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 Post subject: Tals and aldurs set needs some love
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:54 am 
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they are both pretty garbage in comparison to the other sets.

Tals: Change the +% skill damage on it to -res
Give it an extra 50%fcr
remove the + mastery from the orb and change it to +2 sorc skills

Aldurs: Make it a shapeshifter set, change the weapon to a decent 2 hander and give it an extra +1 druid skills
bring it close to IK set. Obviously not as strong as it has fewer parts but give it a bit of a boost. Maybe an oskill zerk or vengance (+1 or 2).

any ideas for the sets would be good. They need a buff badly though. Still water etc and other equip at level 60-70 is 100% better than tals and aldurs is a joke.

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 Post subject: Re: Tals and aldurs set needs some love
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:17 pm 
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Aldurs set :

helm : earth spirit
all res 30
300% enhanced defense
+1 shapeshifting skills
+1 druid skills
3 open sockets
20% dmg reduced

Armor : shadow plate

+1 druid skills
+1 druid summoning
500% enhanced defense
200 life
200 mana
-50% requirements
3 sockets open
+1 to iron skin (oskill!!) ( 3 parts quipped)

Weapon :

Giant tresher
450 % Ed
90% ias
5% crushing blow
3 sockets open

20% lifeleech (2 parts equipped)
20% manaleech (3 parts equipped)

boots : War boots
10% slow target
300% enhanced defense
+1 dru skill
100 life
30% frw
all res 15

Full SEt Bonus
5 druid skills
all res 50
+1 to polearm mastery ( Oskill!!)
80% faster hit recovery
damage reduced by 10%
1200 attack rating
5% crushing blow

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Last edited by Kannli on Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Tals and aldurs set needs some love
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:38 pm 
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i like it, lacks added stats but thats a fair trade for a 4 part set i'd say.

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 Post subject: Re: Tals and aldurs set needs some love
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:12 pm 
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Before tweaking aldurs, it might be good to hear from anyone with a Windy or Fire Caster druid - is Aldur's used by them or is it overshadowed by other items? If so, what items in particular?

I know the set is good for rabies druids, but I haven't played a windy or fire caster in too long to have any insight on it.

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 Post subject: Re: Tals and aldurs set needs some love
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:33 pm 
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horazons, eni, kiras and mancers boots + belt is better than aldurs and a +1 skill belt. level 86 req for the set? and you only get +8 skills iirc, at least with eni you get tele, and a massive str and dex boost + the dex on mancers boots and you have easy max block. The problem is the other sets can be used until the end game. IK, mavs, trangs, nats and gris. These 2 sets are only usefull if you really have no other option. Even then you can make rw's and use crappy uniques to out do them both.

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 Post subject: Re: Tals and aldurs set needs some love
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 2:10 pm 
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I have both a firestormer and a windy and I would never use that set on any of them. Can't think of any druid builds that would use it over the common unique.


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 Post subject: Re: Tals and aldurs set needs some love
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 2:13 pm 
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Utter wrote:
I have both a firestormer and a windy and I would never use that set on any of them. Can't think of any druid builds that would use it over the common unique.


What items in particular did you use instead of Aldur's?

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 Post subject: Re: Tals and aldurs set needs some love
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:18 pm 
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Firestormer is using (will be using):
Sword of the wanderer
Ormus (Templars)
Jalals (Elemental craft +3 ele +fire%)
Silkweaves

Windy:
Que Hegans (Enigma)
Hoto (Horizons)
+3 ele circlet (Depends on fcr, CoA, Kiras, dunno)
Silkweaves


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 Post subject: Re: Tals and aldurs set needs some love
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:29 pm 
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So with your current Firestormer setup you are getting:

+6 total skills
+2 (sword)
+1 (armor)
+1 (boots)
+2 (helm)

If you used full aldur you would get +7 to all druid skills and a bonus +1 to ele skills. You would also get 4 sockets in the weapon for FCR or -fire resist. Ormus gives you at most 16% fire dmg, but that is well offset by the -10% fire res that Aldurs gives. Biggest downside I see is that the +skills on aldur's won't buff BO if you have that on switch. Seems to me though that Full Aldur's is a big win over your current fire setup. Is it the str reqs that are making you choose your path instead?

Windy has +5 all skills and another +3 to ele, which puts him at +8 ele (equal to aldurs) and there are some slick benefits on Hoto and Que Hegan, but I honestly don't see how it is blowing Aldur's out of the water.

The end game stuff (templars, CoA, enigma, etc) is better than Aldurs, but that is balanced.

Just trying to get a feel for the balance issues at hand and why you made the choices you did since I haven't played either build.

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 Post subject: Re: Tals and aldurs set needs some love
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:10 pm 

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As for Aldur's it's not bad, but you have other options that give the same (or better) benefits, and you don't need the full set (not a big deal but...) to get it.

PS.: sets should be little bit more powerful cuz you need to collect every piece for it (again not a big deal, but...) to be effective.

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 Post subject: Re: Tals and aldurs set needs some love
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:19 pm 
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BaLooB33R wrote:
As for Aldur's it's not bad, but you have other options that give the same (or better) benefits, and you don't need the full set (not a big deal but...) to get it.


Such as? That's the question worth discussing. I recognize that melee druids are unlikely to use it given the 1h dmg, but if it is viable for other druid classes than that isn't a complete loss.

BaLooB33R wrote:
PS.: sets should be little bit more powerful cuz you need to collect every piece for it (again not a big deal, but...) to be effective.


Depends a lot on the set, how rare it is and what hte level reqs are. IK set is extremely powerful for example but getting the helm is a #%&^% bitch, so that helps it out. When balancing a set, it should be assumed that you aren't using it on a character your first time around, but rather when you are fairly flush with gear and can twink a bit. Aldurs is designed for the 80-86 range and has a lot of powerful partial set bonuses to make it useful until you can get the armor at lvl86. That means it is an early Hell set (or late NM for people who suck) and it does pretty well for that.

I also wouldn't consider gathering full Aldurs to be that difficult of a task.

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 Post subject: Re: Tals and aldurs set needs some love
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:50 pm 
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never used aldurs, have used tals a bit tho, but for survivability deciples is better cause of the sockets, increase sockets in tals armor, change ammy to shield or a ring,

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 Post subject: Re: Tals and aldurs set needs some love
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:55 pm 
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Zikur wrote:
never used aldurs, have used tals a bit tho, but for survivability deciples is better cause of the sockets, increase sockets in tals armor, change ammy to shield or a ring,


what kind of sorc did you use with disciple?

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 Post subject: Re: Tals and aldurs set needs some love
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:28 pm 
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blue_myriddn wrote:
Zikur wrote:
never used aldurs, have used tals a bit tho, but for survivability deciples is better cause of the sockets, increase sockets in tals armor, change ammy to shield or a ring,


what kind of sorc did you use with disciple?


I can talk about tal rasha with enough arguments.
Checked it with my lightnova sorc, and full discs > full tals, by FAR.
And Im not only talking about dmg boosts....

pluses from disciple compared to tals:
a) higher dmg
b) 25 DR/MDR ( really handy specially in HC )
c) extra sox on armor.
d) With disc you are allowed to wear a nice crafted/rare circlet, and you have weapon slot free for whatever you want.
e) lower lvl reqs
f) RIP, specially useful when playing solo vs shamans, chargers, mummies ,and everything who can resurrect/ be resurrected

equals
a) similar resists
b) similar fcr
c) 10% dr

pluses from tals compared to disc:
a) high mana boost
b) slightly life boost
c) 33 MDR
d) boots and gloves slots are free for use... silkweaves? hellmouth? whatever...

Talrasha set stinks.

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 Post subject: Re: Tals and aldurs set needs some love
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:49 pm 
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Aldurs is mostly worthless because the weapon forces you to go 1h/shield. The damage is too low for fury and it only reaches 3 frames for bear+fc/fb. Change it to a 5 socket thundermaul with 100 ias, 500ed and now you have something :D


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 Post subject: Re: Tals and aldurs set needs some love
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 11:06 pm 
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The main problem about aldurs is the own druid skill trees: it has so different playing styles ( from casters , to melee ) that item stats are so spread and "balanced", or better said: sucky ,
until SM says: "ok, lets do Aldur an ele druid set",
or "ok, lets do Aldur a melee druid set".
both options would be viable, but its about specializing Aldurs a lil bit...

nedder wrote:
Aldurs is mostly worthless because the weapon forces you to go 1h/shield. The damage is too low for fury and it only reaches 3 frames for bear+fc/fb. Change it to a 5 socket thundermaul with 100 ias, 500ed and now you have something :D

I'd rather vote for poleaxes ( giant thresher could be the best bet ) instead of any maul, since we alrdy got mace-based high lvl weapon ( IK ). Variety -> fun

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 Post subject: Re: Tals and aldurs set needs some love
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 1:24 am 
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blue_myriddn wrote:
So with your current Firestormer setup you are getting:

+6 total skills
+2 (sword)
+1 (armor)
+1 (boots)
+2 (helm)

If you used full aldur you would get +7 to all druid skills and a bonus +1 to ele skills. You would also get 4 sockets in the weapon for FCR or -fire resist. Ormus gives you at most 16% fire dmg, but that is well offset by the -10% fire res that Aldurs gives. Biggest downside I see is that the +skills on aldur's won't buff BO if you have that on switch. Seems to me though that Full Aldur's is a big win over your current fire setup. Is it the str reqs that are making you choose your path instead?

Windy has +5 all skills and another +3 to ele, which puts him at +8 ele (equal to aldurs) and there are some slick benefits on Hoto and Que Hegan, but I honestly don't see how it is blowing Aldur's out of the water.

The end game stuff (templars, CoA, enigma, etc) is better than Aldurs, but that is balanced.

Just trying to get a feel for the balance issues at hand and why you made the choices you did since I haven't played either build.

+3 Sword.

And full aldurs are more of a hassle to get than the gear he's gonna use.

Will post a complete comparision when I get home from work.


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 Post subject: Re: Tals and aldurs set needs some love
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:01 am 
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Utter wrote:
blue_myriddn wrote:
So with your current Firestormer setup you are getting:

+6 total skills
+2 (sword)
+1 (armor)
+1 (boots)
+2 (helm)

If you used full aldur you would get +7 to all druid skills and a bonus +1 to ele skills. You would also get 4 sockets in the weapon for FCR or -fire resist. Ormus gives you at most 16% fire dmg, but that is well offset by the -10% fire res that Aldurs gives. Biggest downside I see is that the +skills on aldur's won't buff BO if you have that on switch. Seems to me though that Full Aldur's is a big win over your current fire setup. Is it the str reqs that are making you choose your path instead?

Windy has +5 all skills and another +3 to ele, which puts him at +8 ele (equal to aldurs) and there are some slick benefits on Hoto and Que Hegan, but I honestly don't see how it is blowing Aldur's out of the water.

The end game stuff (templars, CoA, enigma, etc) is better than Aldurs, but that is balanced.

Just trying to get a feel for the balance issues at hand and why you made the choices you did since I haven't played either build.

+3 Sword.

And full aldurs are more of a hassle to get than the gear he's gonna use.

Will post a complete comparision when I get home from work.



use bob's fc and windy to compare it since there almost fully endgame geared :twisted:


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 Post subject: Re: Tals and aldurs set needs some love
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:45 am 

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Or switch it so there's no weapon in the set, just armour/boots/hat/something else like gloves. Then it's still a four item set and can be given stats to help both melee people and caster people.


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 Post subject: Re: Tals and aldurs set needs some love
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:58 am 
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also, aldurs only has 58% fcr with the full set equiped.
Uncursed sword has 50%fcr alone.

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 Post subject: Re: Tals and aldurs set needs some love
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:01 am 
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WolfStar wrote:
Or switch it so there's no weapon in the set, just armour/boots/hat/something else like gloves. Then it's still a four item set and can be given stats to help both melee people and caster people.


That is an interesting idea.

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 Post subject: Re: Tals and aldurs set needs some love
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 9:45 am 
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same thing could be done for tals orb -> gloves

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 Post subject: Re: Tals and aldurs set needs some love
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 12:34 pm 
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Zikur wrote:
same thing could be done for tals orb -> gloves


nope, can't, because the orb is that makes talrasha set specific for sorc.
Tal rasha MUST to have orb, as IK and aldurs got specific helm, natalya got claws, trangs got the head-shield, griswold got herald-shield, and zon got GMB.

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 Post subject: Re: Tals and aldurs set needs some love
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 12:38 pm 
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Ok, tried to get aldurs on my firestormer. No go, the str needed for the axe was way of my current str. So that's another big reason not to use it.


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 Post subject: Re: Tals and aldurs set needs some love
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 12:48 pm 
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Utter wrote:
Ok, tried to get aldurs on my firestormer. No go, the str needed for the axe was way of my current str. So that's another big reason not to use it.


ya, I had a feeling that hte str req was a big limitation. Granted, you can just toss a Hel in there but I am feeling that for what the set is designed around the strength is a little high. I had similar issues with RuneMaster for my rabies druid.

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 Post subject: Re: Tals and aldurs set needs some love
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 1:07 pm 
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And as Kev pointed out, no fcr on the weap. 50% on my current one.


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 Post subject: Re: Tals and aldurs set needs some love
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 5:01 pm 
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I woulda thought the + 5 sorc skills is what made it sorc specific, then buff/change the orb cause its lacking. same with amulet/helm buff/change.

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 Post subject: Re: Tals and aldurs set needs some love
PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:53 am 

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Besides Trangs, SM, and IK all sets suck..


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 Post subject: Re: Tals and aldurs set needs some love
PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 11:13 am 
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Sugarbean wrote:
Besides Trangs, SM, and IK all sets suck..

Ok, are you trolling or just stupid?


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 Post subject: Re: Tals and aldurs set needs some love
PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 11:49 am 

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Utter wrote:
Sugarbean wrote:
Besides Trangs, SM, and IK all sets suck..

Ok, are you trolling or just stupid?


lol what other set is viable? Mavinas set is horrible for a bowazon, Aldurs set is horrible for melee, fire, cold, wind, summon, Tals set is horrible for a sorc, and Griswolds (except a 5 ber'd weapon and no other pieces) is terrible for a hdin, smiter, zealot. Nats I can't speak for because I don't play assassins, but I haven't seen 1 Assassin that's used any of Nat's pieces for any period of time.

Are you stupid?


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 Post subject: Re: Tals and aldurs set needs some love
PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:52 pm 
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mavs is perfect for an ele bowzon, I used full gris on my sniter and he could kill hell diablo with 2 juvs. The MDR and sorbs on gris makes is GG. disciple set is good for sorcs as a safety set. all the low sets are usefull except a chosen few.

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 Post subject: Re: Tals and aldurs set needs some love
PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 2:14 pm 
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Was about to write something but decided to have sex instead. So I forgot what it was.

Anyway sure some sets needs a bit of a tweak. But things like angelics+hsarus can carry a caster through normal easily. And Mavinas is the best you can get your coldzon. Nats are useful for most sin builds.


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 Post subject: Re: Tals and aldurs set needs some love
PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 2:41 pm 
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goal of sets - great early hell, viable to late hell, start to fade out end game as the REALLY powerful items kick in.

I think that by in large they accomplish this although there have been some good suggestions here to refine them. I don't think they need a major boost. That occurred several patches ago and I think it accomplished what needed to be done.

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 Post subject: Re: Tals and aldurs set needs some love
PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 3:02 pm 

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Tal's armor has a -60%requirement mod to make it viable for fey little sorcs, do the same with Aldur's axe. Job done.

If it is decided to change the weapon to something more suited for melee roles, I would rather see it changed to something like a Cryptic Axe or Colossus Voulge since that matches Tancred's or Hwanin's style more. Threshers or scythe-type weapons are more a Necro's style. Granted, you never see any sane Necro's using any 2-handers, but my point is still valid I hope.


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 Post subject: Re: Tals and aldurs set needs some love
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 4:11 pm 
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Adjustment to Aldur's is here: http://blue.arimyth.com/aldurswatchtower.html

this seems to resolve the issues with that set.

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 Post subject: Re: Tals and aldurs set needs some love
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 11:15 pm 
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wouldnt that make it possibly to get 2% cb on the druid class only with a 2h weapon?

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 Post subject: Re: Tals and aldurs set needs some love
PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:33 am 
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anyone could use the armour boots and gloves if they wanted. I'd say the set will lose its use by the 90's anyway

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 Post subject: Re: Tals and aldurs set needs some love
PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:12 pm 
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seems good with the gauntlets instead of the weapon , good imo

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