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 Post subject: Venom/Blade Sin suggestion
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 12:26 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:21 pm
Posts: 81
Hi,

I did some reading on the forum before i posted this.
I'm making a new Sin soon, so your suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
So based on what I read, I think i'm gonna make my sin with the following skills:

1 death sentry (total of 7)
20 fade
20 venom (total of 21 with burst of speed preq)
20 claw mastery
20 Shadow master (total of 24 with preq)
1 each in blade skills (total of 3)
1 tiger strike
1 dragon tail (total of 3 with preq)

Total so far is 99 pts.

Here is my plan for end game main equipments:
Body: Tyrael or templar
Head: Crafted defiance or COA or gryff
Weapons: Dual lvl 95 or with 1 HHG or claw RW(with whirlwind o skill)
Glove: ?
belt: crafted poison belt or arach
boots: +1skill crafted boot or????
rings: dual crafted poison or the posion uniq ring
neck: zakarum or crafted

I'm planning to make my sin main damage from venom (obviously), and the shadow master should be able to semi tank bosses while my sin safely throwing blade, or just whirlwind the boss.
For poison immune, I have tiger strike and dragon tail 1 pointed.
For trash, I got DS.

Here are my questions for now. I know that they're rather long, but hopefully you guys can help.

1. My main damage will be from venom. So I should put in as much emeralds into weapon sockets and poison facets into the other equipments right?
If that's the case, then I wouldn't need a separate equipment before I apply venom right?

2. Is whirlwind any good for my build? Or should I just blade shield, throwing blades and planting DS traps?

3. What other skills should I put the rest of my skill pts to? DS trap, Cloak of shadow or claw mastery maybe? Or if you have other suggestions on my build, please do let me know.

4. How is my end game equipment? do you have any suggestions? This is my first poison build, so I'm not familiar with poison equipment.

5. Which one is better suited for this build, dual claw or 1 claw 1 shield?

That's all the questions that I have right now. I'm sure there will be more once I got feedback from you guys.

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Venom/Blade Sin suggestion
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 1:41 pm 
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Blade sentinel is pretty good at clearing trash with cloak active and it breaks poison immunities.only works on trash tho not bosses

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 Post subject: Re: Venom/Blade Sin suggestion
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 1:56 pm 
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Posts: 447
Location: Reno, NV
rajawal1 wrote:
1. My main damage will be from venom. So I should put in as much emeralds into weapon sockets and poison facets into the other equipments right?
If that's the case, then I wouldn't need a separate equipment before I apply venom right?


No, you'd want some prebuff gear. Venom kind of sucks, and you really need prebuff equipment to boost its damage enough to be good. It also lasts 20+ minutes at higher levels, so its something you only have to do once per joining a game.
If you're too lazy for a full set of prebuff equipment, I highly suggest at least using 2x Pestilence RW in +3 Venom Claws for a total of +14 Venom.

rajawal1 wrote:
2. Is whirlwind any good for my build? Or should I just blade shield, throwing blades and planting DS traps?


WW Venom Sin has been done before and I'm told its very fun. It's up to you whether or not you want to use it. Sins are naturally tanky though, so you won't have too much problems WW'ing some faces off.

rajawal1 wrote:
3. What other skills should I put the rest of my skill pts to? DS trap, Cloak of shadow or claw mastery maybe? Or if you have other suggestions on my build, please do let me know.


With Fade/CM/Venom/SM, you're pretty solid. Don't forget to get a point in Dragon Flight, as its amazing for any Sin to get into melee range. As for a point dump, maxed Death Sentry is always nice and something I try to have on just about every sin I can.

rajawal1 wrote:
4. How is my end game equipment? do you have any suggestions? This is my first poison build, so I'm not familiar with poison equipment.


As far as gear goes, there's something important to note. Venom double dips into poison skill damage. It's affected once by the current % poison skill damage you are wearing at the time of casting & again by the current % poison damage you have while attacking. Think how Enchant and Fire Mastery function on a sorceress.
This means that shit like Griffon's and facets add a ton of damage to the build and are pretty vital to making it preform well. If you go Dual Claw, with max Fade you can pretty much get away very little other survivability gear on an Assassin as long as you didn't pump tons into Str/Dex.

rajawal1 wrote:
5. Which one is better suited for this build, dual claw or 1 claw 1 shield?


Dual Claw for any assassin, ever. Weapon Block is ridiculously good, especially if you want to go Whirlwind for this build. If you want Whirlwind, you definitely want dual claw as using Chaos alone is kind of shitty.

Another thing I'd suggest doing is downloading Purerage's left click edits. You can put Cloak of Shadows on left click and Shadow Warrior will cast it quite frequently (faster than you possibly could) and between SW & your own CoS timer, you can pretty much roll through the game with Cloak of Shadows up 90% of the time.

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 Post subject: Re: Venom/Blade Sin suggestion
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 9:56 am 

Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:21 pm
Posts: 81
Abominae wrote:

No, you'd want some prebuff gear. Venom kind of sucks, and you really need prebuff equipment to boost its damage enough to be good. It also lasts 20+ minutes at higher levels, so its something you only have to do once per joining a game.
If you're too lazy for a full set of prebuff equipment, I highly suggest at least using 2x Pestilence RW in +3 Venom Claws for a total of +14 Venom.

So just to clarify, For prebuff equipments, I need +poison damage and +venom skill as much as possible right (-enemy poison is not needed)


Abominae wrote:
WW Venom Sin has been done before and I'm told its very fun. It's up to you whether or not you want to use it. Sins are naturally tanky though, so you won't have too much problems WW'ing some faces off.


I guess for whirwind, i could try it once I can meet up the requirement to use that whirwind RW. Right now, I don't really see the advantage of whirlwind over blade sentinel or blade fury because most damage will be from venom right?


Abominae wrote:
With Fade/CM/Venom/SM, you're pretty solid. Don't forget to get a point in Dragon Flight, as its amazing for any Sin to get into melee range. As for a point dump, maxed Death Sentry is always nice and something I try to have on just about every sin I can.


Yeah I thought about that too. My current phoenix/fire sin got 1 point into DS, and she can clear trash pretty good. So i'm a bit hesitant on putting in more than 1 pt in DS.
CoS is also kinda not worth it to put more than 1 pt, since it doesn't work on bosses.
Mind Blast, the stun effect doesn't work on bosses too right?
What about putting the rest (around 10 pts) into shadow warrior for additional tank. Do you think it might survive more than 30 secs on bosses?




Abominae wrote:
As far as gear goes, there's something important to note. Venom double dips into poison skill damage. It's affected once by the current % poison skill damage you are wearing at the time of casting & again by the current % poison damage you have while attacking. Think how Enchant and Fire Mastery function on a sorceress.
This means that shit like Griffon's and facets add a ton of damage to the build and are pretty vital to making it preform well. If you go Dual Claw, with max Fade you can pretty much get away very little other survivability gear on an Assassin as long as you didn't pump tons into Str/Dex.


Allrighty. So related to the first question above, for prebuff, use +venom and +%poison damage as much as possible.
Then for actual fighting gear, use +%poison damage and -%enemy poison resistance.

Abominae wrote:
Dual Claw for any assassin, ever. Weapon Block is ridiculously good, especially if you want to go Whirlwind for this build. If you want Whirlwind, you definitely want dual claw as using Chaos alone is kind of shitty.

Another thing I'd suggest doing is downloading Purerage's left click edits. You can put Cloak of Shadows on left click and Shadow Warrior will cast it quite frequently (faster than you possibly could) and between SW & your own CoS timer, you can pretty much roll through the game with Cloak of Shadows up 90% of the time.


That's a great idea. Thanks for letting me know this trick.
This is another reason I'm thinking dumping more pts into shadow warrior.

Should I be putting in more than 1 pt in weapon block if I decide to go with whirlwind? at lvl 99, I'm thinking that I could get around +25-30 from items and charms (or maybe more, i haven't really check yet).

Thanks a lot Abominae for your quick and very informative respond.


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 Post subject: Re: Venom/Blade Sin suggestion
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 1:55 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 2:55 pm
Posts: 447
Location: Reno, NV
rajawal1 wrote:
So just to clarify, For prebuff equipments, I need +poison damage and +venom skill as much as possible right (-enemy poison is not needed)


Correct. To be honest, Venom prebuff gear got a little more confusing this patch, otherwise I'd give you a set-up. Since poison boots are now replaced with poison belt (which Arachnid's already gives +6 Venom), it's a bit more funky to prebuff them. Pretty sure casting Venom with Arachnid's then switching to a gg poison belt will produce more damage, but that's something you should find out for sure yourself.
If you do obtain some pimp gear (Facet'd Temps/Griffs) you can probably get to the point where just your caster gear + pestilence is as good as it gets.


rajawal1 wrote:
I guess for whirwind, i could try it once I can meet up the requirement to use that whirwind RW. Right now, I don't really see the advantage of whirlwind over blade sentinel or blade fury because most damage will be from venom right?


It's mainly because people find WW a lot of fun and BF slightly boring. Something about standing in one place gets annoying to people. WW/BF are pretty much just ways to apply Venom if you're going for a pure Venom build, so it boils down to personal preference.


rajawal1 wrote:
Yeah I thought about that too. My current phoenix/fire sin got 1 point into DS, and she can clear trash pretty good. So i'm a bit hesitant on putting in more than 1 pt in DS.
CoS is also kinda not worth it to put more than 1 pt, since it doesn't work on bosses.
Mind Blast, the stun effect doesn't work on bosses too right?
What about putting the rest (around 10 pts) into shadow warrior for additional tank. Do you think it might survive more than 30 secs on bosses?


My Assassin with max Death Sentry has ~20 yard DSentry, which is pretty close to a full screen. I find it worth it, as it clears fast as hell (don't even need other skills, just a merc to kill a few mobs) but each to their own.
MB's Stun effect only works versus bosses who can be KB'd. Unfortunately, MB's damage is low as shit and assassin cast fairly slow so it's not very useful unless you have 174% FCR.

Dumping points into Shadow Warrior is okay. Mine is maxed and it survives pretty much all trash, but it will die to sub-bosses. My maxed Shadow Master on the other hand tanks sub-bosses no problem, without needing to recast very often. As far as tanking act bosses goes, I've had little success with either. They're delay timer is too low to spam enough for act bosses.

rajawal1 wrote:
Allrighty. So related to the first question above, for prebuff, use +venom and +%poison damage as much as possible.
Then for actual fighting gear, use +%poison damage and -%enemy poison resistance.


That's pretty much the idea.

rajawal1 wrote:
That's a great idea. Thanks for letting me know this trick.
This is another reason I'm thinking dumping more pts into shadow warrior.

Should I be putting in more than 1 pt in weapon block if I decide to go with whirlwind? at lvl 99, I'm thinking that I could get around +25-30 from items and charms (or maybe more, i haven't really check yet).

Thanks a lot Abominae for your quick and very informative respond.


Yeah, dumping points into Shadow Warrior isn't a bad idea of you really love some CoS. It dies fairly easily 1 pointed without a life buff. If you ever have major trouble with Shadow Warrior surviving, put Fade on your right click and allow SW to attack some mobs. Eventually it'll cast Fade and it makes a world of difference.

Some people advocate putting a couple more into Weapon Block, but 1 point is all you really need. Both of my current Assassins hit 70% and 71% chance to block with just one point in the skill. Mid-game, you break 50% chance to block fairly easy with some +skills, so I just leave it be.

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 Post subject: Re: Venom/Blade Sin suggestion
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 11:26 am 

Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:21 pm
Posts: 81
Abominae

Thanks a lot for your responses.
Following your advice, I built this char with udietoo on single player.
The gear is pretty much the same as end game gear.
What I'm getting is around 25-30 k damage from venom. I tried whirlwind, and you're right. It's definitely more fun than just standing and throwing blades around.
Sometimes, whirlwind animation just won't stop, so my sin can't die, but also can't move. The only way to get out of this is to quit the game.
To be honest, I'm not impressed with the damage output and gameplay/control of this char.

Is 25K venom damage is typically what you'll find from a venom sin? (on the display for lowest level blade skill).
Will poison charms (eg 225 poison damage for 6 secs) help in increasing the venom damage during prebuff?
Do you think that this build will do well against bosses? (with 25-30 k venom damage)


Thanks


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