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 Post subject: Zeal Sorc, Help
PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:36 pm 

Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 5:10 pm
Posts: 12
My build so far is,
Skills
20 warmth
20 enchant
20 fire mastery
16 telekenesis
3 energy shield
5 hydra

Gear
Helm: Tal Helm (3 Starstone Skulls)
Amulet:Tal Amulet
Wpn: Passion (Dimensional Blade)
Shield: Crafted Elemental Shield, -11% enemy fire resistance
Armor: Heavenly Garb
Gloves: Lava Gout
Boots: Infernostride
Rings: SoJ//Crafted +1 sorc skills w/ +8% fire skill dmg
Belt: Tal Belt

My damage is 7650-13k with ~ -50% enemy fire resistance.

Stats w/ Gear
Str: 96
Dexterity: 135
Vitality: 35
Energy: 227

Whenever I go to kill a boss, my Mana pool which is a total of 2630 gets burnt in one second. Therefore I'm left vulnerable to last not much longer.

Do you guys have any recommendations on what I could do better?

Thanks,
ZeViX


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 Post subject: Re: Zeal Sorc, Help
PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:25 pm 

Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:09 am
Posts: 736
theres one big disadvantage to energy shield (as long as it still works the same as in regular/lod d2). your mana gets damaged before any res or sorbs get kicked in. so normally, lets say a nightmare diablo fire nova (the big circle he casts that extends a couple screens) does 1k damage (just making numbers up). with 75 fire res you are only taking 250 damage from that. however, in the case of energy shield (lets say you have a 95% eshield), 950 damage will be done to your mana bulb first, then the other 50 damage goes to your life, which then factors in the res, meaning its only doing 12.5 damage to your life bulb.

im not sure about DR% factoring into eshield before or after damage is done to mana. youd have to ask someone else.

one thing you will no doubt need is a ton of high life/mana small charms. i dont see an enchant zeal sorc being very effective without a very high cost of gear.

one weakness in your gear is definitely the heavenly garb. instead, you should look into exceptional level uniques or craft an amethyst armor. the amethyst armor will give you a nice boost of base mana, and you can put 4 sockets into a craft, allowing you to put 4 starstone sapphires for a nice boost in maximum mana and energy. atmas wail and que hagens armors are very nice options in the unique section for exceptional armors. you are a bit lacking in the maximum mana % department, which you will need to balance with your %mana regeneration (which is why skulls in tals helm is iffy...they seem ok but you should have plenty of mana regen already from warmth and +skills...leave them be for the moment though). maximum mana % will not only boost your mana, but indirectly the mana regen as well.

shield seems alright but you could also look into something like lidless or headhunters, and then socket it with a fire facet or 2, or go defensive. either way, you will want to socket your crafted shield if thats what you want to stick with. jahs in your shield may be a great idea... 100 life and mana per jah is fantastic, and then both of those get multiplied by max life/mana % (especially if you are stacking a lot of mana... 4 jahs in your shield could potentially mean like 1k+ mana easily).

you will need a cta or ondals on switch... you need BO to increase both the life and mana pools.

the tals combo you have is fine i think...it gives some great mana bonuses (50% partial set bonus from 3 pieces is nice).

lavagouts are a DEFINITE NO! and heres why: they have a ctc enchant on striking, overriding your enchant. its a shame too because it has so many other good mods. ruby or amethyst craft gloves can work well here.

get a second soj instead of the craft...unless that craft offers some godly mods, 8% fire skill damage isnt gonna up your enchant damage by a lot at all...maybe a couple hundred at most. youll have enough %fire skill damage from fire mastery already. 15-30% maximum mana wins out here, and +1 all instead of +1 sorc increases zeal's ar% and increases BO on switch.


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 Post subject: Re: Zeal Sorc, Help
PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:59 pm 
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Location: Vancouver, BC
Since mana is taken from Energy Shield only when the hit is not evaded or blocked, you should consider increasing those qualities. If you also concentrate on dr/mdr (i.e. diamonds), then you should take no damage to your health, at least from trash. That will prevent the need of dr% and resistances (to some extent). Very high mana is no longer possible in HU (saphires were changed because rubies were found to be overpowered). You might never be able to tank bosses, so consider a distance-attack like exploding arrows or similar.

Consider these changes:

1) Amythest Crafted ring to replace your elemental ring (+8%Fire is just +2 FMastery to you). Amythest Crafts are alright for getting high mana in HU (this ring alone could give over 250 mana).
2) Amythest Crafted Elite Boots. These have automod +20-40% mana, along with +75-150 mana.
3) Saphire Crafted Elite shield. This has automods of lvl 12 FrozenArmor (375% EDef, 6 dr/mdr) on struck, +20-40% increased chance blocking, +200-400 ARating. You could socket it with amythests to increase your block speed (which sucks otherwise) and chance. Sorcs can be block-locked pretty easily.
3) "Call to Arms" or Ondal's staff on switch. These give you BattleOrders oSkill, which is probably good for another 50% mana and life.
4) "Myth" throwing weapon (ChamBerSur) - use BladeFury oSkill instead of Zeal. Unfortunately this offers little else except for +3AllSkills and IgnoreTargetDefence (doesn't work on bosses).
5) Wizardspike dagger. This has zeal, but unfortunately will increase your Manashield by 3 (you will lose more mana per hit, which sucks because your diamonds would have removed that damage anyways). Also, daggers have range 1, so your zeal will auto-miss when it auto-targets enemies at range 2 (this is hardcoded into Zeal). You may have to alt+click to stand beside monsters that can attack you in melee range 2+. This dagger's durability is very low. The good point of this dagger is the 100%MLeach and +40% max mana.
6) "Insight" weapon on either an A2 NM Prayer merc (converts some critters to help take melee-attention from you and merc), or an A5 merc (can stun critters to help take melee-attention from you and merc, and can wear heavy-defensive shield with "Insight" Scourge). "Insight" has lvl 10 Meditation (275% mana regen for party)
7) Emerald-crafted armor with diamonds. Automods of 180-320% EDef, 10-20 dr/mdr. Socketed with diamonds for possibly 80 dr/mdr and +1200 def. This will improve your defence a lot.

Here is the order in which a monster's hit is deflected before it damages you (I'm not 100% confident in the order of some steps since these can be hard to test):

1) Miss because of your defence
2) Miss because of your block (shield, claw)
3) Miss because of your skills (Evade, Dodge)
< The monster has hit you >
1) Damage is removed from Bone Armor or Cyclone Armor
2) Damage is split between HP and Mana (Energy Shield). The damage to mana is doubled, but reduced by 6.25% per point of Telekinesis. Level 20 TK means you lose only 0.75 mana per point of damage.
3) Damage to HP is reduced by dr/mdr
< You will take damage >
1) Damage is modified by your resistances (negative res will increase damage, positive res will reduce it), either elemental or physical.
< You have taken Damage >
1) If your life total is less than 1, and you are shape-shifted, then you revert to human form. If you are not shape-shifted, then you died.
2) You gain life based on your absorb%

<edit> My suggestions were made before reading Muleofal's post. His suggestions were very good too. However, I've never witnessed a higher-level skill being replaced by a lower level one (I've proven that HShield, Fade, and BoSpeed can not be overridden).</edit>


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 Post subject: Re: Zeal Sorc, Help
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 12:22 am 

Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:09 am
Posts: 736
Brevan wrote:
<edit> My suggestions were made before reading Muleofal's post. His suggestions were very good too. However, I've never witnessed a higher-level skill being replaced by a lower level one (I've proven that HShield, Fade, and BoSpeed can not be overridden).</edit>


the barb warcries override eachother. lower level curses can override higher level curses.

ive never heard of this that youve mentioned. a simple test could be done though. cast enchant, attack some weak things until you see enchant being casted on you from the item itself, and see if it overrides or not (make sure to post your findings here zevix)


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 Post subject: Re: Zeal Sorc, Help
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 12:44 am 

Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 5:10 pm
Posts: 12
Thankyou for the input, I really appreciate it. 8-)


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 Post subject: Re: Zeal Sorc, Help
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 1:09 am 
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I didn't consider the warcries and curses. I agree they override each other. For testing the skills I mentioned, I just cast the skill, removed a +1 ring and tried to override the skill (can't). Perhaps single-target buffs can not be overridden, while multi-target buffs can be.

I just now tested Fade using DrowStrike knives (5% lvl 5 Fade onStruck) They didn't override my level 8 Fade after standing in fire for about 3 minutes. After the lvl 8 Fade wore off, the level 5 Fade proced within 10 seconds of standing in the fire (I've seen this take like 60 seconds though, but surely 3 minutes is enough of a test).

I tested Enchant using Lavagout (5% lvl 10 Enchant onStrike). I cast lvl 16 Enchant, then went for Bishbosh's area in norm. I killed ressurected fallen over and over for about 15 minutes (probably killed over 500). At 5% chance to cast, there's a 50:50 chance of Enchant being cast within 13 strikes. Zevix should still do an independant test.


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 Post subject: Re: Zeal Sorc, Help
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:36 am 
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low chant wont override high chant.

2.7kmana isvery very low. you shouldbe able to break 10k mana without bo pretty easily. Your strength will only come once you get insanely high levels of mana.

Lets say you are recovering a full mana orb of 1k over 15 secs with all your regen equip on+ warmth etc. If you increase your mana to 10k you will still recover the full orb in 15 secs. then if you are bo'd and raised to say 15k mana, you still recover the full orb in 15 seconds (1k mana per sec) thats before mana leech is factored in too. An ES sorc needs insanely high amounts of mana to put it to full use. I make alot of sorcs with es so i'm used to going for all mana charms and equip. Mana charms are easy to come by and can be higher than life charms can. Caster craft boots are a must, you may want to consider at least 1 perf (or near perf) SoJ for the massive mana boost.

A friend of mine had an es sorc with well over 10k mana earlier in the season. along with my healers level 20 medi she could stand toe to toe with bosses like the cold dragon etc and spam tk without taking any damage to mana at all. The recovery of that mana buld was about 6-7 secs iirc. Thats whare the power of energy shield really comes into play. Massive mana regen is a vital part. That requires massive amounts of mana.

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 Post subject: Re: Zeal Sorc, Help
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:16 am 

Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:09 am
Posts: 736
yea one thing that struck me is that 2.7k mana on a sorc is not very high at all. whats your stat allocation like without gear?

id say you should be going full energy allocation from here on out. you should really aim for about 400 base energy before gear kicks in.


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 Post subject: Re: Zeal Sorc, Help
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 12:15 pm 

Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:09 am
Posts: 736
by the way, what is the new maximum mana for small charms?


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 Post subject: Re: Zeal Sorc, Help
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 1:38 pm 

Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 5:10 pm
Posts: 12
My stats without gear:

90 strength
125 dexterity
35 vitality
215 energy

I was shooting for a maximum block build, and as of right now my inventory is loaded with a bunch of charms for FHR.


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 Post subject: Re: Zeal Sorc, Help
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:02 pm 
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Location: Vancouver, BC
muleofal wrote:
by the way, what is the new maximum mana for small charms?
17 mana for SCharms (lvl 40 to use), 59 for GCharms (lvl 41).
ZeViX wrote:
My stats without gear:...
That's pretty spread-out, which is fine for a first-time through HU. Now that you've probably collected more gear for your build, and you have a better idea of exactly where you need to spend points, you might want to remake the sorc and be as efficient as possible. Amythests in a saphire-crafted shield will allow you to move most of that dex into energy. Rethinking your gear might allow you to move quite a bit of that str into energy too.

You might want to remake "Passion" in something else. I think a superior Knout with enhanced durability would be best. They have Range 3, -10 base speed, and 80 durability. The Dimension blade as Range 2, -5 speed, and 75 durability. However, Knout is 96 str required.


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 Post subject: Re: Zeal Sorc, Help
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:17 pm 

Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:09 am
Posts: 736
Brevan wrote:
17 mana for SCharms (lvl 40 to use), 59 for GCharms (lvl 41).


i thought it was the same as vanilla... im guessing 20/17s still exist as well?

by the way (a bit off topic sorry), is there a list of affixes somewhere for HU? i know that a lot may be similar to vanilla, but there are plenty that ive seen that are changes in level or new affixes.

and another thing, what about a base weapon of a divine scepter/caduceus? those i know have very good speed and pretty low requirements, as well as a good balanced base damage. maybe something like that would be a decent idea for passion if you can make the runeword in that base. im not sure about its exact range and speed but theyre definitely weapons to consider.


Last edited by muleofal on Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Zeal Sorc, Help
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:20 pm 
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Yes, 20 life 17 mana SCharms still exist. It's max 50 life 59 mana for GC. My numbers are just being pulled from the text files in the HU folder. If you open them up in a spreadsheet program, it's fairly easy to figure out.


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 Post subject: Re: Zeal Sorc, Help
PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:58 pm 

Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:09 am
Posts: 736
Brevan wrote:
My numbers are just being pulled from the text files in the HU folder. If you open them up in a spreadsheet program, it's fairly easy to figure out.


really? i tried opening all of the files in the extracted HU folder with excel, and nothing was openable. anything i tried to open in word turned into a bunch of weird characters and computer code. i only was able to open a couple of files (the 1.21z updated one and another one i forget).

what is the file called? maybe i missed it or maybe i am using the wrong program, but i felt excel wouldve been perfectly fine.


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 Post subject: Re: Zeal Sorc, Help
PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 1:08 pm 
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On my computer, the location is:
C:\Program Files\HU\Data\Global\Excel

I've attached the two text files for magic-item mods (both prefix and suffix).


Attachments:
MagicItemMods.zip [21.43 KiB]
Downloaded 444 times
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 Post subject: Re: Zeal Sorc, Help
PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 1:19 pm 

Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:09 am
Posts: 736
thanks a bunch. i was looking in the wrong place.


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 Post subject: Re: Zeal Sorc, Help
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:12 am 

Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:36 am
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Zeal builds run light mastery maxed, utilizing the holy shock aura to deal massive damage. They were never one for survivability, but I do suggest running Wiz spike's zeal for more mana/res.


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 Post subject: Re: Zeal Sorc, Help
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:37 am 
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Keep in mind that the only Holy Shock available in HU is lvl 20, which is about 375 dmg. Even at 400% LMastery, it's still just 1.9k. In Vanilla, you could equip two "Dreams" and aura-bug them to whatever level of HShock you wanted.

I know Zevix has tried the Wiz Spike, and uses it for bosses, but I agree that it's hard to use that dagger for anything other than a very short fight due to durability issues (it needs to be repaired like once a minute or close). It's a nice dagger for the build otherwise.


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 Post subject: Re: Zeal Sorc, Help
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:15 pm 

Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 5:10 pm
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Yeah, the Wizardspike works great. What I end up doing is keeping two on me for bosses, and when one of them breaks during a boss fight I'll drop it for someone to repair and equip the other. In total I went through 5 Smith Forge Runes in an 8 pop Normal Diablo. If I could, I'd socket it with a Zod.

Thank you for all your input in my post and I've seen drastic improvements in my sorceress already.

My mana pool is around 5,000 self-buffed now although I'm still struggling to get it higher.


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