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 Post subject: Mabey get a change to Ik, Mavs and Tals sets?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:45 pm 
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We done away with the wep from from Ald's set to give it more play for caster durids and ss durids that want a 2h wep.

Why not do the same for:
Tals set: let the person pick staff or orb and shield?
Can use boots here to replace orb.
Mavs set: this would be nice to have and use with a pike zon or even a java zon? Can replace bow with bots as well.
Ik set: This is the toughest one outa the 3. Cause what to do if we take maul away. Only things are rings or ammy? Ring imo would be best, but ik maul is used often for mercs. And how would we make up for all the ele stast ik maul is given with the set?

Just started to think about it. Would like to know what everyone thought about the idea and what all stats and such we would put on the new peices to make the set. But would that be to much as to take away for only sorc's usin tals and only zon's usin mavs???

Would be something we can work on mabey for next patch?


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 Post subject: Re: Mabey get a change to Ik, Mavs and Tals sets?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:56 pm 
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problem with that is, then they are no longer class specific. both zons class items are weapons (spear and bow) and sorcs only have the orb.

I'd LOVE some spearzon class specific sets. Same for staffs but you would have to make a sorc only staff (only a 2 min job to make a new item type) or change the highest staff for each tier be class specific (then arcannas becomes aclass specific set too)

I'd like to see the lownecro sets revamped too (sanders/infernal) and incorporate necro heads into them.

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 Post subject: Re: Mabey get a change to Ik, Mavs and Tals sets?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:22 pm 
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I had idea in mind you could do, New gloves or boots class specific that could only be made by cube or just like regulars drops, with nice goodies like +magic/bow/spear always. Could be also only elite drop. But it was too late to suggest before reset. That way you could ditch bow and have boots instead of that.


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 Post subject: Re: Mabey get a change to Ik, Mavs and Tals sets?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:51 am 
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Perhaps for mavina, make the full set bonus for 4 parts instead of 5, remove some partial bonus from other items and add them to the bow with the "(5 parts equipped)" mod, so this way it could worth use the bow even if you get the full set bonus with only 4 parts.

Melee amas just wont use bow and have the set bonus with 4 parts and use a pike. If its possible it a nice idea i believe ^^


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 Post subject: Re: Mabey get a change to Ik, Mavs and Tals sets?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 1:12 pm 

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Id like Mavs armor revamped, wouldnt mind seeing a spearzon/javazon set :P


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 Post subject: Re: Mabey get a change to Ik, Mavs and Tals sets?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:46 pm 

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I had an idea about this before. Dont know if its possible. Why not add like a balrog blade and axe to ik and leave the set bonus at six? Same for zon items and sorc. Would be harder for sorc but i dont see many builds using +8 to sorc skill set unless its for shits and giggles. Thanks for reading


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 Post subject: Re: Mabey get a change to Ik, Mavs and Tals sets?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 6:49 pm 

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How is that a problem? The sets give to the class it's meant for, not all skills, so it really doesn't make much of a difference. What druid would wear full tals if you had the staff instead?


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 Post subject: Re: Mabey get a change to Ik, Mavs and Tals sets?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:40 am 

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I do agree with this. I believe now that Blue is in charge.. there should be no reason for not having constant changes. It's new content that will keep this mod alive and that being said.. editing sets etc. should be expected and the idea makes sense. (Kinda went off topic.. lol..)

But the possibility with sets is probably endless.. there's so many more sets that could be added, edited etc. The hard part is balancing them and getting someone to do it and before ANYTHING is even considered.. you have to get Blue's approval.. and I assume that is the most difficult part.

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 Post subject: Re: Mabey get a change to Ik, Mavs and Tals sets?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 1:14 pm 

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Balancing items aren't actually all that hard.

I think the early sets could easily be altered to be more useful. A lot of items in this game falter because they try to cover a few different builds instead of a niche role.

Another problem is sockets. If it's not on par with the sockets of the best gear in the game it's hardly even viable.

Other things that could be good simply aren't because of the outrageous requirements. Sigons for example is too hard to use because you invest too much in strength early on for it. An easy fix would be a +30 strength buff on the gloves and a -50% req mod to bring it down to something more manageable.

An example of why current sets are bad:
Aldurs: Aside from it's stats not being on par, it's trying to be the jack of all trades. The armor gives +1 SS, the set bonuses give +1 summons and +1 elemental. The +skills should be balanced around +druid, and if you really wanted a +elemental(or ss/summon) you could have one of the items - armor for example - roll +2 SS/summon/Ele.

Sets need to focus on single things, not everything. You can't have something good at everything. Templars is good on a lot of characters, but it's useless on melee classes over other items(elemental zealots, etc aside).

Awhile back the early sets were given buffs, but the mid-level ones were simply left in the dust in terms of usefulness. Angelics gives +3 for a 4 item set at 27(iirc) where as a level 60 set gives +3.

I feel as though sets should cover a niche role, some classes can actually have all of their things covered in a single set(sorc for example), where as others would have a harder time doing so. I'd gladly help with numbers and ideas, I'm relatively good at balancing and have a strong grasp of what classes need in the game. But it just seems like a waste of time unless it's actually going to get used.


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 Post subject: Re: Mabey get a change to Ik, Mavs and Tals sets?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:13 pm 

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Angel wrote:
Balancing items aren't actually all that hard.
Hmm, looked at this patch much? Still think balance is easy? Well it would be easier if those doing balancing would actually take suggestions into consideration from time to time. Some items that were decent last patch got nerfed into the ground, while others got buffed into a whole nother realm.

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 Post subject: Re: Mabey get a change to Ik, Mavs and Tals sets?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 1:06 am 
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there should be a post like that put somewhare and every time someone wants to repeat themselves they could just link it. I'm sick of seeing "new posts" only to discover its the same old shit.

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 Post subject: Re: Mabey get a change to Ik, Mavs and Tals sets?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:12 am 
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Lee wrote:
I believe now that Blue is in charge...

I never got that memo. Soulmancer is still in charge.

Even if I was though, I wouldn't ever do content updates more frequently than every 6 months. Any faster than that is too short of a balance and ladder cycle.

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 Post subject: Re: Mabey get a change to Ik, Mavs and Tals sets?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:18 am 
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If people want this stuff, sure - go ahead and post out full details of items.

Personally I think it makes more sense to have new sets. Here are some names and associated items that I came up with for new sets, but never got around to finishing and balancing:

The Mountain Lord (Barb lvl40 Set)
The Mountain's Peak Avenger Guard (move IK helm to Conqueror Crown)
lvl5 Defiance when equipped
Granite Enclosure Full Plate Armor +400% Defense
The Mountain's Cleft (Gothic Axe) 5% Crushing Blow
Granite's Guard Plated Belt
+10 Stone Skin
Hit slows target 20%
Dmg reduced by 15%
Slow attack speed, reduced hit recovery and run/walk speed

Pangs of Passion: Throwing barb set
Uldyssian Unrest
Siggard Sorrow


Esu's Lessons (Sorceress Set)
Shelter of Smoke Ghost Armor [40]
Clarity of Mind Circlet (move Naj to Coronet)[45]
Truth's Light Orb (Dragon Stone aka Jared Stone)
Wisdom's Steps Demonhide Boots (move Rite of Passage to Wyrmhide Boots)[40]

Athulua's Wardrobe
SerpentSkin Armor [42]
Maiden Javelin [25]
Ring
Sharkskin Boots [45] (+20% psn dmg with 3 items)

Mage Hunter's Trappings
Helm?
Trellised Armor [46]
War Hat [40]
Claw (Hand Scythe) [46]

The Demon's Darling (Necro)
Cloak of Utumno (Demonhide Armor [44])
Demon's Fingernail (Petrified Wand)
Severed Trophy (Demon Head [40])
Gothmog's Hand (Demonhide Gloves [40])

Fiacala's Furnishings
Nature's Embrace Linked Mail [48]
Fiacala's ThunderStorm Great Maul
Fiacala's Determination Spirit Mask [40]
Primeval Bindings Demonhide Sash [40]

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 Post subject: Re: Mabey get a change to Ik, Mavs and Tals sets?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 2:49 pm 

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Why make new sets when there are sets no one touches?

For example, lachdanan's relics is a set I've literally never seen used. It's just a big time useless set. You could edit it to spawn rings which have 10 pierce, an amulet with +1 skills and 5-10% damage for the elements, and then the set bonus when completed gives +2 skills and some resistances. Similar to elemental set, but not as hardcore, meant to be used early on until the +2 amulets kick in and actual craft gear is possible on rings.


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 Post subject: Re: Mabey get a change to Ik, Mavs and Tals sets?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 3:18 pm 
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Angel wrote:
Why make new sets when there are sets no one touches?

For example, lachdanan's relics is a set I've literally never seen used. It's just a big time useless set. You could edit it to spawn rings which have 10 pierce, an amulet with +1 skills and 5-10% damage for the elements, and then the set bonus when completed gives +2 skills and some resistances. Similar to elemental set, but not as hardcore, meant to be used early on until the +2 amulets kick in and actual craft gear is possible on rings.

Lachdanan's is a great set that does a massive amount of elemental damage (+100-200 for each element). Outstanding for any sort of elemental damage paladin.

Just because you haven't ever used it doesn't mean it isn't balanced.

The only set that is questionable is Heaven's Brethren. While it isn't really bad, it is sort of hard to figure out something useful to do with the darn thing. Sort of a jack of all trades.

Balance doesnt' just mean making items good by your standards, you need to encompass the entire community's playstyle. Some items will be worthless for one group of players (such as Lachdanan's being worthless to you) and wonderful for others. Having item diversity means you can have player diversity.

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 Post subject: Re: Mabey get a change to Ik, Mavs and Tals sets?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:24 pm 

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Not good on elemental paladins at all.
5 pierce
+2 all skills

Where as you could get
+3 all skills and more pierce from a weapon with more sockets like rake scar.


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 Post subject: Re: Mabey get a change to Ik, Mavs and Tals sets?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:55 pm 
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sure - there are other options, that's a good thing rather than a bad thing.
Personally, I would probably go for a little fewer skills and more all around gear from the full set, but there certainly would be nothing wrong with going with the Rakescar or even StormEye if you want.

Choices is a sign of items being balanced. When there is one clear winner, that's where things get a little dull.

Lachdanan's most certainly isn't the "best" option, but it is a good option and it doesn't perform all that much worse than the best options. You could prboably take a good chunk of time and craft an elemental weapon, quad socket up some armor and maybe you would want some rare amulet with +1 pala and some str/dex to conserve your points for vit. Or you could use the Loyalty runeword... or you could craft an elemental amulet..etc, etc. etc

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 Post subject: Re: Mabey get a change to Ik, Mavs and Tals sets?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:46 am 
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Arcanna's set - whole set is kinda worse than leaf/storm/thunder.
These are ~20 level rws in staffs - since you can easily buy white items in a1/a2(past a3 white items aren't spawned @vendors due to blizz coding) - remove +3all skill from them. +9 charged bolt staff outshines everything till 60lvl.


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 Post subject: Re: Mabey get a change to Ik, Mavs and Tals sets?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:49 am 
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I like arcannas, nice chunk of PDR/MDR, regen, mana, fcr. I always use it if i can when playing untwinked. Leaf etc are crap if you don't find any other gear with fcr.

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 Post subject: Re: Mabey get a change to Ik, Mavs and Tals sets?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:44 pm 

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Arcannas is pretty decent because of the 20 mdr/pdr.

There are other sets that just blow cock though.


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 Post subject: Re: Mabey get a change to Ik, Mavs and Tals sets?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:30 am 
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Sorc fcr table for non lightning spells:
Code:
Frames 13   12   11   10   9   8   7
FCR 0    9    20    37    63    105    200

Full arcana gives you 20pdr/mdr, prolly max res, 65fcr, 4skills, 3socks and free rings, belt, gloves, boots.
pdr/mdr comes from armor which you can switch for heaven's garb(light armor, same as arcana's armor, lvl 38 vs 35) that provides 15mdr +1skill, res and 20fcr.
Heaven's garb + arcana amu alone is 30fcr, add one of these rws, tarn helm lenymo and magefists and you have +13skills, 65fcr, 15mdr. All of that can be found in a3 - or heaven's garb in early a4. I'm not saying Arcana is bad, just it lacks some firepower compared to these rws, just remove +3 all from them. With arcana you can probably hit 105fcr, without it 63fcr, it's +13skills vs +6skills, + rings with skill.


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 Post subject: Re: Mabey get a change to Ik, Mavs and Tals sets?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:42 am 
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who spends long enough in act 3 norm to farm for all that stuff though? also, 3 open sockets on arcannas weap means you can gem socket it for pierce. You are also not taking the resists into account, or the PDR (really handy vs diablo's attacks)

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outshines everything till 60lvl.

That was all i was disputing. Maybe for pure firepower and making the numbers on the char screen go up. Cast rate is crap, resists are crap, and they dont even boost your mana. +9 to a spells level so early in the game causes you to run out of mana twice as fast against a boss. I'd rather take arcannas at that level.

Maybe they could do with a nerf. I don't really care though, i never use them past level 25 really.

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 Post subject: Re: Mabey get a change to Ik, Mavs and Tals sets?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:57 am 
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Quote:
Maybe for pure firepower and making the numbers on the char screen go up.
Yeah. But I don't have much experience with sorcs. Made chain lightning this season, she's like @ 32k chain atm around 90lvl. For first part of the game I used +9charged bolt staff and it was spectacular, mana costs of charged is like 3x time less than CL, with any magic ring +4mana after kill I was able to spam them, lol.
Quote:
You are also not taking the resists into account, or the PDR (really handy vs diablo's attacks)
PDR matters only for his lightning damage, doesn't it? It's 50/50 light/phys. You need more mdr for him, unless you want to tank him with a sorc. With free head you can quad sock or triple sock if you're low on these any magic cap and put diamonds, Arcana hat can have only 1 with x socket which untwinked it's really time consuming to get - Quads drop in wsk ?
Quote:
who spends long enough in act 3 norm to farm for all that stuff though?
This ladder I found lenymo in a1, magefists from random chest @council spire, tarn probably from random mob. Heaven's garb probably in a4 rws champs. I didn't have full arcana so I bet it's easier to get these than full arcana or it's just a matter of luck as always. I'd use arcana too for its res vs mephisto and use custom gear for everything else.

Anyway it went offtopick so don't bother replying to that :P


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 Post subject: Re: Mabey get a change to Ik, Mavs and Tals sets?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 6:15 am 
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it's what you prefer really. Chain light would be the exception to the rule for the cast rate. (i have a few gripes with chain light i`ll address in another topic later)

It depends on your luck. At the start of the season we found 1 set of mages first run through a3, never found another set for ages and ages.

Quote:
PDR matters only for his lightning damage, doesn't it? It's 50/50 light/phys.

DiabWall (big firestorm) has a physical component too, its pretty bad when your amped, since PDR kicks in before amp is applied it can negate it before it even reaches resists.

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 Post subject: Re: Mabey get a change to Ik, Mavs and Tals sets?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:30 am 
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id agree that finding the uniques is far easier untwinked than getting full arcanna's set together. amulet alone is troublesome since you can roll 3? 4 different set amulets around that level?
and gems for pierce would also take a long time to farm up at lower levels. not gonna have 3 flawless of ur choice for ur staff at lvl 33

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 Post subject: Re: Mabey get a change to Ik, Mavs and Tals sets?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:40 am 
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Zikur wrote:
amulet alone is troublesome since you can roll 3? 4 different set amulets around that level?

i'd be down with swapping out that amulet as there are an asston of set amulets. I'd swap it for some other item, but every item is already being taken up by other sets (belt, boots, gloves). Could either make it a ring or simply make the set a 3 piece set.

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 Post subject: Re: Mabey get a change to Ik, Mavs and Tals sets?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:45 am 
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I have better luck finding the set than I do finding a unique setup that can keep my res maxed and provide such high mana/MDR/PDR. I'm not into farming though, it's boring as shit.

as far as swapping the amulet, I'd be fine with that. Maybe make it a belt orboots, there areenough set rings and amulets.

I'd rather see cathans get a little love over arcanna's. The only thing that I've ever used in that set are the rings on a melee (kinda backwards). Maybe make it an orb, shield, ring and armor set and give it a little lift so it's a half decent choice for a sorc.

Thats a 1 sided view of the set though. Maybe some folks make good use of it, but whenever I've tried it on a low sorc, I've been very dissapointed.

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 Post subject: Re: Mabey get a change to Ik, Mavs and Tals sets?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:56 am 
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true - I suppose you could have 2 sets of low set boots on the same item, but all low boots are currently being used. same with gloves and belts.

Ya - Cathan's sucks. Other than Lachdanan's, the low sets were mostly untouched this last patch since Soulmancer rebalanced them all in 1.21z and I didn't want to redo his work.

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 Post subject: Re: Mabey get a change to Ik, Mavs and Tals sets?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:32 pm 
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cathans can use a rework for sure. it would be interesting to use some low lvl sorc orbs for sets.
i dont know how you can reliably get all of arcanna's without farming. all i ever see is armors and skull caps. i found 1 stave this round.

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 Post subject: Re: Mabey get a change to Ik, Mavs and Tals sets?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 1:41 pm 
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i got the amulet in a1 from tobial, the staff in act 2 as a random drop in lost city, helm from the smith and the armor dropped in early a4.I think the armor can drop at the council but i didn't have any luck on them. Summoner is a good one to run for the staff if you really need it.

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