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 Post subject: General Balancing Adjustments
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 4:23 am 
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Posts: 88
Let's face it, physical damage is out of control. Here are some ideas to curb it.

A1 Physical Merc - Remove

Smite - AR Based

Amp - 21% + 1% per hard level

CB - full sets and specific uniques only, 3% for a set, 1-2% for a unique, change ber to 1% cb
10% should be the max amount of cb you can get

Others:

Skillers - Remove 1 row of inventory

Los heroes - Make them fully immune to knockback, paladin and druid aren't among others which aren't as dangerous

Bring back quest requirements for portals

Additions:

CE - 3 second cooldown, capped at 12 yards

Teleport - 1 second cooldown

Absorbs - Cut absorb% values on gear and gems by 1/10th, change salv to 5% all, and res auras to 10% absorb

Diamonds - Nerf progression to 1//2//3//4//6//8//12//15

Blessed Hammer - Remove bypass mechanic


Last edited by Sapphire Rawk on Sun May 16, 2010 1:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: General Balancing Adjustments
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 4:30 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:29 am
Posts: 526
agree with all of the above. if significant changes are not forthcoming in the next reset, be prepared to lose more of the old players. its just too easy as it is now.


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 Post subject: Re: General Balancing Adjustments
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 5:09 am 

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Well i also think that the game should be abit tougher and i totally agree with those or similar changes.


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 Post subject: Re: General Balancing Adjustments
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 7:16 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 2:24 pm
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tip: nerf lifebuffs. :D


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 Post subject: Re: General Balancing Adjustments
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 8:23 am 
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Put a cool down on ce. something like 3 secs. You just gotta look at the ladder to see how OP Ce is atm. The necro "Support" roll has now become a rapid speed farmer build who can clear any area in record time. Also, Cow level is a joke with ce spam.

Remove Absorbs from all equip (maybe leave it on gems in shields i guess). This will make the resist auras more appealing and increase team play.
As an example Hell diablo with 2 dwarfs = easy.

Nerf diamonds abit:
chipped - 1PDR/MDR
flawed - 2
normal - 3
flawless - 4
perf - 6
ss - 8
ms- 12
uber - 15
With all diamonded equip my level 80 sorc was able to tank and kill nm diablo with reds. Thats not right.

add flags back in and add a couple more. remove some tp orbs also.
Act 1 - blood raven needs to be completed to take trist tp. Revome black marsh tp
act 2 - remove all tp's except the true tomb
act 3 - put a portal in the middle of zaka fortress to get to the council with flags from chimera and sszak needed to take it.
act 5 - shenk must be done before anya, and nihla must be done to get to the dome
These and add the old quest flags back in. This would also curb rushing abit

Make all curses gain potency with hard points only radius and duration with soft points.
Make decrep slow and weaken only
Make confuse weaken enemys and reduce phys res by 1 % per hard point

Make CoS work on bosses
allow venom to be cast on party members at 33% potency
Change impale to magic damage and scale the damage down by 33%

Change hammers to basic magic damage (dont ignore demons and undeads magic res)

Nerf poison strikes duration to 2 seconds (at the same DPS). such high dps should come with some risk.
stretch the duration of poison nova by another 3 seconds but keep the damage the same (Half the DPS)

Remove thorns mercs :roll: replace with blessed aim merc (to help stuff like wwsin etc.)

Big suggestion on hydras:
they are a waste of time at the min. have a max of 12 hydras (4 casts) increase the duration by 5 secs per hard point and have them teleport with you.

Increase ar bonus on claw mastery

I have other things to add to the list im sure, i'll add more as i remember.
I also agree with the stuff in the original post.

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Last edited by PureRage-DoD on Sun May 16, 2010 8:37 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: General Balancing Adjustments
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 8:35 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 2:24 pm
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i like where youre going with hydras:) the fire tree needs a counterspam skill:) if they tele with you you cant avoid counters as easily, and by getting 3 times as many hydras will make them grind through mobs like a lawn mover, 5 sec per hard point sounds way too much tho, thats 110 sec endgame = 44? *3 hydras? 1 sec per hardpoint or simply no delay sounds fair nuff


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 Post subject: Re: General Balancing Adjustments
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 8:41 am 
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when i was 14 hydras I mean 12 of the heads. you get 12 atm if you fully stack them (3 at a time. They could use a 10%ish buff too damage wise

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 Post subject: Re: General Balancing Adjustments
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 8:46 am 

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i figured that;) and 12 head =4 hydra and dura is 10sec now correct? so 5sec per hard point =44 hydras or 132 heads
1 per point = 30 sec = 12 hydras or 36 heads
or spam ~30 hydras or 90 heads with 8fpa cast(=max? dont remember) last one is way more mana intense than first one tho


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 Post subject: Re: General Balancing Adjustments
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 8:53 am 
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yeh have 12 max though. It just means you dont have to keep recasting. (kinda like a prebuff) thinking like thunderstorm except you can plant them in one place then walk out of the way of counters.

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 Post subject: Re: General Balancing Adjustments
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 2:11 pm 
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you could probs increase that teleport cooldown to 10 secs and put a reduce cooldown by 0.5 secs per hard point on it.

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 Post subject: Re: General Balancing Adjustments
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 3:39 pm 
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i agree with proposed changes, and i would like to propose something else.

act boss fights are boring. they should be epic challenges that require teams to defeat. gone should be the days where a single character can rush a team through them all. i propose 2 things concerning bosses. all bosses get 2 unbreakable immunities and 1 weakness, and they all get one new super devastating attack that the boss rarely uses but people fear and try to avoid.

andariel poison magic weakness fire
duriel physical cold weakness magic
mephisto lightening cold weakness physical
diablo fire lightening weakness cold
baal magic poison weakness lightening
rare attacks:
andariel single target super psn that drops you to 1 hp fast unless anti used.
duriel a crushing blow earthquake that shaves % life off anyone near
mephisto something that rapes people far away rather than the tank
diablo super short range aoe fire attack that is ridiculously strong.
baal an extremely hard hitting charge! hahaha, why not :)


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 Post subject: Re: General Balancing Adjustments
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 6:25 pm 
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anyone else has an hydra sorc?... dont think so... i do.

no matter how u mega-pimp with ubber gear and skillers hydra and the strategy u use to fight etc... dmg just sux and doesnt seems to do that 20k is showing on screen.

if u want to fix the build, give more % dmg bonus from the syns (perhaps 1% or 2% more on each syn per lvl) and raise the duration 5 seconds... this way it allows to have 5 hydra 1/2 at the same time....

hydra tele with sorc... nah... sux because that kills the fun. Knowing where to place the hydras strategically and avoid the counter and mobs wisely with the enviromental obstacles upon you, makes the build amazing.

ive argued so many times about this on forum -.-


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 Post subject: Re: General Balancing Adjustments
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 7:12 pm 
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YA BUT IF THEY TELE WITH YOU THEN MERC + HYDRAS + TELE WOULD BE GG BETTER THAN A TELE NECRO!! LOL!!!

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 Post subject: Re: General Balancing Adjustments
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 9:17 pm 
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I agree with these changes.

Will make multi boxing more fun. I actually have to gear my characters evenly if there are going to be immunities o_O

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 Post subject: Re: General Balancing Adjustments
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 12:46 am 
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I agree with almost all the changes.

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 Post subject: Re: General Balancing Adjustments
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 5:36 pm 
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"Diamonds - Nerf progression to 1//2//3//4//6//8//12//15"

How about 1//2//4//6//9//12//16//20

I suspect the problem isn't the end game as much as the early game.

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 Post subject: Re: General Balancing Adjustments
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 6:34 pm 
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4pdr/mdr per socket at level 22 is still way to high.

I could live with
1/2/3/4/6/9/13/18
after perf the gains go up by the same number as before +1

Even at that,by 44 you can have 36PDR/MDR with sigs helm and armour (+ an ar boost and 10% lifeleech). It still seems pretty strong to me though.

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 Post subject: Re: General Balancing Adjustments
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 1:10 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:01 pm
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Maybe Decoy needs a nerf too since i was able to tank almost every boss on my poison javelin zon with a lvl16ish decoy and only bo as a lifebuff on my zon.
Without bo and 1oak it would've already tanked all of em easily without getting in any troubles cause it benefits twice from oak.
The amount of the decoy when u cast it should maybe just come from ur base-life and not from ur buffed life.
But maybe that'll be fixed with a buff on the bosses anyways.


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 Post subject: Re: General Balancing Adjustments
PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 10:54 pm 
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set player count at 8 always ^^


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 Post subject: Re: General Balancing Adjustments
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 3:53 am 
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a simple way to give the hammerdin a nerf is lower conc aura from 50% to 35%.


make amp, lower res and conviction all start at 25%, have all gains from soft pts 1% and all gains from hard pts 2%



remove a1 multi mercs and give a1 cold n fire mercs magic arrow . give a small buff to their elemental arrow skills . cap their pierce and critical strike at lvl 2


if it is possible to do make all act boss have a 50% chance to be immune to poison damage.


make battle command more then just a 1pt wonder.for every 10 hard points it gives another +1 to skill buff.so at 20pts it would be +3 that would be worth maxing


all of the unused runewords for armor should be change to helm or shields

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 Post subject: Re: General Balancing Adjustments
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 9:39 am 

Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:09 am
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Sesshomaru wrote:
a simple way to give the hammerdin a nerf is lower conc aura from 50% to 35%. - IMO the damage could be halved and it still wouldn't change how powerful it is. Its powerful attribute is the bypass.


make amp, lower res and conviction all start at 25%, have all gains from soft pts 1% and all gains from hard pts 2% - So if I maxed one of these, I'd still get 63% pierce. And that's with no +skills. This idea doesn't change it much besides maybe forcing people to put more points into them. You can easily get into high values still.



remove a1 multi mercs and give a1 cold n fire mercs magic arrow . give a small buff to their elemental arrow skills . cap their pierce and critical strike at lvl 2 - Definitely agree.


if it is possible to do make all act boss have a 50% chance to be immune to poison damage. - I'm not sure how you would make it have a chance to be immune, but I do think poison on bosses is too powerful, considering it keeps everyone safe.


make battle command more then just a 1pt wonder.for every 10 hard points it gives another +1 to skill buff.so at 20pts it would be +3 that would be worth maxing


all of the unused runewords for armor should be change to helm or shields


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 Post subject: Re: General Balancing Adjustments
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 10:19 am 
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muleofal wrote:
Sesshomaru wrote:
a simple way to give the hammerdin a nerf is lower conc aura from 50% to 35%. - IMO the damage could be halved and it still wouldn't change how powerful it is. Its powerful attribute is the bypass.

dont forgot the - magic res is unknow if it works. if u want to remove the bypass u need a way to lower magic res on monsters.







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 Post subject: Re: General Balancing Adjustments
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 4:14 pm 
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muleofal wrote:
Sesshomaru wrote:
...if it is possible to do make all act boss have a 50% chance to be immune to poison damage. - I'm not sure how you would make it have a chance to be immune, but I do think poison on bosses is too powerful, considering it keeps everyone safe.


This can be done easily in Monprop.txt if there is room.

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 Post subject: Re: General Balancing Adjustments
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 10:14 pm 

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the row removal seems best, and in hc ive never had more then one row anyway,

take away radius on psn nova, make the whole build have to be within melee range to attack and make it ar based.............leave damage alone. If you have to invest points in dex or wear ar charms to actually connect, it will balance it out. cause not gonna wear all those skillers if u cannot physically connect

give rabies druid some pierce on his poison, you guys can better figure out how much.

same for psn javs

also nerf meteor, one of the guys in hc is doin 400+k dps with it by stacking them (i think 15 but not sure). if u do the math thats way more then the necro

keep normal the same as far as trash difficulty

make nm 20% harder on trash difficulty ie life and damage

make hell trash 10 percent harder ie life and damage

make the end of act boss fights epic my increasing life / dr / res/ etc

or for the last four just always make game players 8

my one concern overall is that you will end up making cookie cutter parties a flat necessity, and alot of the time i cant find a four man party.

also los necro needs to be nerfed a little hes so hard that only one party has managed to kill him this ladder in hc to my knowledge, however they did it twice, in two diff ways. I may be wrong on this.

the los boss's need to be knock back immune. or make them stunlock immune but allow them to be knocked back........ie they always capable of attack. knock back could be used as a strategy to keep them in one area but not stop them from atttacking back

flamebellow exploit needs removed (this is currently the most used way to kill los necro in sc im told) and its a shame they think they have to do it that way.

my one concern overall is that you will end up having to have cookie cutter parties as a flat necessity to do anything.

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 Post subject: Re: General Balancing Adjustments
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 12:39 am 
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yeah tad bit ridiculous when my meteor sorc can drop LoS characters in less than a minute in a full spawn gamed with LR + conviction


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 Post subject: Re: General Balancing Adjustments
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 10:14 am 
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Pappy wrote:
give rabies druid some pierce on his poison, you guys can better figure out how much.Easier to just nerf poison necs abit and bring them back into line

also nerf meteor, one of the guys in hc is doin 400+k dps with it by stacking them (i think 15 but not sure). if u do the math thats way more then the necroThats my sorc. For meteor to work you need to keep the boss completely stationery. By comparison, poison you can hit then the damage is being done while you run around. (soloable) It also takes 30 secs to fully stack meteors. The poison builds also have recastable tanks, the sorc has none. I see no problem in sorcs being very strong damage dealers since pure damage is all they bring to a team table. Remember that mine has a full inv of skill charms and sammy brain + sorc heart + anni.


my one concern overall is that you will end up making cookie cutter parties a flat necessity, and alot of the time i cant find a four man party.would be easier if you would stop rushing every new player to act 5 hell and played through with them instead...

also los necro needs to be nerfed a little hes so hard that only one party has managed to kill him this ladder in hc to my knowledge, however they did it twice, in two diff ways. I may be wrong on this.The necro is fine, he is only feared because he cant be knocked back

the los boss's need to be knock back immune. or make them stunlock immune but allow them to be knocked back........ie they always capable of attack. knock back could be used as a strategy to keep them in one area but not stop them from atttacking back
thats the plan already along with making the final bosses area completely flat with no terrain except a flat floor.

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 Post subject: Re: General Balancing Adjustments
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 10:23 am 

Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:21 am
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To the sorc argument:

The biggest point is that the necro gets lower resist. The sorc gets only meteor and that's it.


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 Post subject: Re: General Balancing Adjustments
PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 1:37 am 

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PureRage-DoD wrote:
Pappy wrote:
give rabies druid some pierce on his poison, you guys can better figure out how much.Easier to just nerf poison necs abit and bring them back into line

also nerf meteor, one of the guys in hc is doin 400+k dps with it by stacking them (i think 15 but not sure). if u do the math thats way more then the necroThats my sorc. For meteor to work you need to keep the boss completely stationery. By comparison, poison you can hit then the damage is being done while you run around. (soloable) It also takes 30 secs to fully stack meteors. The poison builds also have recastable tanks, the sorc has none. I see no problem in sorcs being very strong damage dealers since pure damage is all they bring to a team table. Remember that mine has a full inv of skill charms and sammy brain + sorc heart + anni. every party has a necro so youll always have lr, and ive never met a pally in hc that didnt have at least one point in every aura..........theres ur curse and conviction, im not talkin bout soling los


my one concern overall is that you will end up making cookie cutter parties a flat necessity, and alot of the time i cant find a four man party.would be easier if you would stop rushing every new player to act 5 hell and played through with them instead... Like u did with eddie? level 95 in two days? and there are no new players.........we have all killed norm and nm a hundred times each, hell is the only challenge so lets go where the fun is.

also los necro needs to be nerfed a little hes so hard that only one party has managed to kill him this ladder in hc to my knowledge, however they did it twice, in two diff ways. I may be wrong on this.The necro is fine, he is only feared because he cant be knocked back

the los boss's need to be knock back immune. or make them stunlock immune but allow them to be knocked back........ie they always capable of attack. knock back could be used as a strategy to keep them in one area but not stop them from atttacking back
thats the plan already along with making the final bosses area completely flat with no terrain except a flat floor.

yeah baby what he said

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 Post subject: Re: General Balancing Adjustments
PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 2:48 am 
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talkin about the build that edd played from level 1 to 99 that got killed by the los nec? Theres a big differance between a rush and a rebuild of a dead char that was played untwinked through every area. It cost him half an inv of skillers, anni, sammy brain and an almost perfect druid heart. Not to mention the shit on his merc. Isn't that enough?

Nikki just started up a week or so ago again. Did I rush him? No, I played through as usual and ended up forming a few good partys. Eventually joining up with jarl for nm a5 to hell a5. Also it took me and nik just over 2 days without a rush to get from level 1 to act 5 hell. the same days we were doing that you were pulling through a party consisting of 4 or 5 players? We would have joined them if not for that and they would probs have had more fun. They could have done it themselves anyway...

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 Post subject: Re: General Balancing Adjustments
PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 3:38 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:36 am
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After spending two hours reading every forum on the new patch i think the following were missed
Btw kev i was not slamming u ...........just saying...........there are no new pple in the community right now....so they have all done it to the point of it being stupid.. My little "rushed group" was rushed through nm ac two, after that i used my healer and let them do the killing, cept i did use an opener on act two hell because we were gonna try for los till one of them got discouraged. Los may still happen, just not sure if he will come.

your "soul shards" posted were a cool idea but they need to be the same level requ or else psn for instance will be better because they get the charm at 88 and light doesn't get to wear theirs till 96 (again those are examples)


Since we are trying to balance mercs I would like to propose nerfing act three mercs to some degree as well.

Today I went after hell anya dragon with me only person in the game and i solo'd him on that crappy healer i made. My merc did the whole thing. Act three light owned the anya dragon in just under three mins, i juved two or three times total. On a side note if you would like fraps of it i got most of it recorded.

I have not tested fire cold or poison ill leave that up to the dev team. But I am told by a friend that fire in tight spaces is really strong as well.

Summon necro's will need some kind of kill skill if u nerf phys mercs or else we gonna see em runnin around using act three mercs from above and just casting lower res instead of amp. I was thinking of messing around with damage on the skells since ur leaving golems mostly alone.

I'm not certain this is possible with the game mechanics so I'll put it out there (don't get pissed if it seems stupid) but why not just make CE require huge amounts of mana and lower the radius as i saw discussed, im afraid the skill will be no longer used at all because of that timer.

Last thing: Is cb damage hard coded? for example instead of taking 1/8 you could now make it take 1/64? I'm asking because at this point just getting rid of cb altogether seems drastic.

Thanks for reading all this and have a good day.

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