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 Post subject: Vitality Pumping
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 12:37 pm 
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Vitality Dumping
A rather simple solution could be to just simply remove strength from most items (primarily end game items) and compensate with added vitality or perhaps nothing at all.
Examples:
Anni - remove all stats and make it +life and mana or just energy and vit
Enigma - change it to 75-150 vitality on level
Items like Worldstone Granite and Dscale/Ravenlore - just simply remove the strength all together from them
Blood Crafts - change it so its not strength. 35+ str rings with 150 life and +skills +more is too good.
Soul Set- not sure what to do about that. Maybe make the helm 4 socket and remove the str/dex replace with something not so good. IDK

It would require some item revamping but would make the game a lot better.
Also Strength charms would be fine if this change was made because people could get more benefiter from using life charms and pumping strength (the whole point right?)


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 Post subject: Re: Vitality Pumping
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 12:46 pm 
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soft points in vita are not buffed by oak/bo/%life on items. soft points in vita are no substitute for actual points in it.

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 Post subject: Re: Vitality Pumping
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 12:59 pm 
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PureRage-DoD wrote:
soft points in vita are not buffed by oak/bo/%life on items. soft points in vita are no substitute for actual points in it.

I didn't say it was supposed to be an equal substitute

What would be the point in forcing people to place stat points in strength to only end up with the same amount of life if as if they had vit dumped it all.

As far as "strategic" placement of stat points goes - all this would really do anyways is make the players who give half a damn about their character plan out there endgame gear and do some napkin math to figure out how much in strength they need to place.


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 Post subject: Re: Vitality Pumping
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 1:04 pm 
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What im saying is, with the plans to buff hell difficulty alot, how do you expect player tanks to perform with less life than they have now when its easier?

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 Post subject: Re: Vitality Pumping
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 1:14 pm 
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PureRage-DoD wrote:
What im saying is, with the plans to buff hell difficulty alot, how do you expect player tanks to perform with less life than they have now when its easier?


Would allow for less damage buffing. Weaker characters = stronger monsters.

If you have a character with 30k life, you need the monster to do 15k dmg just to knock off half their life. That is 15k dmg AFTER all the resists in play. Since most smart tanks will have at least 30% physical damage reduction and 75% elemental resistance you are requiring:

physical: 21.4k
elemental 60k

In contrast if you knock the characters life down by 10K to 20k it only takes:

physical 14.2k
elemental 40k

You want the game to be more challenging? Weaken the players and that will do the trick.

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 Post subject: Re: Vitality Pumping
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 1:43 pm 
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ok then how do people beat the bosses that deal 15-20k in a single hit (korlic)

what about LoS, my pally can only JUST take 2 psy hammer blasts from the sin (these are doing around 15-16k) The druid will already steamroll any tank no matter how much life they have if he is KB immune but thats ok by me i guess.

Remember the harder bosses have curses to reduce resists etc. Good luck having any tank survive against darkness in hell.

One last point. It's taken a long time to gather the stuff to build my pally up to what he is today. Without buffs he has just over 10k life, (less than a friend of mines sword/shield barb with max block per bo/oak).

Im not saying reduce str abit but removing it altogether from high end equip is a bad idea.

Edit: chars with as much life as that pally are very rare and few and far between. He is built as a tank and designed as an LoS boss killer. Without party support he is terrible.

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 Post subject: Re: Vitality Pumping
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 1:57 pm 
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I think I am not alone in saying that there seems to be a very significant disconnect between the statements that you and others are saying. On one hand you claim that things need to be buffed. On the other hand though you are saying they shouldn't be buffed (via weakening characters).

Which one is it? Is Hell too easy or too hard?
Do boss battles need to be buffed or don't they?

My personal view is that you want things to be buffed, but buffed in a fashion that you desire. That simply doesn't make sense. We keep going higher and higher - better gear, stronger bosses, stronger characters. This spiral of excess needs to slow down. Tone down gear, leave bosses alone (and reduce the power of some) and make weaker characters.

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 Post subject: Re: Vitality Pumping
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 2:24 pm 
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You are missing the point entirely. Tanks need to be able to tank or we have aftermath. The item changes already bring down survivability with less sorbs available. Do you want tanks to be novelty builds only or do we want them to be able to hold bosses in place while dealing little damage so the higher dps builds can knock the boss down. With no cb my pally has very very little offensive capability and as such becomes a pure tank. His use would be to hold bosses in place and stop the boss healing via small hits while the ranged builds can cause damage from the back row.

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 Post subject: Re: Vitality Pumping
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 5:33 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 2:24 pm
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ah The downward spiral of balance once again :D
seems all mods hit it at a point, if the "dev" team dont understand this i think the mod is better served having those rare small patches we have now. also, easy way to make the game harder: nerf pots. pressing 1,2,3,4 every half sec is a no-brainer anyways

Also, all party lifebuffs should be nerfed imo. having a barb/drood double the hp of any party member is not encouraging a party its forcing barbs and druids into parties

and further, high stat bonus on endgame gear encourages rushing, most prefer normal suckage before hell suckage, and if your going to suck in norm you would definately be more likely to want someone to push you along..


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 Post subject: Re: Vitality Pumping
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 6:04 pm 
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lol

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 Post subject: Re: Vitality Pumping
PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 8:42 am 
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I tanked in a 2 party team to act 5 hell with 5k life. We got pwned by ancients but everything previous wasn't too bad. Maybe you have to do a little more gearing on HC but the mod is designed for SC and therefore is fine if we nerf gianormous life pools.

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 Post subject: Re: Vitality Pumping
PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 10:45 am 
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Life buffing bots has allways bean a issue here sence the start of Hu.. Making class's abit weaker isn't a bad idea... The end result is better boss fights and thinking before you leep into the battle..The fact with Bo and Oak and getting insane life is just that insane.. My Zealer has maybe 6 k life without bo and oak and he tanks just fine.. And making builds weaker just makes the game better when you really think of it.. Los would become off limits for hc .. 8-)

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 Post subject: Re: Vitality Pumping
PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 2:34 pm 
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It would be nice to be able to put stat points in strength /dexterity while lvling and still end up with the same hit points as if someone who would have previously gone all in on vit. This would eliminate the need to conjure extreme strength bugging setups and having a bunch of strength charms - effectively limiting the amount of gear options you have. That would make the game much more fun for new people or anyone who is starting out without any gear.


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 Post subject: Re: Vitality Pumping
PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 4:29 pm 
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Ya m8 true but the buff bots still need nerf .. Thats just me i guess

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