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 Post subject: Soulmancer Boss
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 1:52 am 

Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:06 pm
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So... Anyone managed to kill him online yet?
I just came back from a long break and found out about that boss. Edited a zon on single player with some retarded items (3kk strafe damage, maxed resists/dr%/dr/mdr) and went all happy into the Great Void.
Got my ass handed to me.
Im intrigued. His spells are almost undodgeable, depending on where you are whne he casts them, and he seens to have an endless pool of HP, my 3kk strafes damaged him for ~15% of his hp before he killed me.

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 Post subject: Re: Soulmancer Boss
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 4:19 am 
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We've killed him twice last ladder.(posted screens somewhere)

He is impossible to kill without some special tactic(which I won't describe ofc) because his wave is made in a retarded way killing everyone no matter of hp/res etc. as missiles hit multiple time per frame.He is not challenging at all, just silly, not worth 5 min of your time.


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 Post subject: Re: Soulmancer Boss
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 5:03 am 
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that cold wave needs replaced with something that requires actual strategy, not cheese tactics.
(retarded multihitting spell that covers the entire screen is retarded...)

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 Post subject: Re: Soulmancer Boss
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:25 pm 

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is he possible to solo with editted gear, but no godlike hack? just curious... My zon is probably at DR cap and has a metric shitload of HP, just enough not to bug out and never go up (You know the bug). Also, if he wasnt psn immune my (insert really big string of numbers) damage level 101 poison jav with full inv of psn skill damage small charms would one shot him like it dd with all other bosses. maxed LR wont remove the immunity :(

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 Post subject: Re: Soulmancer Boss
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 3:13 pm 
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The massive multihit damage wave that soulmancer casts is actually pure cold damage. Furthermore Soulmancer has -100 enemy cold resists (meaning you would have to stack your resists 100 above max in order for soulmancer to not pierce you and cause massive damage because of it and this is not even getting into him using LR curse on you to further pierce your resists).

You are going to need HUGE cold protection to survive that massive cold wave. I just simply haven't heard of anyone actually going to the bother of getting 300+ cold resist on their gear (to deal with both the hell resist penalty and soulmancer's 100 cold pierce) +40% cold absorb to actually take this brutal boss on.


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 Post subject: Re: Soulmancer Boss
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 5:08 pm 

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Baerk wrote:
The massive multihit damage wave that soulmancer casts is actually pure cold damage. Furthermore Soulmancer has -100 enemy cold resists (meaning you would have to stack your resists 100 above max in order for soulmancer to not pierce you and cause massive damage because of it and this is not even getting into him using LR curse on you to further pierce your resists).

You are going to need HUGE cold protection to survive that massive cold wave. I just simply haven't heard of anyone actually going to the bother of getting 300+ cold resist on their gear (to deal with both the hell resist penalty and soulmancer's 100 cold pierce) +40% cold absorb to actually take this brutal boss on.


Tried it, stacked it, and jam packed it to retarded amounts! Not to mention combined with huge life buffs and all the other types of damage mitigation! Still cant take more than two shots!

Needs to go or be made a little more forgiving so its not just so un-balanced

It's impossible to do anything other than the tactic Steel used!

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 Post subject: Re: Soulmancer Boss
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 5:56 pm 
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How about some actual numbers instead of saying a lot? (Steel's beating of it did not even have properly stacked cold resist let alone true heavy cold absorb) Being vague on the range you were from Soulmancer is one thing since it's not like you have some display to say how many yards you actually were from the enemy. However, that extended stat screen makes tallying the actual resist and absorb amounts very easy.

Also one further point... has anyone actually attempted mid range tanking? Basically the DPSers stands at sniping range while the tank has the boss's attention from the opposite direction so that all the ice waves the boss fires are aimed away from the DPSers and just simply at the decoying tank. Even if it is not tankable at point blank range due to the shotgun effect it should atleast be tankable at mid range.


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 Post subject: Re: Soulmancer Boss
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 6:36 pm 
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He killed my 20k-hp-with-self-bo-and-oak fire dru in 2 shoots from AFAR (unshift first, then died). Even if I stacked 600 cold res and 40 cold abs and he took 40% of my hp from AFAR, how much would he take from melee stance? and how long would that fight last? 5-10min? how much juvs would you need?

I've survived his wave a few times with a trapper when only few missiles hit her, leaving me with around 500 hp from 8.2k

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Steel's beating of it did not even have properly stacked cold resist let alone true heavy cold absorb
Yet I've succeeded... and I can say he's made impossible to beat in "a legit way". You can try him on single player with cheated char and you'll see why.

And pls stop saying someone isn't well prepared, Overkill stated he did it with maxed pdr/mdr res etc you can possibly achive within d2 limits and he failed. Unless you have your numbers and you actually beat him with a team, in what I doubt.

And I don't care if he's gonna be made easier or harder. I'm just saying his not worth anyones time. I spent 40min of mine to save you doing it. His cold wave is retarded. other things about him are ok. Ah I dream about days when you could defeat the hardest bosses just like the omega weapon in ff8 using only zombie + protect status (100% dmg reduction)... omega was challenging nevertheless... or ozma killing herself countering maxed thievery/dragon crest/throw/Atomos... on lvl1 :D.


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 Post subject: Re: Soulmancer Boss
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 8:03 pm 

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Well, im puzzled. How long it took and +how many people it took to DPS him down, steel? my nine digits strafe wasnt effective at all.

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 Post subject: Re: Soulmancer Boss
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 8:11 pm 
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It should be noted soulmancer has 139 soft immune physical resist as well as 99 base resists in the rest of the non poison elements. You are going to need some serious pierce to actually hurt the Soulmancer boss. Besides... 9 digit damage rolls over even in diablo 1.10 (so you were definately not inflicting the damage you think you were inflicting). 6 maybe 7 digit damage is as high you can hope to get without having damage rolling over on you causing you to inflict nothing.

Steel was using a lightning trap asn.


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 Post subject: Re: Soulmancer Boss
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 11:25 pm 

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Baerk wrote:
It should be noted soulmancer has 139 soft immune physical resist as well as 99 base resists in the rest of the non poison elements. You are going to need some serious pierce to actually hurt the Soulmancer boss. Besides... 9 digit damage rolls over even in diablo 1.10 (so you were definately not inflicting the damage you think you were inflicting). 6 maybe 7 digit damage is as high you can hope to get without having damage rolling over on you causing you to inflict nothing.

Steel was using a lightning trap asn.

Its sad, ill attempt with a mpossible high pierce lightning sorc and a impossible high pierce blizz and a meeteor. AND the sin.

Did he take 40 minutes with the sin?

Edit:
And so it ends.
2729k damage hydra one shots soulmancer with 8670 pierce.
Will try again to see if he kills me wth 130 MDR, 40% cold absorb and 75 cold resist.

Edit 2:
Nope, damage is survivable with pots. I guess maxed cold resist and 40% sorb is enough to tank the cold stuff. (and 130 mdr)
However, his meteor took away a considerable amount of my 14k hp, and i guess it would one shot anyone.
Meteor is dodgeable tho. Its sad that the cold still damages me even with all those defensive stats, indeed a overtuned boss.

Question: Having more pierce than the boss has resists increases my damage or just deals the full damage and wastes the extra pierce?

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 Post subject: Re: Soulmancer Boss
PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 3:34 am 
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40min, second time about 30.Trapper + Fire Druid.


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 Post subject: Re: Soulmancer Boss
PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 5:45 am 
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erm, baerk. theres nothing good about a skill that multihits and deals such rediculous damage to THE WHOLE SCREEN. that skill has fail written all over it.

Stuff that covers such a huge area should have small damage, major damage should come in the form of single missile attacks etc. ATM all you done is make it required to have dodge/avoid/clawblock. Why not add the damage of 10 missiles up and have a single missile instead...

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 Post subject: Re: Soulmancer Boss
PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 9:44 am 
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What does he drop anyway?

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 Post subject: Re: Soulmancer Boss
PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 9:52 am 
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he drops the hero's reward,
req lvl 101 and 2-3 all skills.

http://hudb.arimyth.com/uniques/charms

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 Post subject: Re: Soulmancer Boss
PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 1:10 pm 

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Kruno wrote:
What does he drop anyway?


what ki4 said and a shitload of 95 uniques, i got 3 templars, 1 tyraels and 2 CoAs in 3 runs, aside from crap.
(yeah, one templars per run, lol)

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 Post subject: Re: Soulmancer Boss
PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 6:59 pm 

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there was a real lack of testing on soulmancer. i did a bit but i don't think anyone else did, and i'm definitely not perfect. i don't know if further changes or buffs were added to him after i did my tests either. weren't you supposed to lower the pierce kevin after i did a few tests? i remember saying he hit too hard.


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 Post subject: Re: Soulmancer Boss
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 9:54 am 
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Actually it didn't take 40 minutes to score a kill in one sitting for Steel's asn... That was multiple rounds actually stringed togethor (Steel did specifically mention soulmancer healing on him sometimes)...

In any case that cold wave was supposed to be an attack to give even the trappers hell (since due to their super run speed and claw block they had advantages over other classes for surviving bosses). Also its not like it goes in all directions like a nova (although I could of certainly did that and ruin any chance at teamwork).

In any case you guys need to make up your minds. I thought the original intent was supposed to be a boss so ball busting hard that even an elite char would be hard pressed to guarantee win in one round...

In any case it seems claw block is giving asns too much of a survival advantage compared to the rest of the classes. How about equipping Soulmancer with an aura that destroys claw block's block and giving the cold wave a hefty damage nerf?


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 Post subject: Re: Soulmancer Boss
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 4:21 pm 

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Well, i kinda managed to survive really long without a unkillable char.
With the lightning trapper, i just ran around with such ridiculous high movespeed i dodged every cold wave. However, the persistent meteor fire and lightning orbs and purple fire eventually killed me, pots only last for so long.
If that's what steel did, man he has some amazing determination, its boring as hell.

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 Post subject: Re: Soulmancer Boss
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 10:44 am 
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A lightning trapper's BoS is seriously so strong that it allows a trapper to run around that half nova of cold wave? Guess I really should of tested that wave's dodgability against a sin with strong BoS. How large of a marging were you dodging with, Overkill?

As for the boring remark I guess that just depends on the D2 player... I guess a lot of D2 players are just simply more interested in straight up beating the snot out of a boss ala MXL spirit style than actually having to dodge back and forth as they fight the boss.

In any case if sins are actually run dodging the wave the skill's going to need an overhaul (since it's failing at the original intended purpose of catching even trappers). As the missile settings are now I optimized the speed for maximum damage for whoever got caught in the wave (since it moves exactly at the speed it knocks a player back at causing the skill to damage a player pretty much every frame till it slams them into a wall). It's going to have to be set at a higher speed to catch a trapper. A higher speed, however, is going to reduce the time a player gets exposed to the missiles thus reducing damage (also there will be the fact that the skill will no longer be able to carry a player clean to the wall since it will plow throw them faster than they can be knocked back).


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 Post subject: Re: Soulmancer Boss
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:33 am 

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From the sound of it, I think I'll avoid that boss unless he's nerfed a bit with that cold attack.

Was looking forward to fighting him eventually and the rewards are certainly appealing, but I that's just insane.

At the very least, the cold pierce could be removed. Then I might consider going head to head with him (and a party of course).

I suppose he could be handled if there was a full party with well-developed builds who have perfect equipment combinations. Even then I'm not so sure from the sound of things...


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 Post subject: Re: Soulmancer Boss
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:17 am 
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Actually the cold wave does horrendous raw damage (meaning even without the pierce it would totally obliterate any melee that tried going point blank). Although people like to pretend flat DR/MDR means anything against the wave it has no physical component so flat physical DR means nothing. The wave does 1k raw cold damage per hit before damage mitigation. Flat MDR is applied before everything else with exception to cyclone armor and mana shield (meaning you would need several hundred of a mod that's difficult if not impossible to even reach 200 in in order to even make a serious drop in the damage).


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 Post subject: Re: Soulmancer Boss
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 5:46 pm 
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Theres "near impossible" and just pointless zerg rushing.

Theres nothing appealing about an enemy that fires a screen wide attack that wipes everything out.
Why not just fast moving missiles (3 per shot maybe) that target seek, pierce and retarget. Something that keeps you moving but don't wipe out everything on the screen along with the intended target... That'll trip up assassins as many incoming hits one after another after another = stuck in clawblock more often.

8-12 missiles chasing a player down is more interesting than a screenwide wall of stupidity that you just step around and forget about while leaving the rest of the team behind you in direct line of fire regardles of your position.

It's supposed to be hard for a team, not simple for a sin and impossible for everyone else.

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 Post subject: Re: Soulmancer Boss
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 9:02 pm 
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Best way to develop a boss for these types of games is to choose a strategy to beat him then build the boss around that.


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 Post subject: Re: Soulmancer Boss
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:05 pm 
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a fire druid killed him too, without any sin around, how long it took and how often he died is another story.

Problem with his wave is you can be hit with more than 1 missile at once, making it impossible without dying (or getting rid of all your juvs in next 10sec) to get close to SM making any melee-mid range class ineffective vs him. Dmg should be lowered or hitdelay set properly.

Claw block doesn't help at all, it only works when you stand still and it can block only 1 missile per 2 frames(or whatever FBR is) when you're being hit maybe 20 missiles per 1 frame now.

theorycrafting isn't helping.


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 Post subject: Re: Soulmancer Boss
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:08 pm 
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what theorycraft is legit?
well i wont even be attempting him at his current state.

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 Post subject: Re: Soulmancer Boss
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:13 pm 

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dew wrote:
what theorycraft is legit?
well i wont even be attempting him at his current state.

I might try it just for fun :D, just to see how hard he hits me when i got round 30 absorb and almoast 340 ress :D

Also question for everyone, does mancer cast curses like lr amp etc??


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 Post subject: Re: Soulmancer Boss
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:29 pm 
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dew wrote:
what theorycraft is legit?
well i wont even be attempting him at his current state.

create a hex'd SP char and try to survive more than 3 waves in a row. it's better than saying sins can solo him because of claw block(which is invalid ofc), because this wave seems to be made only to prevent this making whole boss broken.

SM should be doable with a team, even if you think he can be brought down within 2min when fully geared... just make a cube rec for his key more time consuming/challenging.


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 Post subject: Re: Soulmancer Boss
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:37 pm 
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Soulmancer manually casts a lvl 36 moncurse which would randomly translate to a lvl 36 LR.

How is your fire/lightning resist, prescot? 295+ as well I hope? (since soulmancer has 100 pierce in 4+ elements) Anyways with cold protection like that I would actually be very interested in hearing how well you survive the cold wave and at what distances.

Also Purerage about the direct line of fire thing... it's for that reason I made the skill a half nova. So the tanks would be on one side of a boss while the DPSers farther away on the opposite side. Is positional tactics honestly too much to ask from the players? (I hope not) I was honestly thinking of the lines of the tanks head in early so they could rush to the opposite side of soulmancer and then once they settle down the DPSers can move in.

@Steel The original cube recipe idea for the soulmancer key was to cube together all the LOS hearts. This was rejected as too tedious and tough however. The only thing I could really think of to make the recipe more tedious without reverting to that would be to add the LOS portal key as well to the recipe.


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 Post subject: Re: Soulmancer Boss
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:41 pm 
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good point if you can beat him in a team then why not go through hell to get his key. Imo better than a boss that you can only look at for a split second till you are dead. I like the los portal key idea being added if he is changed to be doable

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 Post subject: Re: Soulmancer Boss
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:44 pm 
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Any LoS heart + Samhein gift then... getting to LoS Champion stage is already challenging and time consuming... Getting cursed/purified items isn't really hard thanks to Leo's drops and fixed locations of glyphs.

Samhein ofc is challenging for non psn chars and getting to him is 1h more(likely) or less(non likely).


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 Post subject: Re: Soulmancer Boss
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 1:09 pm 

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Baerk wrote:
Soulmancer manually casts a lvl 36 moncurse which would randomly translate to a lvl 36 LR.

How is your fire/lightning resist, prescot? 295+ as well I hope? (since soulmancer has 100 pierce in 4+ elements) Anyways with cold protection like that I would actually be very interested in hearing how well you survive the cold wave and at what distances.

Also Purerage about the direct line of fire thing... it's for that reason I made the skill a half nova. So the tanks would be on one side of a boss while the DPSers farther away on the opposite side. Is positional tactics honestly too much to ask from the players? (I hope not) I was honestly thinking of the lines of the tanks head in early so they could rush to the opposite side of soulmancer and then once they settle down the DPSers can move in.

@Steel The original cube recipe idea for the soulmancer key was to cube together all the LOS hearts. This was rejected as too tedious and tough however. The only thing I could really think of to make the recipe more tedious without reverting to that would be to add the LOS portal key as well to the recipe.


Not actualy other ress are round 270. Also if u could make for me a single player version of soulmancer non psn immune, i would be glad cos i want to double check some thing on it ;D
Also i dont think that on the realm i will survive long enough since i'm planing on going in with my frostbiter :D


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 Post subject: Re: Soulmancer Boss
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 1:18 pm 
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im kinda curious on how you guys beat him. the last time I played this was in early beta SP testing and I found two ways of tanking him, one with the ohm rune invincibility glitch (hope this is vague enough to not share the secret yet precise enough for some people to figure it out), the second by standing in "the corner" to avoid his horafrost attack. (not sure if this has been fixed since real relese).

I found a fire druid with 1 into raven was enough to kill him efficiently, however this might have changed since the armgeddon/valor fixes.


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 Post subject: Re: Soulmancer Boss
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:43 pm 

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Baerk wrote:
A lightning trapper's BoS is seriously so strong that it allows a trapper to run around that half nova of cold wave? Guess I really should of tested that wave's dodgability against a sin with strong BoS. How large of a marging were you dodging with, Overkill?

As for the boring remark I guess that just depends on the D2 player... I guess a lot of D2 players are just simply more interested in straight up beating the snot out of a boss ala MXL spirit style than actually having to dodge back and forth as they fight the boss.

In any case if sins are actually run dodging the wave the skill's going to need an overhaul (since it's failing at the original intended purpose of catching even trappers). As the missile settings are now I optimized the speed for maximum damage for whoever got caught in the wave (since it moves exactly at the speed it knocks a player back at causing the skill to damage a player pretty much every frame till it slams them into a wall). It's going to have to be set at a higher speed to catch a trapper. A higher speed, however, is going to reduce the time a player gets exposed to the missiles thus reducing damage (also there will be the fact that the skill will no longer be able to carry a player clean to the wall since it will plow throw them faster than they can be knocked back).


It is indeed possible to dodge, just not surefire. the margin isnt really big, i couldn't dodge 100% of the time, so i gave up out of not being able to pull it off long enough with zero mistakes, not solely by the boredom.
But i dont think it should be undodgeable by BoS'ed assassins, that makes it possible to do it wiht impecable precision.

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 Post subject: Re: Soulmancer Boss
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 11:31 am 
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Baerk wrote:
Also Purerage about the direct line of fire thing... it's for that reason I made the skill a half nova. So the tanks would be on one side of a boss while the DPSers farther away on the opposite side. Is positional tactics honestly too much to ask from the players? (I hope not) I was honestly thinking of the lines of the tanks head in early so they could rush to the opposite side of soulmancer and then once they settle down the DPSers can move in.


So the tank has to go to 1 side and never move? Great idea! Drawing fire is 1 thing, being required to stay in 1 position for the whole fight is terrible design.

Also, I'd love to see a tank go in and start tanking without the support builds there right away (no oak/auras/curses?). How does a druid tank do when he enters alone and has his oak instantly blow up in his face?

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 Post subject: Re: Soulmancer Boss
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:44 pm 

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i could say so much about this boss but i cant bring myself to type it.

my advice to all: don't bother doing him.


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 Post subject: Re: Soulmancer Boss
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:38 am 

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well im hardcore, i intend on doing him at the end of the ladder instead of dueling :) be fun lol already planning on my first time to Los (which is in hc again) and ill probly die lol oh well

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 Post subject: Re: Soulmancer Boss
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:42 am 

Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:46 pm
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ok so fighting this boss has officially made me hate hu.

i thought hu was supposed to be about team work but i realize its not there yet. SM was the worst thing ive ever seen on hu. i know why steel was saying do not waste your time.

Los... blah

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 Post subject: Re: Soulmancer Boss
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:56 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:45 am
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why is this guy so bad, just one shot kill everyone eh?


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 Post subject: Re: Soulmancer Boss
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:05 am 

Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:46 pm
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blinky99 wrote:
why is this guy so bad, just one shot kill everyone eh?


if u knew the only way to kill him you would agree.

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 Post subject: Re: Soulmancer Boss
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:23 am 

Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:45 am
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pm, guess its a light trap sin run around?


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 Post subject: Re: Soulmancer Boss
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:01 am 
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Yeah its sad really no strategy required. Only one way to do it effectively.

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 Post subject: Re: Soulmancer Boss
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:03 pm 
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just get your one char to lie down dead near him to prevent fast healing, you have 20 sec to hit him that way. No matter what char you bring you'll be one shot killed from that wicked wave.

Really challenging.


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 Post subject: Re: Soulmancer Boss
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:36 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:45 am
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any one have a video of this id like to see it him in action


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 Post subject: Re: Soulmancer Boss
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:27 pm 
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I personally wonder how many people actually run along the walls to prevent being knocked back much to reduce damage. Also since the boss has a massive amount of passive pierce the cold wave requires cold resists far beyond what would normally be needed to take min damage possible. (~295 in the resist tally box which isn't effected by difficulty penalty).


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 Post subject: Re: Soulmancer Boss
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:01 am 
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Soulmancer is a joke. The only way to beat him is to cheese him. The fighting area is much too small for any character with teleport to dodge his attacks. The fact his cold wave has no next hit delay makes melee impossible. My barb with 20k + life when tweaked was 1 hit killed when in melee range, that's with 20%+ absorb and MASSIVE stacked cold resist.

We all know this mod wasnt ment for HC, but the fact you have a boss thats impossible to be done on HC or even legitimately on SC makes him a fluke.

I understand the lvl 101 charm is a big boost to any character, but the fact that someone spends the time to lvl that far and has to cheese the finally boss because he cant be done legitimately is complete bullshit.

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 Post subject: Re: Soulmancer Boss
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 12:07 am 
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Just went in there for the first time. Seems silly to me. On HC would need one char to sacrifice himself, then like 6 people alternating hitting him once and save/exiting lol. I'm sure some people will find some tricks or bugs, but on sc the strategy is pretty lame so far. I think if the cold wave was toned down a notch it might actually be fun, but then again maybe the point of him is to not be. Just my 2 cents :)

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 Post subject: Re: Soulmancer Boss
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 3:50 pm 
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Yeah I'm gonna redo him, most boss battles are only hard b/c of dmg spikes and omgwtf how much hp does this guy have??! But one thig at a time for now

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