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 Post subject: Vindicator Pally
PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:10 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:06 pm
Posts: 110
Hey guys.

Well, i came back to HU some days ago, and decided to try a Vengeance Pally.
My idea was maxing HFire, Hshock, HFreeze, Vengeance and Conv. Which is doable by 90s.
He would use vengeance as offensive skill, Conviction aura, and wear Doom, Dragon and Dream for the on equip auras, cause a somewhat ridiculous vengeance damage.
Has anyone done that yet? Is it viable?
I can tell its fun, hes 64 and chilling on A3 NM. I can say hes brutally OP at early levels, having soloed a2 normal at 30 or so and Andy at level 22.

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 Post subject: Re: Vindicator Pally
PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 2:02 pm 
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i dont think vengence works well with the holy aruas, i think i did better by maxing 1 aura with its synergies and using zeal.


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 Post subject: Re: Vindicator Pally
PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 2:09 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:06 pm
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But that exists, i wanted to use vengeance.
All the holy auras are synergies to vengeance, and Conv is the best one to use. the Dream Dragon Doom combo makes up for nice and shiny effects both on his feet and on his enemies face. I know its not optimal, tho. Im enjoying it so far.

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 Post subject: Re: Vindicator Pally
PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 2:41 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:47 am
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Location: Stockholm, Sweden
I hope that shit works out for you, very interesting way you building your pala I must say.
I dont understand why ppl think its better to go zeal then vengence in these builds, I mean if you're zeal then you'll hit too fast to be able to do damage to any boss because of the amount of counters you will cause.

Thats it, making one of these myself, got a holy shockadin at lvl 58 with vengence but your build seems a lot more interesting.
Please write here when you got dream/dragon/doom going on your char, want to know how it works. I hope its awesome.

Doesnt the equip auras get damage boosts from the actuall talents aswell?

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 Post subject: Re: Vindicator Pally
PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 2:45 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:06 pm
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Verb wrote:
I hope that shit works out for you, very interesting way you building your pala I must say.
I dont understand why ppl think its better to go zeal then vengence in these builds, I mean if you're zeal then you'll hit too fast to be able to do damage to any boss because of the amount of counters you will cause.

Thats it, making one of these myself, got a holy shockadin at lvl 58 with vengence but your build seems a lot more interesting.
Please write here when you got dream/dragon/doom going on your char, want to know how it works. I hope its awesome.

Doesnt the equip auras get damage boosts from the actuall talents aswell?


THats the whole point of it! Lets say i have 20 hardpoints in holy fire and +10 extra points tru +skills. Equipping dragon (12 when equipped) ill always have a level 42 Holy Fire aura up, not only melting enemies (wiht its outstanding probable 500 damge at level 42) but also adding a crapton of fire damage (Sinergies from Conv and vengeance itself will add on the on equip aura as well) to my vengeance.
Also, he needs quite a lot of physical damage, since vengeance modifies your physical damage.

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 Post subject: Re: Vindicator Pally
PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 3:42 pm 
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Overkill wrote:
But that exists, i wanted to use vengeance.
All the holy auras are synergies to vengeance, and Conv is the best one to use. the Dream Dragon Doom combo makes up for nice and shiny effects both on his feet and on his enemies face. I know its not optimal, tho. Im enjoying it so far.


the problem is is that the damage added from those, does not get amplified with vengeance.


say u do 50k damage fire damage from holy fire, if u use vengence say wiht a 10000% enhanced fire damage, u would do 50k fire damage.

as far as zeal, i would say 95% of the game is vs trash, so whats wrong with zeal? on bosses ur gonna use charge anyways to get the fuck away from them anyways...

i would think a 6 soc PB with 6 uber gems of the same type would yield the most vengence damage.


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 Post subject: Re: Vindicator Pally
PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 3:49 pm 
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THats the whole point of it! Lets say i have 20 hardpoints in holy fire and +10 extra points tru +skills. Equipping dragon (12 when equipped) ill always have a level 42 Holy Fire aura up, not only melting enemies (wiht its outstanding probable 500 damge at level 42) but also adding a crapton of fire damage (Sinergies from Conv and vengeance itself will add on the on equip aura as well) to my vengeance.
Also, he needs quite a lot of physical damage, since vengeance modifies your physical damage.[/quote]


with a lvl 12 holy fire on equipt, u get a lvl 12 holy fire on equipt


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 Post subject: Re: Vindicator Pally
PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 4:51 pm 

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PmP wrote:
THats the whole point of it! Lets say i have 20 hardpoints in holy fire and +10 extra points tru +skills. Equipping dragon (12 when equipped) ill always have a level 42 Holy Fire aura up, not only melting enemies (wiht its outstanding probable 500 damge at level 42) but also adding a crapton of fire damage (Sinergies from Conv and vengeance itself will add on the on equip aura as well) to my vengeance.
Also, he needs quite a lot of physical damage, since vengeance modifies your physical damage.



with a lvl 12 holy fire on equipt, u get a lvl 12 holy fire on equipt[/quote]

It adds to your points in Holy Fire, at least it did on Bnet.

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 Post subject: Re: Vindicator Pally
PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:47 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:47 am
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Location: Stockholm, Sweden
well this isnt bnet....not sure but PmP might be right

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 Post subject: Re: Vindicator Pally
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:17 am 
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Using an aura on equip will never add the level of the on equip aura to your actual skill level. It's never worked like that. It will run the aura on equip level (or if you run your own aura too, the higher level one will win)

veng damage comes from a high damage weapon, the 3 holy auras won't add much to your damage without pumping the 20% synergys for those auras. With all 3 and each 20% snergy maxed you should get some ok combined damage from the auras on equip, but not crazy high numbers by any means.

80% of skills damage comes from tier 4 and 5 damages.
Ie. 1 point going from level 51 to 52 will add about as much damage as 10 points going from 1 to 10. Stacking many low level auras won't put out as much damage as you may think.

as far as trashing goes, just use your own holy fire aura and use a kuko bow with a ruby in it + razortail belt. 100% piercing arrows and high fire damage clears extremely fast.

If you are running a maxed convic, just get an act 3 merc and you wont have to attack vs trash at all really.

To get the most outa those auras on equip, I would build a melee sorc with all 3 masterys maxed + the rest in enchant and frozen armor (for def and AR%) then zeal with that. It still woudn't be spectacular though.

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 Post subject: Re: Vindicator Pally
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:27 am 

Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:06 pm
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PureRage-DoD wrote:
Using an aura on equip will never add the level of the on equip aura to your actual skill level. It's never worked like that. It will run the aura on equip level (or if you run your own aura too, the higher level one will win)

veng damage comes from a high damage weapon, the 3 holy auras won't add much to your damage without pumping the 20% synergys for those auras. With all 3 and each 20% snergy maxed you should get some ok combined damage from the auras on equip, but not crazy high numbers by any means.

80% of skills damage comes from tier 4 and 5 damages.
Ie. 1 point going from level 51 to 52 will add about as much damage as 10 points going from 1 to 10. Stacking many low level auras won't put out as much damage as you may think.

as far as trashing goes, just use your own holy fire aura and use a kuko bow with a ruby in it + razortail belt. 100% piercing arrows and high fire damage clears extremely fast.

If you are running a maxed convic, just get an act 3 merc and you wont have to attack vs trash at all really.

To get the most outa those auras on equip, I would build a melee sorc with all 3 masterys maxed + the rest in enchant and frozen armor (for def and AR%) then zeal with that. It still woudn't be spectacular though.


Still, while not optimal, flashy effects on the pally feet and enemy faces are all im after. :)

Edit: I'm also pretty sure i heard that pally auras did increase the on-equip auras (hard points at least) there was a build on bnet based on it, if it never did, i should've researched a bit :P

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 Post subject: Re: Vindicator Pally
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:58 am 

Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:47 am
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I still think vengence will be pretty good this way. You'll get something like 6-700%, or more elemental damage from vengence, and with the maxed conviction you'll probably do a crap load of damage.

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 Post subject: Re: Vindicator Pally
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:14 am 
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The build on B.net used aura stacking (which was a bug) the other one was using Dream in shields and a helm giving you a level 30 Holy Shock. and Dragon/HoJ for a Level 30 Holy fire because the aura levels would combine on B.net.

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 Post subject: Re: Vindicator Pally
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:18 am 

Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:06 pm
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LockDown wrote:
The build on B.net used aura stacking (which was a bug) the other one was using Dream in shields and a helm giving you a level 30 Holy Shock. and Dragon/HoJ for a Level 30 Holy fire because the aura levels would combine on B.net.


ah, thanks lockdown ^^, i wasnt dreaming then.
Also, on a completely unrelated note, what chest is tatiana using? i crafted a +2 +12 psn and im not using it D:

Edit: if you say archon ill feel bad, i did a2 at the same time as you.

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 Post subject: Re: Vindicator Pally
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:21 am 

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Verb wrote:
I still think vengence will be pretty good this way. You'll get something like 6-700%, or more elemental damage from vengence, and with the maxed conviction you'll probably do a crap load of damage.


So i give up with the dragon/dream/doom combo, ill suck it up and pack him with physical damage to be multiplied by the vengeance modifiers, rock the highest conv possible and hope for the best.

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 Post subject: Re: Vindicator Pally
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:58 am 
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Verb wrote:
I still think vengence will be pretty good this way. You'll get something like 6-700%, or more elemental damage from vengence, and with the maxed conviction you'll probably do a crap load of damage.


same damage as zeal, im telling you


really, 1/5 the damage of zeal if all 5 hit.


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 Post subject: Re: Vindicator Pally
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:11 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:47 am
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Location: Stockholm, Sweden
PmP wrote:
Verb wrote:
I still think vengence will be pretty good this way. You'll get something like 6-700%, or more elemental damage from vengence, and with the maxed conviction you'll probably do a crap load of damage.


same damage as zeal, im telling you


really, 1/5 the damage of zeal if all 5 hit.


okey but this way you'll be able to hit the boss without causing a million counters(I'm exaggerating)...

Also even if 95% of the game is trash, the most fun part at least for me is usually the bosses. So standing around doing nothing isnt really that fun(wich is ironic since most my chars are barbs), but when you have a clear choice between not doing lots of counters and only doing a moderate amount of counters then the choice should be clear(by that I mean if you choose zeal you cant hit the boss and with vengence you can). Unless you dont really care about the bosses ofc, or have a team that can kill them for you or something.

I understand if you wana go zeal instead of vengence though...

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Last edited by Verb on Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Vindicator Pally
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:15 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:06 pm
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Ill make a single player pally with the udietoo editor set up for HU like purerage taught me to and post results, today, in a few hours after im done with work.

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 Post subject: Re: Vindicator Pally
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:00 pm 
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Verb wrote:
okey but this way you'll be able to hit the boss without causing a million counters(I'm exaggerating)...

Also even if 95% of the game is trash, the most fun part at least for me is usually the bosses. So standing around doing nothing isnt really that fun(wich is ironic since most my chars are barbs), but when you have a clear choice between not doing lots of counters and only doing a moderate amount of counters then the choice should be clear(by that I mean if you choose zeal you cant hit the boss and with vengence you can). Unless you dont really care about the bosses ofc, or have a team that can kill them for you or something.

I understand if you wana go zeal instead of vengence though...


I don't get where you're coming from. Have you ever sat in a bosses face with a melee character?
The large majority of counters in this game tickle at best. The only one outside of end-game content that can give you real trouble is blizzard counter stacking. I've had no problem with counters meleeing any boss in the main game. This was with a melee skill that causes more hits per second than Zeal (2.5 FPA versus 4 FPA).

The only time counters are a real issue is when you're using a skill that generates an extremely high number of hits per second like CB. Otherwise, there's no boss that you could Vengeance safely by not Zeal safely.


That being said, I support Vengeance, because no one ever makes them haha

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 Post subject: Re: Vindicator Pally
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:05 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:06 pm
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Abominae wrote:
That being said, I support Vengeance, because no one ever makes them haha


Thanks man! vengeance's new graphic is awesome. Its quite fun to play too!!! will be back to work in about ahour, im at home getting HU and UdieToo on a flashdrive to test it there.

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 Post subject: Re: Vindicator Pally
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:08 pm 
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Indeed, the only thing with counters a melee should be wary of is baal's icon. (super high ctc blizz and posibility to stack 8-10 in a single patch). Thats how my melee zon died. Besides that, I was able to comfortably jab all other countering enemys and leech through any counter or negate them completely with a little MDR

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 Post subject: Re: Vindicator Pally
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:32 pm 
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PureRage-DoD wrote:
Indeed, the only thing with counters a melee should be wary of is baal's icon. (super high ctc blizz and posibility to stack 8-10 in a single patch). Thats how my melee zon died. Besides that, I was able to comfortably jab all other countering enemys and leech through any counter or negate them completely with a little MDR


Just a question (always wondered about that): What does the Statue of Torn Faces do then? All I remeber that it instakilled almost any character that came in (melee) reach of it. Last ladder I accidentally teleported it away once - with Mithia's crown - right on top of an amazon who was sneaking in the corner, and she died in that very moment. The same happened with a tank barb who was brave enough to poke it.

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 Post subject: Re: Vindicator Pally
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:00 pm 
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I have never seen anyone hiting icon with melee wpn, really. For fun cb traps but that's all.
Only counters that matters are stunning one (andy's javelin, mephistos orb, etc) and iron maiden. If only HC pros didn't confuse cb with phys dmg then we would have some nice zealers standing toe to toe with naked spider-like bitches or mean leaping bugs <installing solo edition>


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