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 Post subject: Too easy to get max resists?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:50 am 
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I know that people always hate to see items nerfed, but it seems that there are lots of ways to get tons of resists. That has the spillover effect of allowing you to load your shield up with skulls and get high physical resistance as well.

Some of the key culprits seem to be:

Con ring 100% res all
Kiras 50% res all
Tyrael 50% res all
MetalGrid 40-60% res all
Spirit Ward 50% res all
Dscale 50% res all
SM set - 50% res all for only 2 parts, another 50% for the full set.

I wonder if it is worth evaluating the resists and perhaps toning them down a bit more and make it more of a challenge to get max & stacked resists.

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 Post subject: Re: Too easy to get max resists?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:02 am 
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Most of that is endgame equip, IE. when you are going up against convic + lr in wsk 3 onwards.

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 Post subject: Re: Too easy to get max resists?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:54 am 
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blue_myriddn wrote:
Con ring 100% res all
Kiras 50% res all
Tyrael 50% res all
MetalGrid 40-60% res all
Spirit Ward 50% res all
Dscale 50% res all
SM set - 50% res all for only 2 parts, another 50% for the full set.



-Blue -> High lvl item. Hard to find
-Red -> End game lvl items. Even Harder to find
-Dscale is paladin only shield
-Metalgrid is not useful for every char in HU.

In my opinion, if you manage to get those items, you well deserve the stacking resist reward.


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 Post subject: Re: Too easy to get max resists?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:34 pm 
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Quote:
Too easy to get max resists?

Quote:
Con ring 100% res all
Tyrael 50% res all

I'd want to get one con ring if its easy for you to get it.
And no it's not easy.
and btw.
Quote:
I wonder if it is worth evaluating the resists and perhaps toning them down a bit more and make it more of a challenge to get max & stacked resists.
My nec has 212 total res, so any LR on hell brings him to 25+, SoB is a must.


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 Post subject: Re: Too easy to get max resists?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:45 pm 
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Steel wrote:
My nec has 212 total res, so any LR on hell brings him to 25+, SoB is a must.


You are complaining about 212 total resists? I think you are proving my point.

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 Post subject: Re: Too easy to get max resists?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:47 pm 

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i agree... 212 resists is 40 over the cap. and this is a non tanking character. theres probably potential for more too. then again, if you have completely godly, full gear it doesnt seem to be extremely bad, but i would envision that to be more along the lines for a tanking barb or paladin.


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 Post subject: Re: Too easy to get max resists?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:55 pm 
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Quote:
212 resists is 40 over the cap

what the hell? -120 on hell + 75 = 17 over the cap... yes, I added +30 from Malah's rewards.
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and this is a non tanking character.
Fissure still hurts, badly...
Quote:
theres probably potential for more too.
Sure, I take all donations, pm me in game.
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You are complaining about 212 total resists? I think you are proving my point.
I don't complain, wtf?. Just said it's easily lowered to 25.


Last edited by Steel on Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Too easy to get max resists?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:57 pm 

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doh, my bad, thought it was -100, confusion from another mod.


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 Post subject: Re: Too easy to get max resists?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:02 pm 

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so youre saying you dont even have godly gear? its pathetic we have characters reaching 200+ resists without godly gear.


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 Post subject: Re: Too easy to get max resists?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:06 pm 
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this equip stated above is the kinda stuff you use in hell wsk. There is convic and lr at the same time down there. Having stacked resists is a must at that stage. Most of those items are only attainable in act 5 hell and only usable there. Ie. they are found at the point they are needed. Metalgrid is used mostly on melee classes (barbs/druids with 2 handers) who can struggle for res with no shield.

Quote:
Fissure still hurts, badly...

This is my main point, there is hefty damage in late act 5 hell with the combo or convic and lr. these high res items are needed at that stage. They may be OP in earlier acts but they are not usualy found by then. (most of the items are level 95)

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 Post subject: Re: Too easy to get max resists?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:06 pm 
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muleofal wrote:
its pathetic we have characters reaching 200+ resists without godly gear.

Of course I have(sm,eni,mara,no res rings tho,anni), but I don't like when someone say something is easy to get, I wasn't given any item... lul?


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 Post subject: Re: Too easy to get max resists?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:19 pm 
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fair enough, let me define easy.

I don't mean easy as in "not difficult to achieve" or "able to accomplish without effort", I mean easy as in "able to obtain without sacrifice". If you had to sacrifice skills or damage to obtain 200+ resists, that would be a little better balance.

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 Post subject: Re: Too easy to get max resists?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:20 pm 

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PureRage-DoD wrote:
this equip stated above is the kinda stuff you use in hell wsk. There is convic and lr at the same time down there. Having stacked resists is a must at that stage. Most of those items are only attainable in act 5 hell and only usable there. Ie. they are found at the point they are needed. Metalgrid is used mostly on melee classes (barbs/druids with 2 handers) who can struggle for res with no shield.

Quote:
Fissure still hurts, badly...

This is my main point, there is hefty damage in late act 5 hell with the combo or convic and lr. these high res items are needed at that stage. They may be OP in earlier acts but they are not usualy found by then. (most of the items are level 95)


and if you dont have these high resist items...? my point exactly.

nerf the fissure, but nerf the amount of res on these top end items. a person wearing all these godly items is gonna find it a lot easier than a person not wearing them.


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 Post subject: Re: Too easy to get max resists?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:21 pm 

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Steel wrote:
muleofal wrote:
its pathetic we have characters reaching 200+ resists without godly gear.

Of course I have(sm,eni,mara,no res rings tho,anni), but I don't like when someone say something is easy to get, I wasn't given any item... lul?


i never said it was easy to get these items, but theres nothing you lose from wearing them. these items have all these extra skills, block, dr%, res, life, stats over the non-godly items. whats a person supposed to do if they dont have these items?


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 Post subject: Re: Too easy to get max resists?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:28 pm 
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muleofal wrote:
whats a person supposed to do if they dont have these items?

Use dimonds in the shield

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 Post subject: Re: Too easy to get max resists?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:31 pm 

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again, just goes to show how much HU is reliant on items. thats why HU and vanilla lod are pretty damn similar right now


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 Post subject: Re: Too easy to get max resists?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:33 pm 

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What exactly would lowering the resists on these items accomplish? I kind of like having different options for socketing my shields. All I see this doing is making diamonds in the shield mandatory for most classes.


Last edited by drrod on Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Too easy to get max resists?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:35 pm 

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drrod wrote:
What exactly would lowering the resists on these items accomplish? I kind of like having different options for socketing my shields.


it wont take away from that choice. you have to subsequently balance damage and pierces along with it. its trying to accomplish a smaller range of difference between characters with good items and characters with bad items, so that you can tweak the game difficulty to more focus on a good team and good players rather than being it largely based on items.

example: it was mentioned that fissure hurts with that high of resists. if you nerf the resists available on the top end items and then nerf fissure accordingly, it can still hurt like it does. but with this way, the people who have the shittier items wont be dying in one shot to it (thats not hard either, thats annoying and boring). it would reduce the amount of farming people do, and therefore we can focus on other ways of making the game more difficult and focus on tailoring to better parties, better players.


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 Post subject: Re: Too easy to get max resists?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:39 pm 
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drrod wrote:
What exactly would lowering the resists on these items accomplish? I kind of like having different options for socketing my shields.


Ya, I kinda like it too so I view this with mixed feelings. I also largely view characters beyond lvl95 as unbalancable given skillers and other items that are out there. Beyond lvl95, the game is basically just a playground if you want it to be. The real challenges are below those levels.

As for what it will accomplish - would resolve some of the feelings expressed in this post about how easy the mod is: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1267 Or at the very least, would mean that you wouldn't see characters running around with every single thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Too easy to get max resists?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:55 pm 

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blue_myriddn wrote:
drrod wrote:
What exactly would lowering the resists on these items accomplish? I kind of like having different options for socketing my shields.


Ya, I kinda like it too so I view this with mixed feelings. I also largely view characters beyond lvl95 as unbalancable given skillers and other items that are out there. Beyond lvl95, the game is basically just a playground if you want it to be. The real challenges are below those levels.

As for what it will accomplish - would resolve some of the feelings expressed in this post about how easy the mod is: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1267 Or at the very least, would mean that you wouldn't see characters running around with every single thing.


I never thought endgame was that easy. The majority of builds in HU fail hard at boss killing. Unless you're running around with a power team of nec/druid/pal it can be pretty tough taking down Baal, Sam, LoS. Go take a few elemental characters(non-poison) up against the LoS heroes and see how far you get.

The problem with the thread asking to buff the game difficulty is I'd bet most of those players never even tried to go through the game without the top tier boss killing builds, never played HC, or never went through the game untwinked. This mod gets A LOT harder when you take away heavy crushing blow characters, poison, and hammers.

Everyone knows all the little tricks to getting through the mod easily by now, so naturally it isn't that hard if you know what you're doing and have a decent team. Bring in a fresh group of players and watch them try to get through this mod, it's far from easy. There's a huge learning curve.

I guess I shoulda posted this in the other thread?


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 Post subject: Re: Too easy to get max resists?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:58 pm 
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well, once you are at that late stage in the game you have items that grant resists so you can focus on other things to help you survive, like dr% and absorbs. You have to remember that after hell baal you have LoS to deal with. You need high resists, dr% etc to survive in there.

even all that and you can still get steamrolled by the nec. When it comes to that you need magic resist/absorb and curse, so 2 whisp rings, soul drinker weap, safety craft shield (with 2-3 ber in it depending on holy craft armour) holy craft armour (so you lose war/tyraels). All that is so you can become CI to actually be able to take a few hits (with level 5 fade and redemption).

So you can choose between well stcked resists or becoming curse immune (so lr/IM/Amp wont weaken you) I think thats a fair trade off. If you nerf all res on the high end items then people will just go the curse immune route again (its hard but its alot stronger than stcked res) Elemental damage is no problem anyway with absorbs. Its amp + phys dmage that is the killer. Think darkness using nado when you are amped.

The only good thing about a con ring is the resists, the other stats can be easily beaten by crafts. Tyrales is usualy used by chars with 2 hnded weapons, so no shield, as is metalgrid. Kiras could maybe be toned down to 30 all res but then there are crafted circlets and rares that will be alot better than it anyway.

Its ok saying to change all this at a point in the season when you can have many of those items on a single char. When it is more important (seasons start) people need the resists more. My first run through hell on my pally I had to run resist auras pretty much all the time as my res was piss poor. Even once I had tyraels. Lowering ele damage and lowering resists on items is just making the damage weaker and the res weaker = the same as it is now. The game is balanced around chars having 75 all res, just look at how fast an ES is killed by ele dmge.

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 Post subject: Re: Too easy to get max resists?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:00 pm 

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My main character is a meteor sorc, untwinked. My bro is a maul druid, untwinked (except tomb reaver blue gave him).

Saying the game is "too easy" is a cry for reducing the power of the OP builds.


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 Post subject: Re: Too easy to get max resists?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:05 pm 
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drrod wrote:
I guess I shoulda posted this in the other thread?


Sounds like a good post to make over there. You raise some excellent points AND have the street cred to back them up.

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 Post subject: Re: Too easy to get max resists?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:10 pm 

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drrod wrote:
The problem with the thread asking to buff the game difficulty is I'd bet most of those players never even tried to go through the game without the top tier boss killing builds, never played HC, or never went through the game untwinked. This mod gets A LOT harder when you take away heavy crushing blow characters, poison, and hammers.



then maybe its a problem with certain builds.


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 Post subject: Re: Too easy to get max resists?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:14 pm 

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drrod wrote:

Everyone knows all the little tricks to getting through the mod easily by now, so naturally it isn't that hard if you know what you're doing and have a decent team. Bring in a fresh group of players and watch them try to get through this mod, it's far from easy. There's a huge learning curve.



thats something i did mention in the other thread... i said that i dont think most of the newcomers claiming its easy will find it so easy once the ladder reset comes. i would like to see this patch coming to a close somewhat soon and a new reset come in and make more educated posts when i get a full entire feeling with a new team on hardcore (ive only tried once on hardcore with a poorly put together team and have only made it as far as late nightmare untwinked...the effort to find a ton of players playing legitly with no twinking, character buffing, or rushing is too much to deal with right now). i dont see too many things needing changes now until we can get a fresh start and a clearer look at exactly how this mod is.


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