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 Post subject: Charged Strike Counters Reduction?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:52 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:52 pm
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Charged Strike at lvl 43 (current lvl of a nicely geared lvl 83 Javazon) does 11 bolts per attack. Versus bosses that counter, that provides the wielding Amazing with 11 counters for every 1 attack.

With 100 ias at 9 fps with Matriarchal Javelins those attacks are coming out 2.7 per second.

That amounts to 11 x 2.7 = 29.7 Counters per second.

I'm all for counters I think they're a great additive to the game. However, I think nearly 30 counters per second for a Charged Strike seems a bit too much.

Anyone else care to throw in their 2 cents?


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 Post subject: Re: Charged Strike Counters Reduction?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:56 pm 
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use lightning javelin (or whatever the first skills name is), it has decent damage fully synergised and that reduces the counters.

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 Post subject: Re: Charged Strike Counters Reduction?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:08 pm 

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PureRage-DoD wrote:
use lightning javelin (or whatever the first skills name is), it has decent damage fully synergised and that reduces the counters.


Lightning Bolt is the first one, only problem with that one is you will run out of javelins really quick if you just spam them at a monster that has countering capabilities. The only other elemental based jab attack is Lightning Strike. Which puts out Chain Lightning on attack. It's okay but it's more designed for crowed control since it hits 17 times before it dissipates. It would only hit 1 time vs a boss, which is what counters. Charged Strike at lvl 43 does 9k Damage in which all 11.7 Bolts will hit 1 target. Seems like its designed more for a boss killing type of attack. Difference in damage would be:

lvl 43 Charged Strike 11.7 x 9 = 105,300
lvl 42 Lightning Strike = 17,373

=/


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 Post subject: Re: Charged Strike Counters Reduction?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:10 pm 
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you shouls be able to get that lightning bolt up to 30k easily, eth javs ofc. with a set of javs on switch and a set of javs on the main hand you should have no trouble. You can always use a smith rune if you need. 30k x 2.7 a sec seems reasonable. 105,300 x 2.7 a sec is pretty hefty damage against bosses, especially as you can reduce enemys res alot more than amp can reduce phys res. I tended to use charged strike against the superuniques and things like worldstone golems etc. Then light bolt against bosses. light strike I would use 4 or 5 times on mobs before using a light fury to finish stuff off. Each has its own uses. light bolt is deff a decent choice for heavy countering areas.

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 Post subject: Re: Charged Strike Counters Reduction?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:23 am 

Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:52 pm
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there are always ways around things but the fact still remains that the counters for Charged Strike are way too much. It should at least be reduced to half of the number of bolts. At the very least. I think a 1 to 3 ratio would be balanced. So a 12 bolt CS would spawn 4 counters each hit. Don't you think that the counters for that skill are unreasonably high?


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 Post subject: Re: Charged Strike Counters Reduction?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:29 pm 
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Dodge, resists, block will help.

You can solo baal/diablo in 10 seconds. Just be prepared to mash juvs.

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 Post subject: Re: Charged Strike Counters Reduction?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:41 pm 
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Excusez moi, sir:

LmT wrote:
Dodge


I thought dodge was an awful choice for melee/mixed zons.

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 Post subject: Re: Charged Strike Counters Reduction?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:00 pm 
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only for actual melee zons. Since they are reliant on always being in close and always attacking to leech life back. I would 1 point them on a java (infact I did) since most of the time you are out of the fray and are free to spam. The counters are so high on that skill due to the huge output of damage. Its the same as fclaw/bite you can increase DPS a TON by increasing attack speed but you have to put up with alot of counters. I generally only used charged strike against unique siege beasts and minions of destruction etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Charged Strike Counters Reduction?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:31 pm 
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tonykantos wrote:
Excusez moi, sir:

LmT wrote:
Dodge


I thought dodge was an awful choice for melee/mixed zons.


If you're attacking, you can dodge without going through the animation.

Plus there are various ways to avoid the whole dodge animation thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Charged Strike Counters Reduction?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:07 pm 
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no, if you are attacking, it may look like that but you are actually dodging, not attacking and not leeching life back. Utter's jabzon suffered from this last season.

LmT wrote:
Plus there are various ways to avoid the whole dodge animation thing.


Hax dont count :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Charged Strike Counters Reduction?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:35 pm 
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Counters are made just for this purpose, forcing you to not doing hell Baal like on bnet. Just like your suggestion on IM, adapt or fail. CS is not the boss skill on a light java, just like Rage pointed out, light bolt is the skill to use.


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 Post subject: Re: Charged Strike Counters Reduction?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 11:35 am 

Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:52 pm
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Utter wrote:
Counters are made just for this purpose, forcing you to not doing hell Baal like on bnet. Just like your suggestion on IM, adapt or fail. CS is not the boss skill on a light java, just like Rage pointed out, light bolt is the skill to use.


Apparently you and Rage think this mod is 100% perfect? I haven't seen one suggestion that either of you have supported in this forum. You would think that on a suggestion forum people would be more open minded.

who says that a person HAS to use this skill for 1 purpose and that skill for a different purpose. I don't think cookie cutter builds only are that appealing for a game. I like having the option to be creative.


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 Post subject: Re: Charged Strike Counters Reduction?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 12:14 pm 
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Using the highest DPS skill you have and not have counters coming at you from bosses is not creative. Creative would be leaving a light immune enemy alive (on diablo for example) and using light strike. That way it puts the chain effect to use.

But ok fair enough, reduce the number of bolts released but dont change the damage for each bolt (2 bolts would keep the counters down). You cant have it both ways. Thats why Cb sorcs have other attacks to use in heavy countering areas.

I always used light bolt on countering bosses and I had no real problems doing so. With decent equip you can get plenty -res and a hefty damage bolt. Again, the ways around things are already there, you just need to use them and not decide that the skill should be changed because it is not effective at some points. Thats why you have other skill options.

light javazon is designed as a trash clearing farmer, you cant have a build that clears trash at such a crazy speed and destroys bosses in the same time.

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 Post subject: Re: Charged Strike Counters Reduction?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 12:23 pm 
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Then be creative and use the skill with the results it renders. You don't have to use any skills, but you have to face to consequences of the skills you chose to use.

If counters were removed/reduced then you would make alot of skills useless and make the mod way to easy.

The mod aint perfect, Terry is done with it though and I won't pester him to change things. I supported the suggestion that games could only be entered by chars at the same difficulty as the creator, aka a game made with a char still in normal is locked for chars in nm and hell. If a hell char makes a game in normal can be entered by any chars etc. I supported that since it was a great suggestion that would remove alot of the bs rushing on here. You should know that I've been here since 2005, so I kinda know what the hell I'm talking about.

We don't want no fucking cs-zons like on bnet.


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 Post subject: Re: Charged Strike Counters Reduction?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 3:34 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:03 am
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 Post subject: Re: Charged Strike Counters Reduction?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:14 pm 
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what utter said, oh and purerage ur forgetting what happens when u hit all the seal in chaos ;)
oh and purerage is one of the ppl who suggested the anti rush system, but for some reason sugarbean, i presume you would be against such a system, amirite?

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 Post subject: Re: Charged Strike Counters Reduction?
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 11:41 am 
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Sugarbean wrote:
Utter wrote:
Counters are made just for this purpose, forcing you to not doing hell Baal like on bnet. Just like your suggestion on IM, adapt or fail. CS is not the boss skill on a light java, just like Rage pointed out, light bolt is the skill to use.


Apparently you and Rage think this mod is 100% perfect? I haven't seen one suggestion that either of you have supported in this forum. You would think that on a suggestion forum people would be more open minded.

who says that a person HAS to use this skill for 1 purpose and that skill for a different purpose. I don't think cookie cutter builds only are that appealing for a game. I like having the option to be creative.


So you want a skill that's good at everything? That's what I'm gathering from this post.

If you haven't noticed, most characters that are incredible amazing at trash (I'm looking at you lightning zon) aren't the best boss killers. It's this strange thing called balance.

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 Post subject: Re: Charged Strike Counters Reduction?
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 4:31 pm 
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Just stack absorb...

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