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 Post subject: my thoughts on patch
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:24 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:51 pm
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heres my opinion on this patch.

General adjustments:
1. Spawn remains the same and is not increased to 4 spawn
good

2. Grand Charm skillers are replaced with Soulstone skill charms. the details of which are found here: http://blue.arimyth.com/charms.html Soulstones are a Carry 1 item and don't drop every time you face a Hell boss.
looks cool but it's kind of pointless also i don't know how people get all these skillers doesn't it take ages to farm them? im lucky to find 1 skiller that im looking for while all the rest are crap ones +1 barb skills etc


3. Crushing blow reduced to a 1% chance of occurring on 2h weapons. For a paladin attacking at least at 5 FPA (which is 5 attacks per second), this means they will deliver a crushing blow about once every 20 seconds. For barbs/druids who often attack at 4 FPA (which is 6.25 attacks per second) they will deliver a crushing blow once every 16 seconds.
good crushing blow is rigged. this will make people need high damage to kill a boss now. and this does hurt my low damage,tanking+concivtion aura paladin that uses 1 hand zeal and life steal but im sure he's still useful with out crushing blow.

4. Portals now have quest requirements returned to them to reduce rushing
it might back fire people may get left behind and become annoyed

5. A character that has completed the Normal (Nightmare as well) Baal quest cannot --JOIN-- a game that has the quest open. These characters can still --CREATE-- Normal (and Nightmare) games though.
so my hell char can no longer help the newbies get into nightmare? do you know how often this happens? this will be a good move against rushing :)

6. Ability to gain strength from items is greatly diminished. So players can either choose between great end game gear or lots of life.
you know my barb got 300 hard points into str so he can do high damage with IK set. IK set gives good defence and easy to get and i would put 3 soul skulls and 1 uber amathest into the weapon for uber life steal. i also made a super high STR and life steal druid. but then iron maiden was added into the game and i would die in 1 hit going all that str.
Edit: ops nevermind im not 100% if i got 300 HARD points into str but after counting from my old screen shots it seems like i just got 250-280. =/ and im fairly sure my IK helm had x3 uber topaz but i also had one with x3 uber amethyst. and i can't remember which one i was wearing. but since my hp is so low im fairly sure i had the topaz one on

7. Other item changes here: http://blue.arimyth.com/helms.html , http://blue.arimyth.com/Crafting-patch.html , http://blue.arimyth.com/gems.html and http://blue.arimyth.com/aldurswatchtower.html
havn't looked at all the items. but im all for for makeing crap items useful. have you ever tried to make a spear WW barb? every spear from normal to hell sucks ass he has zero weapon options the whole game. fixing things like this would be nice.

Skill Changes:

PureRage_DoD has been working on and implemented the following skill changes:

Necro
1 skeleton at 1 hard point, 2 at 2 hard points, then 1 more for every 2 points, capping at 11 skeles and 11 mages.
Poison Strike no longer spawns a cloud
CE now has double the mana cost and a 1 sec cooldown
Pierce values on lr/amp have been changed to 1% per hard point and 1% per 4 soft points.
Blades no longer block paths
Summons AI Delay has been halved
Mages life gains actually work now
awesome change. posion necros are way overpowerd. but now should be ok.

Druid
Spirit wolves are capped at 3
Dire wolves capped at 2
Lycanthropy gains 4%life per level instead of 5%
Ravens damage has been buffed greatly. You gain 1 raven at level 1, 1 more at 10 hard points and a final raven at 20 hard points.
The damage gains get better at higher skill levels so test with some + skills
moultenboulder: synergys changed (10%phys-volvano, armageddon & fissure) (12%fire with firestorm) Gains 1 extra boulder when maxed
Fissure: synergys changed (10% syn with firestorm, Volcano & moulten Boulder)
armageddon: doubled missiles splash radius
Volcano: reduced missile radius from 6 to 4
Summons AI Delay has been halved
more awesome changes now maybe someone will make a spell caster druid thats not just the physical element tornado things

Barb
Increased stamina reduced to 4% per level.
Frenzy now gives 1%dr per hard point and is included in the self buff portion of the skill. Duration increased to 20 secs
Masterys now start at 12% critical strike at level 1 and cap at 50% at 20 hard points in the skill.
Grim Ward now summons a single blade with an aura that reduces enemys def by 25% (12 yard radius)
can this blade tank and stuff? make sure you can't spam grim ward or els it will be absued to tank bosses also 25% lower def? thats not very useful.


Sin
Claw Mastery now gains 10% AR per hard point in Venom
Fade now yields 1% DR per hard point and is listed on the skill
Shadow Master won't use traps or mind blast.
Shadows AI Delay has been halved
Phoenix Strike now releases all charges at the same time
releases all charges at same time does this make phoneix strike x2 as strong? now that it can be spammed.

Zon
Impale now deals magic damage. Def will now be dropped to 0 while using impale for a fraction of a second.
Strafe had its NHD reduced to 2 from 4 (should double single target DPS)
Vlak's AI Delay has been Halved
double single target DPS? that sounds overpowerd maybe

Sorc
Icebolt missile speed increased to match firebolts
Hydra's duration increased to 24 seconds. Max number of hydra heads increased from 12 to 24
Frozen armor can be cast on friendly units
FireWall: capped at 10 yards
Blizzard: reduced radius from 7 to 4 to increase target effectiveness
7 too 4 radious will make a huge difference. it may become overpowerd. also now that sorcs can use frozen armor on allies people will want them in there party now =)

Pally
Smite now grants 1%Dr per hard point active for 5 secs after smiting
Blessed hammers no longer bypass demon and undead mag resist
Salvation now provides no absorbs but gains 1% absorb per point into each respective resist aura.
Each respective resist aura (fire, cold, and light) now provides 10 absorb to its element rather than 20.
Conviction now starts at 25% pierce gaining 1% per hard point and 1% per 4 soft points and provides the pally a 1% per 2 hard points passive pierce to each element.
Sanctuarys base magic damage increased by 20%, damage to demons is = to undeads, 20% magic pierce added to the aura
Vengeance now has a splash radius and a new overlay to go with it. Damage has been reduced by 50% but the attacked target is hit twice (splash and swing)
blessed hammer no longer by passes undead magic defence? thats way to intense why not change it to by pass 50% instead of 100%?

so here is my opinion

the skill nerfs are awesome and mostly good they balance the game out keep them. but becareful of some make sure you test them first like the zons x2 DPS.
the anti rushing is good but make sure people don't get left behind. don't make it too intense. make it a fair and easy going anti rushing one that is not tedious but is also reasonably effective if possible.

you cut the items that give resistance by too much. this is to much of a difficulty increase and not very newbie freindly. uber diamonds only give +15 to all resistance now.

all this stuff about skillers and such they are hard enough as it is to get them. people who have 5+ of there elemental skill tree of skillers farm like crazy to get them.

lowering the +STR on items is a good idea and bad idea.
it will reduce the poped corpes bug where people lose there items cause they don't got str but it will also change alot of builds. take whirlwind barbs for example they get most of there damage points from STR and not there skills except for weapons mastery deadly strike.
i think i figured out a solution to this problem though. instead of STR giveing +2% ED per point for 2 hand weapons make it +3% ED per point :) and fix the other 1 hand weapons ED and such for STR too. and the spear make it 1.5% ED from STR and 1% ED dex.

elemental absorb seems very hard to get now. and paladins auras don't give much of it either. make it so if a paladin is useing that aura you will get good resistance and absorb. remember there is still lower resistance curse the enemys can cast on you. and if you have a paladin useing a resistance aura you should make it strong enough to counter lower resistance curse. or els people will not even bother with it and just go one of the many other auras.

anyways hope my opinions can help soul mancer and the community make a decision. there is definitely things that should be kept in blues patch but some as noted i don't feel are newbie freindly enough.

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Last edited by ziggy on Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:15 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Maybe an influx of new players in the coming months.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:31 pm 
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ziggy wrote:
take whirlwind barbs for example they get most of there damage points from STR and not there skills except for weapons mastery deadly strike.
i think i figured out a solution to this problem though. instead of STR giveing +2% ED per point for 2 hand weapons make it +3% ED per point :)

I think your understanding of dmg mechanics is off base. off weapon %ED (which is what you get from str or skills) has a very small impact on overall damage. The major impacts to dmg are [a] wpn dmg [b] attack speed [c] deadly/critical strike.

Whirlwind barbs get most of their damage from their attack speed.

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 Post subject: Re: Maybe an influx of new players in the coming months.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:26 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:51 pm
Posts: 54
blue_myriddn wrote:
ziggy wrote:
take whirlwind barbs for example they get most of there damage points from STR and not there skills except for weapons mastery deadly strike.
i think i figured out a solution to this problem though. instead of STR giveing +2% ED per point for 2 hand weapons make it +3% ED per point :)

I think your understanding of dmg mechanics is off base. off weapon %ED (which is what you get from str or skills) has a very small impact on overall damage. The major impacts to dmg are [a] wpn dmg [b] attack speed [c] deadly/critical strike.

Whirlwind barbs get most of their damage from their attack speed.


ooh then what i mean is when you combind it with high STR it is much stronger. as in whirlwind skill 320% ED + masterys skill 320% ED = 640%

+ the whirlwinds speical attack speed and masterys deadly strike which is nice but still only 640% ED

2hand maul weapon.

low str barb = 150 STR = 300% ED
high str barb = 350 STR = 700% ED

low str barb = 940% with skills
high str barb = 1340% with skills
thats over 33% more damage

and my speical IK set barb has 599 STR but il just put it at 600
600 STR = 1200% ED

1840% ED with skills thats almost double the damage of a low STR pure vit barb

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 Post subject: Re: my thoughts on patch
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:39 pm 
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Moved this to the suggestions forum so the discussion could continue.

You are correct about the dmg boost, but that isn't where most of the dmg comes from. Whirlwind is a powerful skill due to its attack speed and boosting
your wpn will do a lot more for your overall dmg than boosting your strength.

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 Post subject: Re: my thoughts on patch
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:41 pm 
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OT - Could you say what's your min-max dmg on WW? my tmaul'ed wwer did 13-48k (can't say because I've lost password) on 4fpa, with eth windhammer adding +100 he did like 52k something like that, but 6fpa (as you need to zod it and can't get that 9ias), so its 100 str isn't big bonus as you lose speed. But that's the point of this Uniq If I'm correct.
I dunno dmg on IK as I found dhorn/tyrael before IK hat - luck or something?
Quote:
Whirlwind is a powerful skill due to its attack speed
! With always frozen and not putting into inc speed it's even better(you move slower doing more hits, ;p old bnet tricks!)
Quote:
releases all charges at same time does this make phoneix strike x2 as strong? now that it can be spammed.
It was my suggestion so I'll say that this build is very underpowered compared to others(not talking about fun you could have) and releasing all charges could somehow balance it - easier than beta testing every dmg change on every charge. We're talking about trash as meteo is still ok vs bosses.


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 Post subject: Re: my thoughts on patch
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:43 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:51 pm
Posts: 54
blue_myriddn wrote:
Moved this to the suggestions forum so the discussion could continue.

You are correct about the dmg boost, but that isn't where most of the dmg comes from. Whirlwind is a powerful skill due to its attack speed and boosting
your wpn will do a lot more for your overall dmg than boosting your strength.


Image

Image


i know boosting my weapons damage will boost my damage much more for example if my weapon did 2000 damage instead of 940 then i would do something like 49k damage.

the point is though when we add your patch and there being less STR then barbs and such will do less damage. and to make up for that maybe makeing STR ED% from 2% per point too 2.5 - 2.7% per point.


if a barb before the patch has 600% worth of skill ED skill ED is whirlwind lvl 30 and masterys lvl 30 and 400 STR for 800% more ED so 1400% ED. now he has this ED with no weapon. but he can choose any weapon he wants and his weapon will be calculated from it.

after the patch and much less STR skill ED 600% and only 200 STR for 400% ED and now 1000% ED thats much weaker.

i use a 1000 damage weapon with 1000% ED and i do 10k damage. i use a 1000 damage weapon with 1400% ED and i do 14k damage.

amazons can still use +30 dex gems and get all the damage bonus and equip better bows. all the amazons now will make sure to put enough hard points into STR and then just mass +30 dex gems for extra damage.

also i only put 1 point into concentrate yet it's damage is almost the same as WW edit: nevermind it had +12 from bonuses so it was lvl 13 currently

btw in the picture that is my defence with frost armor staff xD this picture is very old also the IK maul does lot's of elemental damage that it's not showing.

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 Post subject: Re: my thoughts on patch
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:09 pm 
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Thanks, that is just proving investing in str is a bad idea - I mean my barb has 13k hp(with bo, base 10k+), 42k ar, like 90k def, doing 48k max, with Kannli's conc any my merc's might I could go 70k(maybe with HoW also!!)with 130+- str, It's all about weapon you use, str is just lame stat preventing you from using gear ;/ Not talking about dex on all 2handers - this barb has 10dex and hit 42k ar with charms/%ar/amethyst :P
As for Conc - it has massive %ed compared to ww as it a single pointer.
Something challenging doesn't mean it's trivial as you want to do with str removal from items, Blue (hint, inc strbonus on all wpns, casters won't bother, melee will love)
I know there is a topic about strength but well, it's very crucial to somehow increase it.


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 Post subject: Re: my thoughts on patch
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:48 pm 

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i had 59% life steal so i basically never died and i wanted to get every last bit of damage i could. this build was also made before iron maiden curse was given to bosses. i also was able to tank diablo none stop even at low hp because my life steal was soo high.

i could easily hit 50k+ damage too with other weapons just i would lose all the IK sets defence and life steal and i would end up haveing to leave the battle instead of being in it the whole time. and there for i did much less damage.

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 Post subject: Re: my thoughts on patch
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 6:32 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:15 pm
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ziggy wrote:
heres my opinion on this patch.

General adjustments:
2. Grand Charm skillers are replaced with Soulstone skill charms. the details of which are found here: http://blue.arimyth.com/charms.html Soulstones are a Carry 1 item and don't drop every time you face a Hell boss.
looks cool but it's kind of pointless also i don't know how people get all these skillers doesn't it take ages to farm them? im lucky to find 1 skiller that im looking for while all the rest are crap ones +1 barb skills etc


3. Crushing blow reduced to a 1% chance of occurring on 2h weapons. For a paladin attacking at least at 5 FPA (which is 5 attacks per second), this means they will deliver a crushing blow about once every 20 seconds. For barbs/druids who often attack at 4 FPA (which is 6.25 attacks per second) they will deliver a crushing blow once every 16 seconds.
good crushing blow is rigged. this will make people need high damage to kill a boss now. and this does hurt my low damage,tanking+concivtion aura paladin that uses 1 hand zeal and life steal but im sure he's still useful with out crushing blow.

4. Portals now have quest requirements returned to them to reduce rushing
it might back fire people may get left behind and become annoyed

5. A character that has completed the Normal (Nightmare as well) Baal quest cannot --JOIN-- a game that has the quest open. These characters can still --CREATE-- Normal (and Nightmare) games though.
so my hell char can no longer help the newbies get into nightmare? do you know how often this happens? this will be a good move against rushing :)

7. Other item changes here: http://blue.arimyth.com/helms.html , http://blue.arimyth.com/Crafting-patch.html , http://blue.arimyth.com/gems.html and http://blue.arimyth.com/aldurswatchtower.html
havn't looked at all the items. but im all for for makeing crap items useful. have you ever tried to make a spear WW barb? every spear from normal to hell sucks ass he has zero weapon options the whole game. fixing things like this would be nice.

I'll post my thoughts.
2)Most people don't "find" skillers, the continually roll charms to get them. Some have better luck than others. Changing to the soulstone would "cap" max skills from charms, and a)level the playing field a bit and b)reduce the end game strength of certain builds i.e. meteor sorc.

3)CB being reduced is a good thing, means other chars in game need more involvement more teamwork. I like.

4)The quest requirements on portals was removed on the 1.21z update. They need to be there, it'll make people stop afking in games. No more free rides.

5)I agree with you here. Seen many times I hooked up with a crappy group and got stuck on Baal. If we all worked to get that far, why not allow a bit of help. Putting a quest requirement on Baal such as talking to Tyreal after Baal to pass current difficulty would help with rushing.

7) Most changes I like. However, I would like to see reduced strength on items, rather than complete removal.

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 Post subject: Re: my thoughts on patch
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 11:59 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:51 pm
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i really like alot of these new changes but i also understand terrys point in keeping HU mostly the same so it's newbie freindly

but atleast can we keep alot of the skill nerfs like to posion necros cause there overpowerd and to let sorcs cast frozen armor on freindly allies and remove most crushing blow.

i would wan't to keep all blues things but i compromised it in my earlier posts that mostly the lower res from items and such would be hard on newbies. if possible we could keep most blue things sept for that.

but if worst comes to worst atleast keep the nerf to posion necros and sorcs and crushing blow.

also the new summons AI looks really fun. your summons are much stronger now because there much smarter and attack much faster.

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 Post subject: Re: my thoughts on patch
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:07 pm 
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[/quote]can this blade tank and stuff? make sure you can't spam grim ward or els it will be absued to tank bosses also 25% lower def? thats not very useful.[/quote]

It is ignored by enemys and can be walked through. -25% def works on bosses too and will increased the chances to hit greatly. I would rather it caused slower run/walk of enemys too but that might be too much.

Quote:
double single target DPS? that sounds overpowerd maybe

I'm confident it won't be too much of an issue as 2 frame NHD means it's a bad idea to spam it on a countering boss.

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 Post subject: Re: my thoughts on patch
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:17 pm 
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If crush is replaced with more ed, iron maiden is going to become even more ludicrously unfair to melee characters. Is maiden going to be nerfed accordingly?


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 Post subject: Re: my thoughts on patch
PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 6:11 pm 
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i dont see how reducing resists on high end gear will effect much when skillers are going to be removed. that will leave more room for resist charms as the soul stones dont take up much room.


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 Post subject: Re: my thoughts on patch
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:00 pm 

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What reducing the res from gear will do is place greater importance on having a support pally in a group, i.e. a healadin running salvation. It won't alter party make up too much, but will alter a pally's aura selections a bit.

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