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 Post subject: anti rushing
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 5:05 am 

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can this be added into the patch?

if a char completes the act3 mephisto boss quest then he cannot enter a game with the act1 andy quest open.

if a char completes the act4 diablo quest then he cannot enter a game with the act2 duriel quest open.

also keep the already made by blue if you complete act5 baal quest then you can't join a normal game with act5 baal open.

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 Post subject: Re: anti rushing
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 9:43 am 

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beating baal for yourself, then rejoining another baal game for exp or item finding is not the same thing as rushing.

and yes rushing at a point where you can do nothing but leech off others and die from a stray arrow is very sad but technically, do they hurt anyone?


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 Post subject: Re: anti rushing
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 10:13 am 

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hfown wrote:
beating baal for yourself, then rejoining another baal game for exp or item finding is not the same thing as rushing.

and yes rushing at a point where you can do nothing but leech off others and die from a stray arrow is very sad but technically, do they hurt anyone?


generally if someone beats baal then they won't want to train for exp or item finding in act5 again but rather would train and exp find in act1 nightmare or hell.

but i guess if you beat baal in hell then this anti rushing thing could present a problem.

also you can still join baal games just not when the quest is open. you can create a baal game or join one that has the quest closed and do the exp and item finding.

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 Post subject: Re: anti rushing
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 12:58 pm 
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Well could present a few problems muling but not hard to get around.

Could stop HC players from loading a safety char to clear a body too to get loot. Which is not a problem in hell i spose.

Now you will need a norm/nm/hell boer as well. Chanters would be USELESS even as time limited as they are now would stop anyone from making one.

Also if someone got to a5 norm/nm and wasn't on for the quest he would then have to wait for another team? I understand that this would motivate more teams but it could still strand you for a good long time.

worst case I think this would lead to more rushing...build your boss killer/support char and rush your secondary chars by...

Re-implementing flags would stop a lot of it. Even then it slows the whole process down which is what you are really after.

A1 you have to walk through (flags will add countess and remove bm tp for lower levels)
A2 you can skip completely (flags will make it more time consuming and at a minimum you beat the altar and summoner)
A3 you have to walk through (flags will add flail requirement and bosses)
A4 you have to walk through (flags will add hf dragon which can be a pain to find)
A5 you can skip completely (flags will force a walk through and implement one of the hardest parts of the quests imo "ancients" not to mention ancients way with the chargers).

All in all I think the flags make rushing SLOWER and thus not as beneficial as it is now...That is all you are really trying to do is slow the process down as you will NEVER be able to remove it completely.

Also as time goes on after reset and less people are here playing removing them after some set period of time would keep people here in my opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: anti rushing
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 3:06 pm 
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Quote:
Well could present a few problems muling but not hard to get around.

what probs with muling? you just make a norm game with your high char first then bring the mule in.

Quote:
Now you will need a norm/nm/hell boer as well.

good, i dont think it'll e worth it with the shorted bo duration though so that won't be a problem anyway

Quote:
Chanters would be USELESS even as time limited as they are now would stop anyone from making one.

Any build that is only good for rushing lowbies has problems anyway.

Just puting flags back in won't stop anything just make it take 5-10 mins longer per act. only takes a high level maybe 4 mins to find and kill the countess, 10 mins to find and kill ardy and summoner, 5 mins on the council and 5 mins to find the forge.

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 Post subject: Re: anti rushing
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 3:30 pm 

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Bob908 wrote:
Also if someone got to a5 norm/nm and wasn't on for the quest he would then have to wait for another team? I understand that this would motivate more teams but it could still strand you for a good long time.


you make a good point with this. it would suck geting stuck.

but also at the same time everyone will be correct levels no rushers at all. and baal is hard to kill with out anyone rushing you so your party will be bigger in most cases. and also baal takes along time to kill so people will be given alot of time to get online for the baal quest.

but again is it worth it adding into the patch? geting stranded would suck and the person stranded would end up rushing other people to act5 to help him. i know this because i was stranded in act5 before and i ended up being stuck for soo long i rushed about 11 people to act5 to help me lol.

if this mod had tons of people online then this anti rushing thing would be ok.

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 Post subject: Re: anti rushing
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 4:06 pm 
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There is something that is being forgotten here. There will be less people getting stranded because more teams will be formed instead of getting rushed and leaving these people behind. If someone does get left behind, chances are there will be another group at the same point or almost the same point. The reason people get stranded is rushing, not the other way around.

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 Post subject: Re: anti rushing
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 6:27 pm 
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PureRage-DoD wrote:
There is something that is being forgotten here. There will be less people getting stranded because more teams will be formed instead of getting rushed and leaving these people behind. If someone does get left behind, chances are there will be another group at the same point or almost the same point. The reason people get stranded is rushing, not the other way around.



Yess ur right kevin!! :mrgreen: They will be more groups, but the question is how many of these groups will let a newbie into there group??


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 Post subject: Re: anti rushing
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 6:38 pm 
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Still wont stop anyone from rushing...There will always be a way.

level some baal/minion killers...then get to baal...knock down to 95% dead and then exit...have rest of party kill last sliver...people will work around whatever is set up so it doesn't really matter.

If you want to make it harder to rush then fix the a3 flail glitch and a2 opener glitch. Rushing is more of a necessity on HC in my opinion just for untimely deaths lol. SC no one should ever need it.

Either way there is an older post on the forums with this topic that has all the arguments there...check that out...heck i even started it...

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1743

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 Post subject: Re: anti rushing
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 9:10 pm 
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the biggest and mooooooooooooooooooooost significant thing that is being missed is that rushing wont happen as sooon as the first group hits nm/hell or w.e
it will take time to twink a high end nm support char to rush the act. and more importantly being rushed by a lvl 88 or w.e in nm isnt THAT big of a deal when ur in a5 since its atleast around the same lvl nd if skillers are increased to a lvl unreachable in nm or w/e. same can be said in normal. although a lvl 60 can dominate most of the difficulty it wouldnt be soooooo swinging in the baal fight. however if you really need help in normal...

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 Post subject: Re: anti rushing
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 10:12 pm 
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level some baal/minion killers...then get to baal...knock down to 95% dead and then exit...have rest of party kill last sliver...people will work around whatever is set up so it doesn't really matter.

and anyone is free to do that if they want, it shouldn't be harder for people wanting to not be rushed and play in a party to find a party than it is for someone who want's to cheat and use cheap tactics to get past it.

Like you said, it's still possible to rush if you want but expect to spend the time making those chars. No matter how good they are, they will still need the help of the team to kill baal so I don't see any issue here.

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 Post subject: Re: anti rushing
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 11:02 pm 
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PureRage-DoD wrote:
Quote:
level some baal/minion killers...then get to baal...knock down to 95% dead and then exit...have rest of party kill last sliver...people will work around whatever is set up so it doesn't really matter.

and anyone is free to do that if they want, it shouldn't be harder for people wanting to not be rushed and play in a party to find a party than it is for someone who want's to cheat and use cheap tactics to get past it.

Like you said, it's still possible to rush if you want but expect to spend the time making those chars. No matter how good they are, they will still need the help of the team to kill baal so I don't see any issue here.

EXACTLY!!!11111111111111111111!!

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 Post subject: Re: anti rushing
PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:14 pm 
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Bob908 wrote:
Re-implementing flags would stop a lot of it. Even then it slows the whole process down which is what you are really after.

A1 you have to walk through (flags will add countess and remove bm tp for lower levels)
A2 you can skip completely (flags will make it more time consuming and at a minimum you beat the altar and summoner)
A3 you have to walk through (flags will add flail requirement and bosses)
A4 you have to walk through (flags will add hf dragon which can be a pain to find)
A5 you can skip completely (flags will force a walk through and implement one of the hardest parts of the quests imo "ancients" not to mention ancients way with the chargers).
iso reimplementation of those Q flags asap.

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 Post subject: Re: anti rushing
PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:37 pm 

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dont need help to kill baal lol. unless a minion is psn immune in hell then you just need a friend to help who has blades.i am of course speaking where the current ladder is at. but at a new one ya would need help.

hell i was in the second group to get to nm and if we didnt have a psn zon [drappedpsn or somethign name] it never would have happened


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 Post subject: Re: anti rushing
PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:53 pm 
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Dieu wrote:
iso reimplementation of those Q flags asap.

already done. I put them back in with patch 1.3

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 Post subject: Re: anti rushing
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:29 am 
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the current ladder is 1.3 is it not? cause there are certainly no flags. a2 and a3 can be completed in record time with a couple dedicated chars.

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 Post subject: Re: anti rushing
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:38 am 
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Zikur wrote:
the current ladder is 1.3 is it not? cause there are certainly no flags. a2 and a3 can be completed in record time with a couple dedicated chars.

incorrect. there are flags on the portal in this patch (1.3)
There are still ways to bypass those restrictions using bugs, but the flags are there.

Example - try to enter a portal in A2 when you haven't done the altar smash quest and you will run in to the Quest flag. Same thing with the portal to Mephisto if you haven't killed the council. In the previous patch, you didn't need those. I changed that back.

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 Post subject: Re: anti rushing
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:54 am 
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what about the summoner flag where you cant enter tomb? and i was pretty sure u needed flail quest - not council before.

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 Post subject: Re: anti rushing
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:56 am 
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Zikur wrote:
what about the summoner flag where you cant enter tomb? and i was pretty sure u needed flail quest - not council before.


Or the Countess quest flag for Andariel.

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 Post subject: Re: anti rushing
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 3:45 am 
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Quote:
Example - try to enter a portal in A2 when you haven't done the altar smash quest and you will run in to the Quest flag. Same thing with the portal to Mephisto if you haven't killed the council. In the previous patch, you didn't need those. I changed that back.
That requires more fixing. For example you can enter tp in "true tomb", but portal to prev(to where statue was) location you can't - seems like it was a mistake. That what Zikur mentioned - Tomb opener makes a game, see a symbol, join with uber char, kill statue, get tp there, all go in. If flag was there they would need to go from Palace cellar not dying as they couldn't go back with tp in sanc without aldural.
Also for flail quest this one is tricky - you can either set it to kill council or destroy orb - not both. In each way you can skip it with higher chars - Transfering parts or killing council with uber char. Maybe boost council member stats? For me they were always easier than hatestorm ;/.

Tp to Andariel connected to Countess quest? Hm, I remember when people just ran 5 levels down, lure her and get orb. Maybe completing Cain quest? or Q2 Bloodraven? That actually is more challenging than q4. IMO ofc.

Diablo connected to Izual quest? Purgatory lvl2 crashes game but it's better than hellforge as people want runes as the reward.


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 Post subject: Re: anti rushing
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 8:45 am 
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Zikur wrote:
what about the summoner flag where you cant enter tomb? and i was pretty sure u needed flail quest - not council before.

Sure, if someone wants to tweak them further.
The limit of my ability without screwing things up was to take the settings Soulmancer had in an earlier patch and simply replicate them. I was just a monkey - monkey see, monkey do. That was the safest way for me to get it implemented quickly and without bugs.

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 Post subject: Re: anti rushing
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:14 am 

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the prob with hellforge in hell is everyone wants to do it solo, to get their own HR as only one dorps. now if one dropped for every person in the party who needed the quest that'd be different. in norm and nm its just lame runes anyway so wouldnt be a prob


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 Post subject: Re: anti rushing
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:03 am 
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blue_myriddn wrote:
Zikur wrote:
what about the summoner flag where you cant enter tomb? and i was pretty sure u needed flail quest - not council before.

Sure, if someone wants to tweak them further.
The limit of my ability without screwing things up was to take the settings Soulmancer had in an earlier patch and simply replicate them. I was just a monkey - monkey see, monkey do. That was the safest way for me to get it implemented quickly and without bugs.

but it is past ladders i am speaking of. council was not required to get to meph before. its silly to let flail quest get skipped.

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 Post subject: Re: anti rushing
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:05 am 
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ok - tell me what in the code is different now compared to previous ladders?
I know of know way to "force" teh full flail quest other than what I did.

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 Post subject: Re: anti rushing
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 5:08 pm 
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well i dont know how to read the code but i dont think i am dreaming up the fact that i had to load my chars in the past so they all get the flail quest and not have to worry about getting council on past ladders.
or am i?

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 Post subject: Re: anti rushing
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 5:37 pm 
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you are talking to the wrong guy about how to rush mass groups of characters through the game. I generally prefer to get the parts, fuse the flail and move forward unless I am with a group who is going to use shortcuts and then I just follow along with them.

Seems like the scam most people use now is to get a high lvl character to create a game so they can get the wp and bypass the smashy all together. That is a scam though and not a problem with teh coding.

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 Post subject: Re: anti rushing
PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 3:24 am 
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Quote:
Seems like the scam most people use now is to get a high lvl character to create a game so they can get the wp and bypass the smashy all together. That is a scam though and not a problem with teh coding.
Zikur's saying last ladder you needed flail quest completed to enter Mithria's tp, now Council Quest.And there's also problem with the coding in a2 true tomb tp which don't have any quest flag.


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 Post subject: Re: anti rushing
PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 11:24 am 
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ah - ya, for sure those numbers might have gotten messed as I just took what was done before and put it back in. Soulmancer would be the best person to fix that kinda stuff

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 Post subject: Re: anti rushing
PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:04 pm 
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blue_myriddn wrote:
ah - ya, for sure those numbers might have gotten messed as I just took what was done before and put it back in. Soulmancer would be the best person to fix that kinda stuff
Act 2 - Lower Talrasha(193) in levels.txt is missing its flag.


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 Post subject: Re: anti rushing
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:45 pm 
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Steel wrote:
Quote:
Seems like the scam most people use now is to get a high lvl character to create a game so they can get the wp and bypass the smashy all together. That is a scam though and not a problem with teh coding.
Zikur's saying last ladder you needed flail quest completed to enter Mithria's tp, now Council Quest.And there's also problem with the coding in a2 true tomb tp which don't have any quest flag.

thankkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk yooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooou

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 Post subject: Re: anti rushing
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:57 pm 
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well why didn't he just say that then :P

I didn't really notice as I am not a rusher - as I said, I thought I was putting back whatever flags Soulmancer had in place.

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 Post subject: Re: anti rushing
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:42 pm 
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did.

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 Post subject: Re: anti rushing
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:38 pm 
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and it should be said that while you *thought* you put all the flags back in place - you would accept no evidence to the contrary.

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 Post subject: Re: anti rushing
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:03 pm 
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no. i put the flags back. I didn't think that I put them back, I opened up the files and put them back.

*this is a dumb conversation*

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 Post subject: Re: anti rushing
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:25 am 
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no, you thought everything was just as it was. i said it wasn't.
Dieu wrote:
Bob908 wrote:
Re-implementing flags would stop a lot of it. Even then it slows the whole process down which is what you are really after.

A1 you have to walk through (flags will add countess and remove bm tp for lower levels)
A2 you can skip completely (flags will make it more time consuming and at a minimum you beat the altar and summoner)
A3 you have to walk through (flags will add flail requirement and bosses)
A4 you have to walk through (flags will add hf dragon which can be a pain to find)
A5 you can skip completely (flags will force a walk through and implement one of the hardest parts of the quests imo "ancients" not to mention ancients way with the chargers).
iso reimplementation of those Q flags asap.


blue_myriddn wrote:
already done. I put them back in with patch 1.3


Zikur wrote:
the current ladder is 1.3 is it not? cause there are certainly no flags. a2 and a3 can be completed in record time with a couple dedicated chars.


blue_myriddn wrote:
incorrect. there are flags on the portal in this patch (1.3)
There are still ways to bypass those restrictions using bugs, but the flags are there.
[/u


ppl said exactly what flags were missing but because you put 'the flags' back in. they were all wrong and you were just ignorant because you are 'not a rusher.' No, you actually just ignored the input that was given in this thread because you [u]thought you put them back in. even the best of us make mistakes though, yeah?

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 Post subject: Re: anti rushing
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:00 am 
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I don't understand why you have this desire to be an asshole. Do I some how strike you as someone you want to be a dick too? I moderate the forum, cleaning up the spammers on a daily basis. I run an amazingly detailed information page for this mod. I even took the time out to put in a patch to fix issues I felt were important and incorporate any changes that the community felt were important. What do I get from you in return? Nitpick dickish posts.

I am reading your quotes and here is what I see:

Dieu wrote:
iso reimplementation of those Q flags asap.

I saw this post and responded that I had already reimplemented quest flags after they were 100% removed in patch 1.21z

hence:
blue_myriddn wrote:
already done. I put them back in with patch 1.3


Zikur wrote:
the current ladder is 1.3 is it not? cause there are certainly no flags.

You responded with this. Which is incorrect. There are flags. In 1.21z, there were no flags, but in 1.3 there are flags. I know this for 2 reasons [1] I put them there. [2] when people try to enter a portal before completing a quest, they cannot.

So the answer to your quote above is EXACTLY what I said:
blue_myriddn wrote:
incorrect. there are flags on the portal in this patch (1.3) There are still ways to bypass those restrictions using bugs, but the flags are there.


To repeat:
Zikur - there are no flags.
blue - yes, there are flags

Which one is true and which one is false?

Apparently there are errors in the flags that were put in. No problem, next patch that can be fixed. I would have loved it if Soulmancer had jumped in last patch and fixed it, but he didn't - so you were stuck with me doing it. I don't know jack shit about this modding code, so it really doesn't surprise me that I got it wrong here and there with stuff like quest flags.

Now - explain to me again why you feel this urgent need to be such a complete asshat towards me when all I do around here is be helpful?

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 Post subject: Re: anti rushing
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:09 pm 
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you are blowing this way outa proportion. Just cause I didnt accurately address the issue in the first place. yes i know there are flags
hence saying that it is now required that INSTEAD of flail - you require council to enter mythia. Clearly I understand there are flags.
All I'm saying is I made it clear which flags were missing (or atleast two of them) in a2 and a3 and you dismiss it as scamming/rushing shenanigans.

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 Post subject: Re: anti rushing
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:18 am 
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viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2630 - just add it to that list.Can be helpful when time for changes comes


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 Post subject: Re: anti rushing
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 4:37 pm 

Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:35 pm
Posts: 177
Zikur wrote:
you are blowing this way outa proportion. Just cause I didnt accurately address the issue in the first place. yes i know there are flags
hence saying that it is now required that INSTEAD of flail - you require council to enter mythia. Clearly I understand there are flags.
All I'm saying is I made it clear which flags were missing (or atleast two of them) in a2 and a3 and you dismiss it as scamming/rushing shenanigans.

here is the real problem it is that the rush thing is glitch not a hack so what can u do about other than say no thank you i dont want to be rushed which is all there should be to it but the same ppl like blue who said in nother poost he dont agree with it but he has followed along even when there was flags rushing still happens it was just at different points in the game so what do u want there will always be a work around no matter the measures put in place so why cry that the flag are different from before its a change of pace from what u knew so what now u know this new work around and the gods and everyone on the forum knows i dont agree with blue's changes for this patch but at this point it is pointless to keep posting the same shit rasta wanna to be or what git over it play the game have the most fun u can in a bad situtation


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 Post subject: Re: anti rushing
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 4:26 am 

Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:21 am
Posts: 103
Punctuation marks are symbols that indicate the structure and organization of written language, as well as intonation and pauses to be observed when reading aloud.
In written English, punctuation is vital to disambiguate the meaning of sentences.


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 Post subject: Re: anti rushing
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 6:08 am 

Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:35 pm
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Draped wrote:
Punctuation marks are symbols that indicate the structure and organization of written language, as well as intonation and pauses to be observed when reading aloud.
In written English, punctuation is vital to disambiguate the meaning of sentences.

That what I love about this dam place if they cant knock the logic they will knock the punctuation or the spelling. Its not like I'm writing a deposition for a court case !!!!!!!! Or Anything else of importance.


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 Post subject: Re: anti rushing
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 5:12 pm 
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it is common courtesy to have some punctuation so the readers wont have to re-read everything and guess where sentences end.


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 Post subject: Re: anti rushing
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 6:26 pm 
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i was pointing out where the flags were missing. then it turned into bitching. i see no reason why it shouldnt be restored. being able to skip flail entirely is absurd. whats the point of the ss spider? (not that it matters this patch since phys dps is well...) act 3 should consist of more than a run from town to travincal.

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 Post subject: Re: anti rushing
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:22 am 
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Draped wrote:
Punctuation marks are symbols that indicate the structure and organization of written language, as well as intonation and pauses to be observed when reading aloud.
In written English, punctuation is vital to disambiguate the meaning of sentences.


Fuck off

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blue_myriddn wrote:
This patch is probably the best balance HU has seen in a long time.

Abominae wrote:
@Blue
Hmmm.... Sometimes I believe your logic is on another fucked up plane of existence.


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 Post subject: Re: anti rushing
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:47 pm 

Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 3:50 pm
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Maybe quests should be completable if a person 20+ levels above you or something is in the party or if you do 0 or some low % of damage to the boss.


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 Post subject: Re: anti rushing
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:44 am 

Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 2:31 pm
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That also affects people who tank instead of doing damage.


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 Post subject: Re: anti rushing
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:08 am 

Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:21 am
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Rasta wrote:
Draped wrote:
Punctuation marks are symbols that indicate the structure and organization of written language, as well as intonation and pauses to be observed when reading aloud.
In written English, punctuation is vital to disambiguate the meaning of sentences.

Fuck off

No offense was intended, and I'm no grammar nazi, but come on, that nine line long single sentence post was just plain undecipherable.


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 Post subject: Re: anti rushing
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:28 pm 
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Draped wrote:
Rasta wrote:
Draped wrote:
Punctuation marks are symbols that indicate the structure and organization of written language, as well as intonation and pauses to be observed when reading aloud.
In written English, punctuation is vital to disambiguate the meaning of sentences.

Fuck off

No offense was intended, and I'm no grammar nazi, but come on, that nine line long single sentence post was just plain undecipherable.


oh

neways on topic,

for real, anti rushing would be fine if melees weren't worthless end of story.

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blue_myriddn wrote:
This patch is probably the best balance HU has seen in a long time.

Abominae wrote:
@Blue
Hmmm.... Sometimes I believe your logic is on another fucked up plane of existence.


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