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Tank Barb
http://forum.arimyth.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4851		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Rush [ Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:55 am ]
Post subject:  Tank Barb
Hello! I'm thinking about making a Tanking based Barbarian, and am looking for some basic pointers.

Mostly what I'm looking for is what skills I want to max out, and what skills are one point wonders, or should be avoided altogether. The other main questions I have is if there is any preferred mastery, and if I should be using a 2 handed weapon or a Shield?
Author:  Baerk [ Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tank Barb
If you are seriously looking for a tank barb my immediate recommendations would be shield user, max BO, max increased stamina, max iron skin along with one attack skill and one mastery of a one handed weapon of your choice. Also be sure to atleast one point the rest of the non weapon mastery tab skills as well as the buff shouts (probably wouldn't hurt to 1 pt find item as well for farming purposes).
Author:  Rush [ Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tank Barb
I am more just looking for a tanking character, and had seen Barbs doing it the most. Is there another class that would be better suited to being able to just soak up damage?
Author:  LockDown [ Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tank Barb
Best tank barb (This will sound crazy but bear with me)
2x Heaven's Wills (In +3 Prayer Scepter)
CoA (Celestial Spheres)
Tyraels (Celestial Spheres)
Immortal Flesh
Soul Drainers
Maras
1x Bul-Kathos
1x Wisp (10% Magic Res)



Max Iron Skin Natural Res Inc Stamina Bo and Shout.

You'll have a level 41~ prayer or so running from 3 sources end game. You could also slap on some laying of the hands gloves to get some Holy Bolt running but not sure how much that would actually heal for.


Its a very rich Barb build but a really good tank.

Also one of the best tanks are Assassins in general because of Fade and Claw Block.
Author:  Baerk [ Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tank Barb
Paladins/assassins have better damage mitigation tools than barb but lack life buffs which hurts rejuv usage. A two handed shape shift druid could possibly go some fight potless with enough damage mitigation gear and leech gear.

Paladins and Druids got the best shots at leeching through damage with proper gear due to the LL skill they each get (blessed aim and feral rage respectively). Barbs on the other hand got a good mix of damage mitigating skills and life buffs to help them stretch rejuvs. Assassins could probably use reds extremely well due to having very high damage mitigation potencial.
Author:  Steel [ Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tank Barb
I'd switch CoA to griff and tyr to enigma to save str for vita, less pdr/%pdr that way but almost 150 less str.
Author:  LockDown [ Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tank Barb
Steel wrote:
I'd switch CoA to griff and tyr to enigma to save str for vita, less pdr/%pdr that way but almost 150 less str.



That would work probably even better.
Author:  muleofal [ Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tank Barb
I don't believe the prayer from scepters adds to a barbs oskill prayer from immortal flesh does it?
Author:  PureRage-DoD [ Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tank Barb
Yes they do, mainly due to the bad way blizz coded the oskill an singleskill (xxx char only) stats.

Any oskill gets the effects of + to the same skill (xxx class only) (like arach adding extra levels to oskill venom)
Author:  muleofal [ Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tank Barb
PureRage-DoD wrote:
Yes they do, mainly due to the bad way blizz coded the oskill an singleskill (xxx char only) stats.

Any oskill gets the effects of + to the same skill (xxx class only) (like arach adding extra levels to oskill venom)


Well you can always learn something every day i guess.

In all honesty though this is stupid that it works as such. But whatever, blizz has done worse things with its coding mistakes.
Author:  drrod [ Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tank Barb
LockDown wrote:
Best tank barb (This will sound crazy but bear with me)
2x Heaven's Wills (In +3 Prayer Scepter)
CoA (Celestial Spheres)
Tyraels (Celestial Spheres)
Immortal Flesh
Soul Drainers
Maras
1x Bul-Kathos
1x Wisp (10% Magic Res)



Max Iron Skin Natural Res Inc Stamina Bo and Shout.

You'll have a level 41~ prayer or so running from 3 sources end game. You could also slap on some laying of the hands gloves to get some Holy Bolt running but not sure how much that would actually heal for.


Its a very rich Barb build but a really good tank.

Also one of the best tanks are Assassins in general because of Fade and Claw Block.

So you're telling me a barb with no block, no extra flat +life or life% mods, and 28% DR is the best tank barb? All that defense and prayer isn't going to mean shit when the high DPS bosses(think ancients, sam, achmel, LoS antiheroes) come a knocking. To effectively tank the hardest endgame bosses you're going to want to stack life, DR%, block, and absorbs(if needed). The only thing I really see that setup has going for it is the high defense, but you're going to need more than just that when you start running into the 5-15k hits some of those bosses are capable of.

As far as tanking the hardest hitting stuff in the game goes; if you have a source of oak&bo, best pure tanks IMO:
1.amazons(evade+dodge+block is amazing)
2.assassins(clawblock&fade, nuff said) and paladins(holyshield, smite's 20% DR, potential 20% abs from salvation)
3.barbs
4.druids
-ES sorc probably deserves a special mention, but I have little experience with them.

Standalone would probably be the barb, maybe a druid.

edit:forgot a huge thing for sins: ez curse immunity.
Author:  PureRage-DoD [ Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tank Barb
If you want to tank anything with meaningfull damage, you need to be blocking. Anyone can tank spells and shit. I'd love to see that barb tanking los bosses.

As an example, a pally with 75% block and 50%DR at 10k life is as effective as that barb with 80k hp (75% block and twice as much damage resist not to mention the extra def from a shield). PDR/MDR is only very good in norm and NM. In hell, its only really effective against trash mobs and 2-3 select attacks (flamewave, volcano etc). against flamewave, its the PDR that takes most of the pain out of it. Phys damage per frame is nasty and that skill has a physical component. The fire side of it is made pretty weak by sorbs and res. 50% dr% takes a lot of the sting out of it.

@ ben, you missing an entry in that list for decoy ;)
Author:  Steel [ Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tank Barb
@Drrod
It worked ok last ladder(Loc's Tang barb) vs everything, he decoyed los nec for the first time, he was healing 900hp and with 40+ juvs, 30k hp he was able to leap out agony/suffering np making baal runs easy as pie.
Author:  drrod [ Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tank Barb
What does kiting the necro and leaping back tentacles have to do with tanking? I'm not arguing his barb couldn't tank some stuff, but he clearly stated "the best tank barb", and that's far from the truth. Take the LoS druid or even Hell ancients for example, the barb that has the max block, max DR%, high abs, and stacked life is obviously going to tank better than the prayer barb. The prayer serves almost zero purpose in these fights where massive burst damage is involved. The point is a barb geared for tanking will be able to tank better than a barb with a 900 prayer pulse. The prayer barb will be more useful vs trash and easier bosses of course, and that puts it more on the side of support rather than pure tanking.
Author:  Lee [ Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tank Barb
Just because a 30k hp bulb can juv in front of the nec doesn't make it the best tank IIRC.
Author:  Verb [ Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tank Barb
I'd just switch out one of the heavens will for a spirit ward shield. yes you'd lose some healing but you'd gain lots of absorb, block and whatever you put in to the sockets probably either more absorb or dr%. Also fade is probably nice with the curse duration reduction.
Author:  kwikster [ Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tank Barb
Baerk wrote:
A two handed shape shift druid could possibly go some fight potless with enough damage mitigation gear and leech gear.
This maybe true in norm/nm. By the end of nm if your att rate ain't 5fpa (5 att per sec) or faster with 50%+ LL it won't leech enough to cover your pot needs. Also of note, I'm amazed at how few shapers actually max HoW and go oak instead. I get asked all the time why I maxed it LOLOLOLOLOLOL.

Baerk wrote:
Paladins and Druids got the best shots at leeching through damage with proper gear due to the LL skill they each get (blessed aim and feral rage respectively).
The only druids benefiting from feral are those who max it. Since it is now based on hard points to achieve leech. BA is soft point based true, however, ANY active source of BA negates the passive bonus. This includes the bonus from Iratha set and crafts with BA.
Author:  LockDown [ Wed Oct 19, 2011 12:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tank Barb
Lee wrote:
Just because a 30k hp bulb can juv in front of the nec doesn't make it the best tank IIRC.


The best tank is an inferno sorc.
Author:  Lee [ Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tank Barb
So I've heard the invincible bug lol
Author:  LockDown [ Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tank Barb
Lee wrote:
So I've heard the invincible bug lol


Just saying the build works, you want the most effective non bug tank for LoS? Bone Cage Necro.
Author:  Baerk [ Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tank Barb
Since when could a sorc get their hands on oskill/charges of leap? Isn't a combo of leap and inferno necessary to trigger the invincibility bug?
Author:  PureRage-DoD [ Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tank Barb
It's not just leap that causes it and it's not just doable with inferno/arctic blast either. If you really want to get rid of it, you'd have to remove a lot of oskills, and ruin many items/oskill builds in the process.
Author:  Lee [ Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tank Barb
Doubt many people actually use it. Would be funny to see someone do it though and kill all the LoS heroes lolol.

Far as BoneCage nec... how does that rape LoS?? I'm confused?
Author:  LockDown [ Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tank Barb
You ever maxed Cage Wall and Armor? With Oak those prison's are lovely.
Author:  Abominae [ Wed Oct 19, 2011 12:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tank Barb
LockDown wrote:
You ever maxed Cage Wall and Armor? With Oak those prison's are lovely.


99% sure Bone Wall and Bone Prison do not benefit from Oak Sage. They certainly do not benefit from Spirit of Barbs, so there is no reason for them to receive benefits from any other aura state.

This is pretty easy to test, just give a Necromancer a high level of Oskill Spirit of Barbs (level 98 yields 6000% thorns) and test against a Hell Fallen. Bone Wall & Bone Prison both have a natural thorns component, so you will see the thorns animation when they are struck. The difference being, a Fallen will kill himself in 1-2 swings against your Necromancer. A successful swing against a Bone Wall/Prison will yield a small sliver of damage whether Spirit of Barbs is active or not.

Have you actually tanked LoS Necro with Bone Wall/Prison? At high levels, they have ~15k life which, unmitigated, a Spear + Teeth will drop immediately. Druid would destroy it even quicker, given he causes more havoc than the necromancer when not fully KB locked. Or are you talking about tanking the softer hitting LoS bosses like Barbarian?
Author:  LockDown [ Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tank Barb
I've witnessed it hold LoS Necro while a Blizz Sorc pounded him. Not a theory. Also thought they got BO bonus so assumed they'd get Oak as well I may be wrong.
Author:  Baerk [ Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tank Barb
Bone prison specifically has a flag set that makes it immune to ALL auras (so oak definitely can not boost prison's tanking). BO I'm not so sure.
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