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 Post subject: -res versus +res/+skills
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:38 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:21 am
Posts: 197
How do I determine the point at which getting -res is worth losing skill points/+res damage? I assume there is no easy way. I am ditching the tal set for flickering flame (-29 res) and other random junk that gives my meteor like a 6k boost, maybe 8k, but the tal set overall gives me -40 res. Only a mere -10 difference, but how do I compare? It is hard to know since there is nothing on the character screen with -res to compare to...


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 Post subject: Re: -res versus +res/+skills
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:06 pm 

Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:09 am
Posts: 736
keep the flickering flame unless the other set mods are that much better (defensively).

in general, i would think you would like at least -60 end game for powerful dps characters. some situations call for more -res, others call for more damage. since monster res fluctuates quickly (between different areas, monsters, acts), sometimes -res works better and sometimes more damage works better (a 99 res monster needs a lot more -res; on the other hand, a 0 res monster needs a lot more damage). you want to keep a general rule of thumb of "balance"...if you see your gear severely lacking one or the other, balance it out.

as a sorc, since you have a mastery for damage already, keep to +skills and -res. %skill damage will have the smallest effect since your mastery should already be multiple 100s %. +skills not only increase the skill damage itself, but also mastery, which gives you more %skill damage. my cold sorc was waiting for level 95 to wear a fathom with 3 uber sapphires for a total of -61 res. Templars was another source of -res, and then lastly i got a couple of facets for the templars. Besides that, gear wise i was focusing on skills and surviving. Conviction, lower resist, or holy freeze from either a party member or a merc sufficed for the rest of the pierce.


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 Post subject: Re: -res versus +res/+skills
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:11 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:21 am
Posts: 197
I have like -79 res, and I definitely need more resistance for myself. Cold is -10, so I'll work on that. Thanks. :)


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 Post subject: Re: -res versus +res/+skills
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:14 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:28 am
Posts: 1141
Location: Vancouver, BC
It should be pretty easy to compare I think. There's only 3 things to consider.

Your damage formula is just:
Damage = BaseSkillDmg * SynergyBonus * Mastery * (100% - EnemyRes)

BaseSkillDmg only benefits from +Skills
SynergyBonus is static and predetermined for all skills but Cleansing and Meditation, in general this isn't considered since it doesn't change.
Mastery = SorcMastery + (+%Mastery from all gear, such as facets)
EnemyRes = normal resistance of monster lowered by -%Res gear

When you consider a new piece of equipment, just consider it's change from your previous equipment.

Example:
BaseSkillDmg = 1000
Synergybonus = 500%
Mastery = 200%
EnemyRes = 0% (also 0% -%Res)
Damage = 1000 * (100% + 500%) * (100% + 200%) * (100%-0%) = 18000 dmg

New gear will drop BaseSkillDmg to 800, and lowers Mastery by 30%, but increases -Res% by 20%

BaseSkillDmg = 800
SynergyBonus = 500%
Mastery = 170%
EnemyRes = -20%
Damage = 800 * (100% + 500%) * (100% + 170%) * (100% + 20%) = 15500

In this example, where the enemy didn't resist your damage to begin with, then dropping your base skill damage by 20%, while lowering enemy res by 20%, there was a decrease in your damage mostly due to loss of MasteryBonus. This is a good example for Norm difficulty, where monster res are low (+Skills and +%Matery gear are great).

In NM and Hell, just assume that monster res starts off higher, maybe 30% and 60% respectively. In those cases, the example changes to:

NM before = 12600
NM after = 11700 (-20% res still doesn't make up for a drop in 20% base dmg)

Hell before = 7200
Hell after = 7800 (-20% Res finally becomes worthwhile despite 20% drop in base dmg and lower mastery)

These examples illustrate why Convictors are alright even in Hell diffiulty. Their damage doesn't change much, but everyone else's got lowered drastically (50% for phys-dmg chars (lowered only 15% to 30% if they've got a high level Amp)). HU was balanced around the "Everyone Else" category.


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 Post subject: Re: -res versus +res/+skills
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:39 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:21 am
Posts: 197
Oh thanks, that's good to know. :D


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 Post subject: Re: -res versus +res/+skills
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:21 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:21 am
Posts: 197
Does this mean lowering an enemy's resistance to below zero is worth it? Or should I only have the -60 res needed to counter an enemy's resistance in hell and then focus the rest of my gear towards skills?


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 Post subject: Re: -res versus +res/+skills
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:35 pm 

Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:09 am
Posts: 736
im pretty sure (not 100% though, confirm with a second source) that monster res is capped at -100 res (like players are). Will definitely be worth it to get over 100 pierce if you can make that without a large sacrifice in skills or survivability. -100 res will double your damage on a monster with 0 res, be 4 times as effective as a monster with 50 res.


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 Post subject: Re: -res versus +res/+skills
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:21 am 

Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:21 am
Posts: 197
Oh thank you, very good to know. :)


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