova, its a sweet skill ie flame nova/wave

circle hardly hits anything, lazarus's one is sorta cool though

baals meteor shower is simply awesome, but will probably lag a lot


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 Post subject: Re: Firewall replace
PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 1:09 pm 

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I personally love Lazurus' attack, its a fire alternative to nova and frost nova. I think because inferno can be used more successfully and more often via assassin traps, i think making it take the place of the sorceresses inferno makes more sense.


However I do think Blinkies idea of making firewall a knockback attack, but i think instead of that I think Firewall should be a little wider, to do more damage, and when creatures pass it they enter an area where they are slowed. This way we dont have another fireball/bolt attack, we give another alternative to the build.


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 Post subject: Re: Firewall replace
PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 1:56 pm 
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Wow great idea on firewall Skyla I want that now!(a bit overpowered tho)
I like inferno as it is now tho, so id be really deceived to lose that skill.

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 Post subject: Re: Firewall replace
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:33 am 
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a combination of 1 and 2 for fun:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zc4MWBQmh00

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 Post subject: Re: Firewall replace
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:53 am 
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why shiny pots

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 Post subject: Re: Firewall replace
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:00 am 
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what shiny pots?

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 Post subject: Re: Firewall replace
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:25 am 
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the things on the ground? assuming they were pots since it appeared to be red/blue aura on them

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 Post subject: Re: Firewall replace
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 12:17 pm 
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ah, well they are kinda pots but you dont actually pick them up, you get healed for a small amount mana/life when you run through them (potion replacements).

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 Post subject: Re: Firewall replace
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 12:21 pm 
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reminds me of console rpgs but how does that translate to bosses ? since most of the console versions have some kind of heal or healing items?

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 Post subject: Re: Firewall replace
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 12:24 pm 
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they spawn randomly from bosses.

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 Post subject: Re: Firewall replace
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 12:34 pm 
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well now that is interesting.
is the game potion free then?

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 Post subject: Re: Firewall replace
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 12:49 pm 
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something like that will be in diablo3. healing, not that fire nuke.


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 Post subject: Re: Firewall replace
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:32 pm 
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potion free yeh ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Firewall replace
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:26 pm 
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PureRage-DoD wrote:
potion free yeh ;)

gonna suck too - I don't like what the idiot devs over at D3 are doing with the potion model.

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 Post subject: Re: Firewall replace
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:29 pm 
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I'm not tracking every d3 information but I believe pots are still in game, but less common, orbs just to replenish after few mobs. Did they remove pots entirely ?


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 Post subject: Re: Firewall replace
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:34 pm 
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rough summary here: http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/Potions

clusterfuck ideas seem to include: "The Potions hotbar has been replaced by the Skills hotbar" If that means you can't hotkey access potions, that's just crazy.

Sounds like they are trying to replace player controlled health regeneration (pushing a button get get health back) with game developer controlled health regeneration (you have to wait for a monster to drop a health orb)

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 Post subject: Re: Firewall replace
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:09 pm 
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just a question concerning the blaze tree... how good is inferno?

Firewall doesnt seem to make sense with blaze since both do similar things, but one is a better ranged spell and one does 100000x more damage.

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 Post subject: Re: Firewall replace
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:03 am 

Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:38 am
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What about a blizzard style armageddon like attack?


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 Post subject: Re: Firewall replace
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:32 am 

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i always thought sorc should have a meteor storm type skill, or a lightning storm to an actual storm that hit multiple targets at a slighty faster rate


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