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 Post subject: Mang Song's Lesson
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 12:21 am 

Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:52 pm
Posts: 72
Unique Archon Staff lvl 90 Require:

+7 to Sorceress Skill Levels
-15-20% to Enemy Fire Resistance
-15-20% to Enemy Lightning Resistance
-15-20% to Enemy Cold Resistance
Regenerate Mana 50%
+66% Faster Cast Rate
+3-4 to Fire Mastery (Sorceress Only)
+3-4 to Lightning Mastery (Sorceress Only)
+3-4 to Cold Mastery (Sorceress Only)
Resist All +50%
Increase Maximum Life 25%
Increase Maximum Mana 25%

I think that this Staff needs something to make it better. It has some very impressive stats on it already, but compared to Fathom + Head Hunters Glory (which drop considerable more often than Mang Song's) it just can't compare.

These are the combined mods of Fathom + Head Hunters:

+5 to Sorceress Skill Levels
100% Chance to Cast Level 40 Bone Spear when Attacking
+50% Faster Cast Rate
Regenerate Mana 83%
-25% to Enemy Fire Resistance
-25% to Enemy Cold Resistance
-25% to Enemy Lightning Resistance
+25% to Fire Skill Damage
+25% to Lightning Skill Damage
+25% to Cold Skill Damage
Increased Maximum Mana 50%
+500 Defense
+300-400 Defense vs. Missiles
Resist All +40%
+45-60 Life After Each Kill
+33% Increased Chance of Blocking
+33% Faster Block Rate
Replenish Life +33
+45-60 to Mana After Each Kill
Socketed (3) Weapon
Socketed (2) Shield

Look at the huge advantage that that has over the staff in mods, not to mention the sockets AND block.. If you put 2 Uber Diamonds into shield which is very common it takes the resists to 100 which is double Mang Song. If you put Uber Sapphire, Topaz, or Ruby gems into the Fathom that takes the -Res from 25 to 61% compared to a Perfect Mang Song's -32% with only 1 Uber Gem.

Mang Song does have a nice little life/mana boost by 25% but if you ask me the life/mana after each kill provided by Head Hunters is way better unless your killing a boss which isnt that often, and at least you would have some block with Head Hunters for bosses anyways.

I think Mang's Song Lesson should be:

+9 to Sorceress Skill Levels
-25% to Enemy Fire Resistance
-25% to Enemy Lightning Resistance
-25% to Enemy Cold Resistance
Regenerate Mana 50%
+66% Faster Cast Rate
+3-4 to Fire Mastery (Sorceress Only)
+3-4 to Lightning Mastery (Sorceress Only)
+3-4 to Cold Mastery (Sorceress Only)
Resist All +100%
Increase Maximum Life 50%
Increase Maximum Mana 50%
Socketed (4)

and, not sure if this is possible but Randomly have 1 of these lvl 5 Auras on equip:

Holy Freeze
Holy Fire
Holy Shock


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 Post subject: Re: Mang Song's Lesson
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 3:18 am 
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Posts: 1627
+7 skill is max on a single item
remove +masteries and add +1LR(maybe nerf -res then).
+50% all res, 100% is too much, using 2h wpns must have some downsides, for res you go 1h/shield
maybe +10 clay golem oskill or 20 charges 20lvl clay


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 Post subject: Re: Mang Song's Lesson
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:09 am 
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Give Mah Jong 6 sockets and +100 resists.

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 Post subject: Re: Mang Song's Lesson
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:50 am 

Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:21 am
Posts: 197
Even Ondal's is better than Mang Song's.


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 Post subject: Re: Mang Song's Lesson
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 4:10 pm 
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Posts: 15
+50% max life seems kinda high to me, maybe up to fcr to like 80%, drop the life to ~25%, leave mana and regen at 50%, drop the -res to 15%, and give it like lvl 10 LR Oskill, and drop the res, thats too much for a 2-hander, end resulst would be

+7 to Sorceress Skill Levels
-15% to Enemy Fire Resistance
-15% to Enemy Lightning Resistance
-15% to Enemy Cold Resistance
Regenerate Mana 50%
+80% Faster Cast Rate
+3-4 to Fire Mastery (Sorceress Only)
+3-4 to Lightning Mastery (Sorceress Only)
+3-4 to Cold Mastery (Sorceress Only)
+10 to Lower Resist
Resist All +50%
Increase Maximum Life 25%
Increase Maximum Mana 50%
Socketed (4)

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 Post subject: Re: Mang Song's Lesson
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 4:34 pm 
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thats 1 too many properties, max is 12

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 Post subject: Re: Mang Song's Lesson
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 5:17 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:21 am
Posts: 197
Don't need the +mastery on it. Looks nice but does very little.


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 Post subject: Re: Mang Song's Lesson
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 5:28 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:52 pm
Posts: 72
WolfStar wrote:
Even Ondal's is better than Mang Song's.


This is a very very good point. Ondals destroys Mang Song.

+100% Faster Cast Rate (compare at 66%)
Socketed (4) (compare at 1 socket)
+7 to All Skills (compare to 7 Sorc Skills)
Damage Reduced by 33
Magic Damage Reduced by 33
Regenerate Mana 100% (compare at 50%)
Increase Maximum Life 33% (compare at 25%)
Increase Maximum Mana 33% (compared at 25%)
+1 to Battle Orders (OSKILL) (compare at no 0Skill)
+50% Increased Run/Walk Speed
Resist All +100% (compare at 50%)
Level 30 Spirit Blades (30 Charges)

Steel wrote:
+7 skill is max on a single item
remove +masteries and add +1LR(maybe nerf -res then).
+50% all res, 100% is too much, using 2h wpns must have some downsides, for res you go 1h/shield
maybe +10 clay golem oskill or 20 charges 20lvl clay


There is already huge downsides to using staffs on a Sorc. Look at all the nice mods you can get with 1 hand. My sorc uses Thirst + 24% Damaged Reduced Head Hunters. That makes Mang Song look like a exceptional unique.

Why doesn't anyone want 100% resist all on Mang Song? Ondals has it, and Head Hunters Glory with 2 Uber Diamonds has it too. It's not overpowered. especially considering its a staff.

You can put 3 uber Sapphire (if we were using on a cold Sorc) into Ondals and have more -Res than a perfect Mang Song with 1 Uber Sapphire with 1 socket to spare...

I like the +1 Lower Resist 0Skill idea and I think the % life and mana on Mangs needs to be at least 33% each. I don't think the 50% I am suggesting is really too much. I also think it should be upgraded to a lvl 95 item. It drops about the same as Dhorn and Dscale.

So how about..

+7 to Sorceress Skill Levels
+10 Lower Resist 0Skill
Regenerate Mana 100%
+100% Faster Cast Rate
+3-4 to Fire Mastery (Sorceress Only)
+3-4 to Lightning Mastery (Sorceress Only)
+3-4 to Cold Mastery (Sorceress Only)
Resist All +100%
Increase Maximum Life 33%
Increase Maximum Mana 50%
Socketed (3)


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 Post subject: Re: Mang Song's Lesson
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 10:52 pm 
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Posts: 15
Sugarbean wrote:

+7 to Sorceress Skill Levels
+10 Lower Resist 0Skill
Regenerate Mana 100%
+100% Faster Cast Rate
+3-4 to Fire Mastery (Sorceress Only)
+3-4 to Lightning Mastery (Sorceress Only)
+3-4 to Cold Mastery (Sorceress Only)
Resist All +100%
Increase Maximum Life 33%
Increase Maximum Mana 50%
Socketed (3)


yeah, id compromise and go with that one, id use it :D
still think the res should be lower, but good point about the ondals having it too

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 Post subject: Re: Mang Song's Lesson
PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:07 am 
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-Fireclaw keeping that on switch, cast LR and switch to his standard ias wpn. ownage.

-Sorcs breaking their best weakness: immunities.

LR 0skill is OP.


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 Post subject: Re: Mang Song's Lesson
PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:33 am 

Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:53 am
Posts: 212
tonykantos wrote:
-Fireclaw keeping that on switch, cast LR and switch to his standard ias wpn. ownage.

-Sorcs breaking their best weakness: immunities.

LR 0skill is OP.




I don't think that a Wolf or Bear can cast curses while in bear form. Might be wrong on this though. But they would have to transform into human, weapon swap, cast, weapon swap, transform, attack. I guess if they wanted to do that for every monster group the could +negate the high price that sorceresses would be willing to pay for Mang Song since if those changes were made it would be really good. Also Mang Song drops like Dscale and Dhorn, so few people would have it anyways and if they did why not let them have lower res. I like the idea

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 Post subject: Re: Mang Song's Lesson
PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:35 pm 
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tonykantos wrote:
-Fireclaw keeping that on switch, cast LR and switch to his standard ias wpn. ownage.

-Sorcs breaking their best weakness: immunities.

LR 0skill is OP.


Agreed on the op, but remember that a shapeshifter need to unshift before casting a curse. That makes a "Time" on switch a better choice imo.


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 Post subject: Re: Mang Song's Lesson
PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 7:09 pm 
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Location: Reno, NV
tonykantos wrote:
-Fireclaw keeping that on switch, cast LR and switch to his standard ias wpn. ownage.

-Sorcs breaking their best weakness: immunities.

LR 0skill is OP.



Your first point is so incredibly wrong it's not even funny.

First off, a Fireclaw Bear would have to Unshift to cast Lower Resist. This not only makes him incredibly vulnerable, it's a huge waste of time every time you need lower resist.

Secondly, we already have the Time Staff, which is a 100% chance to cast level 10 Lower Resist on striking. This weapon has 99% IAS and on a Fireclaw Druid can hit 4FPA with an Archon Time Staff. This makes it very easy to apply lower resists.

I'm not advocating adding OSkill Lower Resist to a sorc item, I find that a little ridiculous, but you should definitely know your shit before you start throwing out completely wrong examples of brokenness and how the game works.


EDIT: Damn, post got hella jacked.

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 Post subject: Re: Mang Song's Lesson
PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:59 pm 
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all the staff needs is 4-5 sockets

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 Post subject: Re: Mang Song's Lesson
PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:36 pm 
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PureRage-DoD wrote:
all the staff needs is 4-5 sockets


this is the cheapest and easiest solution. even 3 sockets makes a big difference since the ubber gems got buffed


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 Post subject: Re: Mang Song's Lesson
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:34 pm 
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I'd go for CTC lvl 10 LR when stuck, but not 0skill lvl 10 LR or even 0skill lvl 1 LR. Too OP.

It may be possible to X the LR all together and add reanimate horadrim ancient for the conviction. This way we don't turn the sorc into a solo boss killing machine.....again.

I'd also like to see some FHR on this badboy.

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 Post subject: Re: Mang Song's Lesson
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:36 pm 
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FuryCury wrote:
It may be possible to X the LR all together and add reanimate horadrim ancient for the conviction. This way we don't turn the sorc into a solo boss killing machine.....again.


Sorcs would rip stuff up with constant conviction rolling from the horadrim ancients. I would think that would be worse than giving them LR.

Granted, there are plenty of bosses where it is hard to get revives up, but there are enough (such as nihla) that make it a valid concern. I already think that it spawning on the wand is pretty brutal.

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 Post subject: Re: Mang Song's Lesson
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:26 am 
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its depressing that stillwater, flame and starlight are ALL better than this "High end" staff. Give it a decent amount of sockets. fathom has max sockets, why not 4 or even 5 on this? As fury says some fhr would be a big help too since you will need fhr with no way to block.

Remove the masterys and give it 7 sorc skills, +1 all skills, sink some fhr on it (50 seems ok to me) and give it 4 sockets. there you have a sorc weapon that would be chosen over fathom and a shield. give it a level 95 req too.

this will give it just slightly more -res than a gem'd fathom, and 3 more skills.
You lose a shield to block with and gain res/dr from so it seems like a fair trade off to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Mang Song's Lesson
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:29 am 

Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:21 am
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PureRage-DoD wrote:
its depressing that stillwater, flame and starlight are ALL better than this "High end" staff. Give it a decent amount of sockets. fathom has max sockets, why not 4 or even 5 on this? As fury says some fhr would be a big help too since you will need fhr with no way to block.

Remove the masterys and give it 7 sorc skills, +1 all skills, sink some fhr on it (50 seems ok to me) and give it 4 sockets. there you have a sorc weapon that would be chosen over fathom and a shield. give it a level 95 req too.

this will give it just slightly more -res than a gem'd fathom, and 3 more skills.
You lose a shield to block with and gain res/dr from so it seems like a fair trade off to me.


This sounds good to me. A staff is supposed to have more pure damage than a weapon+shield, as a shield gives you block/def/socket options for res. Weapon+shield for safety, staff for damage. I'm not sure the staff should give more res than a shield with diamonds in it, though. FHR, though, I agree with.


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