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 Post subject: Need Assassin equipment advice and othe questions
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 12:33 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:21 pm
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Hi,

So far I got 2 chars.
One is Lightning zon (just plain suck against bosses even with good equipments such as templar, griff, HHG, sammy, anni, 2bosses charms, etc and 5/5 or better lightning facets). But it's extremely great for trashes.

The other one is a phoenix meteor/fire Dual Claw assassin. this one looks somewhat promising against bosses if playing together with my friend's necro.

I do have a few questions regarding on what skill to spent since i got around 5-8 skills unspent atm.
my build is max fire, max lightning, max phoenix, some in D Claw, 1 trap each to lightning sentry, and pretty much at least 1 point in shadow skill (except for bladefury etc).

my equipment is templar, griff, dual shadow killer, and other items that are undecided.

I hope you guys can answer few of my questions down here to help me decide on what to put inside the sockets and what other equipment to wear.

1. I know that fade got hidden bonus, that is damage percentage reduction including soft point. However, I read somewhere in HU forum that the max damage reduction is set at 50%. Let's say that with equipment, my fade is level 40 (hence 40% damage reduction). If i wear tyrael's might + steelrend + worldstone granite (additional around 27%), will the damage reduction become 67%? or will it stay at 50%?

2. I noticed that when I use equipment with + fire skill, my phoenix strike skill didn't get the +skill bonus. I'm wondering whether the +fire damage from facets add damage to the fire&DPS from meteor phoenix strike or not? same question for the pierce also. I have no way to test this. I hope someone who understand the mechanic can explain this.

3. Me and my necro friend are planning to farm bosses shards in the future. My role is obviously to tank and do some damage if possible. Which one is better to put into my helmet and body socket...is it rubies or diamonds (somewhat related to question 1 because if I got 50% DR, is it worth it to put in more uber diamonds?)

4. For the remainder skill points, is it worth it to put more into claw mastery or is it better to put into shadow master? currently i'm on around 92-93% chance to hit on tundra mobs, and the 1 point wonder shadow master got killed rather easily especially againts bosses.

Thank you


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 Post subject: Re: Need Assassin equipment advice and othe questions
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 1:32 pm 

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1. Fade is hardpoints only for the dmg reduction (least on HU). Max dmg reduction you get out of it is 20%

2. Pheonix is not fire skill, doesn't matter if U charge the meteor. Not sure about the +%fire dmg. You can try a claw with ral runes in it to see how it responds to fire% increase

3. 50% dr is max I think, if you get equipt to go above 50%, it will still be 50% effective DR. tank sin maxes fade and claw block(or so i heard). With claw block you are already negating a decent part of the dmg floating around. Diamonds may carry you further than rubies for tank-titude

4. Shadow master will only tank so much as a 1 pt wonder, maxed it can be a ok distraction along with your merc for trash, don't count on shadow master for act end bosses, best it can pull off is some lower bosses tanking or least distracting. You could try pumping venom a bit if your necro friend is not poison based. I'd max fade before thinking about other skills


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 Post subject: Re: Need Assassin equipment advice and othe questions
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 7:47 pm 
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rajawal1 wrote:
1. I know that fade got hidden bonus, that is damage percentage reduction including soft point. However, I read somewhere in HU forum that the max damage reduction is set at 50%. Let's say that with equipment, my fade is level 40 (hence 40% damage reduction). If i wear tyrael's might + steelrend + worldstone granite (additional around 27%), will the damage reduction become 67%? or will it stay at 50%?


That is how Fade functioned last patch, currently it will only add DR based upon hard points. So 20% is the cap for DR granted by Fade.
Also, about the mechanics of DR, technically you can have over 50%, but you won't ever reduce more than 50% of damage. Having more than 50% DR only comes into play when affected by Amplify Damage or Decreprify. If you have 75% Damage Reduction and are cursed with a 30% reduction, you'll have 45% DR.

rajawal1 wrote:
2. I noticed that when I use equipment with + fire skill, my phoenix strike skill didn't get the +skill bonus. I'm wondering whether the +fire damage from facets add damage to the fire&DPS from meteor phoenix strike or not? same question for the pierce also. I have no way to test this. I hope someone who understand the mechanic can explain this.


Phoenix Strike isn't treated as a Fire skill and does not benefit from +Fire%/+Lit%/+Cold% mods. It also does not receive benefits from +Fire Skills gear (such as Lavagouts). However, it DOES work with passive pierce.

rajawal1 wrote:
3. Me and my necro friend are planning to farm bosses shards in the future. My role is obviously to tank and do some damage if possible. Which one is better to put into my helmet and body socket...is it rubies or diamonds (somewhat related to question 1 because if I got 50% DR, is it worth it to put in more uber diamonds?)


Some will say Diamonds, but I would suggest Rubies. Assassins have the highest life per vitality point in the game (tied with Pally/Barb) and benefit greatly from the %Life Rubies give. If you're concerned about defense, even 1 pointed, Cloak of Shadows gives a pretty nice defense bonus (30% per point, can't remember the base Def%)
The life increase is especially important if you're not rolling with any Oak/BO (or crappy Oak/BO), as your life won't be very high without any sort of Life% increase mod.

rajawal1 wrote:
4. For the remainder skill points, is it worth it to put more into claw mastery or is it better to put into shadow master? currently i'm on around 92-93% chance to hit on tundra mobs, and the 1 point wonder shadow master got killed rather easily especially againts bosses.


Both are a viable choice. If you're lacking AR, it can't hurt to pump Claw Mastery for the small 10% AR Boost. (Dclaw gives 30% per point, if you haven't maxed it). Shadow Master is only really solid against sub-bosses. My maxed Shadow Master doesn't have a problem tanking Hell sub-bosses with Oak around, but against Act bosses you're pretty much screwed by the long cast delay. It's really a personal preference which to dump your points into.

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 Post subject: Re: Need Assassin equipment advice and othe questions
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 8:52 pm 
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Quote:
Phoenix Strike isn't treated as a Fire skill and does not benefit from +Fire%/+Lit%/+Cold% mods. It also does not receive benefits from +Fire Skills gear (such as Lavagouts). However, it DOES work with passive pierce.


Yeh that sux. Each of those assassin chargeups need a 1 in the "apply mastery" column in missiles.txt

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 Post subject: Re: Need Assassin equipment advice and othe questions
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:17 am 

Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:21 pm
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PureRage-DoD wrote:
Quote:
Phoenix Strike isn't treated as a Fire skill and does not benefit from +Fire%/+Lit%/+Cold% mods. It also does not receive benefits from +Fire Skills gear (such as Lavagouts). However, it DOES work with passive pierce.


Yeh that sux. Each of those assassin chargeups need a 1 in the "apply mastery" column in missiles.txt


Can this be done in the next patch please?


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 Post subject: Re: Need Assassin equipment advice and othe questions
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:44 am 

Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:21 pm
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Thanks hex, abominae, and purerage for replying.


Abominae wrote:

That is how Fade functioned last patch, currently it will only add DR based upon hard points. So 20% is the cap for DR granted by Fade.
Also, about the mechanics of DR, technically you can have over 50%, but you won't ever reduce more than 50% of damage. Having more than 50% DR only comes into play when affected by Amplify Damage or Decreprify. If you have 75% Damage Reduction and are cursed with a 30% reduction, you'll have 45% DR.


According to: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9 softpoints also included. I guess that's from 2009 then.


Abominae wrote:

Phoenix Strike isn't treated as a Fire skill and does not benefit from +Fire%/+Lit%/+Cold% mods. It also does not receive benefits from +Fire Skills gear (such as Lavagouts). However, it DOES work with passive pierce.


That just wrong then, considering meteor dps is a whole lot more than the fire claw. Any chance of "fixing" this into the next patch as purerage mentioned?
I guess those fire facets that I gathered will be up for trade soon since they're only effective for the passive pierce.
The same goes for Griffon. COA sounds better suited for my sin.

Abominae wrote:
Both are a viable choice. If you're lacking AR, it can't hurt to pump Claw Mastery for the small 10% AR Boost. (Dclaw gives 30% per point, if you haven't maxed it). Shadow Master is only really solid against sub-bosses. My maxed Shadow Master doesn't have a problem tanking Hell sub-bosses with Oak around, but against Act bosses you're pretty much screwed by the long cast delay. It's really a personal preference which to dump your points into.


Since I just figured out that fade % DR only applies for hard points, then the rest of my skill points will be spent there for tanking purposes.
Hopefully with other gear (steelrend gloves, shadowdancer boots, WSG belt, COA Helm) i can get to around 35%DR or so . Tyrael might is cool, but it got too high str requirement.

I got 1 more question.
Is it worth it to put 2x ber for 10%DR and 2 uber diamonds into a templar compared to 4 Uber diamonds into a templar?


Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Need Assassin equipment advice and othe questions
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:53 am 

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I'd lean more to 4 uber diamonds. Reason is, most times the thing that kills you on a boss attempt is the little elemental stuffs that the boss spews out.

They are lots and lots of small hits, each coming at you at the same time. Bers won't guard against it, but uber diamonds will work wonders


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 Post subject: Re: Need Assassin equipment advice and othe questions
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:34 am 
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PureRage-DoD wrote:
Yeh that sux. Each of those assassin chargeups need a 1 in the "apply mastery" column in missiles.txt

Thank you for letting me know, will make that adjustment in missles.txt and hopefully that will get it fixed up.

Since it is serverside, it might end up with a display error, but at least it will be in there.

Question though - will this unbalance the build?

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 Post subject: Re: Need Assassin equipment advice and othe questions
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:50 am 
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I assume it is this?

royalstrikemeteor
royalstrikemeteorcenter
royalstrikemeteortail
royalstrikemeteorexplode
royalstrikemeteorfire
royalstrikechainlightning
royalstrikechaosice


and ApplyMastery in missles.txt is empty for every single skill. Adding "1" to that is the right call?

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 Post subject: Re: Need Assassin equipment advice and othe questions
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:03 pm 
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yeh thats right.

Also may want to check fists of fire, claws of thunder and blades of ice as blizz likely missed thosetoo.

I dont see it unbalancing the build. The damage will always be hampered by the time it takes to charge up and release. Plus using fcets/+skill damge gear will lower survivability.

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 Post subject: Re: Need Assassin equipment advice and othe questions
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:14 pm 

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blue_myriddn wrote:
PureRage-DoD wrote:
Yeh that sux. Each of those assassin chargeups need a 1 in the "apply mastery" column in missiles.txt

Thank you for letting me know, will make that adjustment in missles.txt and hopefully that will get it fixed up.

Since it is serverside, it might end up with a display error, but at least it will be in there.

Question though - will this unbalance the build?


I can't think of a reason why this will unbalance the build. It's simply adding the %fire damage to the existing meteor fire damage from the charges; in which should already be added in the first place.
The damage from meteor charge is allright atm, but it could be better with additional %fire damage. Besides, it will give us options to put in facets or more diamonds/rubies for tanking.

As long as the meteor damage didn't get additional %damage from +lightning % damage and +cold% damage, it should be balance.
i.e.
first charge of phoenix only get more damage from +%fire damage.
second charge of phoenix strike only get more damage from +% lightning damage
third charge of phoenix strike only get more damage from +%cold damage


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 Post subject: Re: Need Assassin equipment advice and othe questions
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:20 pm 
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rajawal1 wrote:
I can't think of a reason why this will unbalance the build.

If the build functions well without these changes, will it function "holy freakn awesome" with them?

Does that provide the question in a format that you can understand?

Also - would be very helpful to provide some numbers, figures, screenshots, etc on elemental assassin melee builds. As you can see from here: http://blue.arimyth.com/Screenshots.html we don't have a lot on record.

I see no reason to fix this error and create an even better version of fire/cold druids.

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 Post subject: Re: Need Assassin equipment advice and othe questions
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:01 pm 
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the meteor damage is "ok" for trash, but you still have to get in close to enemys, charge and release. I had a vid a while ago but not sure if i still have it.

In comparison to dtail is is still very weak though. 1 point dtail uncharged was clearing trash just as fast as maxed phoenix strike + fists of fire + claws of thunder. You get all 3 charges now though so that 18k dtail would have to be around 50k (simply by charging 1 pointed tiger strike?)

Even saying that, it still takes a while to fully charge (counting misses etc) its the full build is an 80 pointer (not counting fade and claw mastery + 1 pointers)

Charging fists of fire, clws of thunder, blades of ice, and phoenix strike was outputting 120k (per 5 secs after charging and skill switching is taken into account?)

As its all 3 elements, the % to each one will be rather low (if you go for all 3) so only 1 element will get most of the buffing while the other 2 will be left around the same as it is now.

As an assassin brings little in the way of party friendlyness, I'd say it would be a warranted change for a char that needs to go toe to toe to deal its damage while having no self lifebuff

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 Post subject: Re: Need Assassin equipment advice and othe questions
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:27 pm 
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How does fist of fire and that work? Is it a case of BOOM, room clear? I tossed a 2-3 points in it on my online mental sin test and the skill seems kinda interesting.

Does it get pretty powerful end game? Would it need to be altered a bit if mastery was boosted?

I don't really think changing this is going to make a big impact since -res already works and that is where the real mojo is, just trying to avoid breaking something that isn't really all that broken.

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 Post subject: Re: Need Assassin equipment advice and othe questions
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:32 pm 
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nah it's not a boom, room dead skill. The range is 6 yards I think and the fire patches duration is really bad (can't stack it due to chargeup time).

Claws of thunder is very bad, the charged bolts released go in all directions so there is an inability to focus them all on 1 target and again, charge time is a factor. Especially when you think, there is a nova and maybe 3 bolts hitting a target per second for relatively low damage. Compared to a sorc,s nova being released 3 times a sec or chanrge bolts focused onto 1 target 3 times a sec.

Blades of ice is really not worth the investment of 40 points (including synergy) as the damage is very low, even when applied over its range. + getting the third charge isn't worth the time taken to strike again when you could be charging to do actual damage after the second strike.

If anything, fists of fire will be the one to watch out for but I dont think it'll be anything spectacular even early game as the majority of +% comes later in the game.

Maybe drrod or furycury or abominae will have more info on this, as I know they like their assassins.

I think steel has a phoenix sin too.

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 Post subject: Re: Need Assassin equipment advice and othe questions
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:39 pm 
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I'm a little confused on the Blades of Ice, Fist of Fire, and Claws of Thunder discussion happening. Are you talking about allowing them to receive benefits from +% skill damage?
Blades of Ice, Fists of Fire, and Claws of Thunder already all benefit from their respective +% skill damage types. (Actually unsure about CoT, but I know BoI & FoF benefit)
You can hit ~80k Blades of Ice fully twinked with perfect facets, which still isn't very impressive considering charge skills are capped at 7FPA, which is further slowed by the strikes you miss due to block/AR and, of course, Weapon Block. When charging 1-2 on BoI, you're pretty much going to release around 1 time per second. Faster or slower depending on how rapid you're Weapon Block is going off.

Oh, one thing to note, it seems like the fire patch damage for Fists of Fire does NOT benefit from +% skill fire damage, but the initial fire damage does. This may be a display error, but only the initial fire impact is boosted when equipping +% Fire skill gear.

I only have limited experience with Phoenix Strike sins, as I've always considered them pretty crappy. I got one to NM this patch, but quickly canned it for different Assassin builds. The charge-up playstyle is nice, but Dragon Tail highly outclasses what the build offers by quite a bit. The all-release change was a great one though, and without it I doubt the build would function well at all.
Unreasonably twinked (perf facets, ele jewelry, perf ele-craft, Thul/Ral/Ort off-claw), an Assassin can get ~120% skill damage, so keep that in mind when implementing mastery to Phoenix Strike.

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 Post subject: Re: Need Assassin equipment advice and othe questions
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:54 pm 
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Abominae wrote:
I'm a little confused on the Blades of Ice, Fist of Fire, and Claws of Thunder discussion happening. Are you talking about allowing them to receive benefits from +% skill damage?

yep
Abominae wrote:
Blades of Ice, Fists of Fire, and Claws of Thunder already all benefit from their respective +% skill damage types. (Actually unsure about CoT, but I know BoI & FoF benefit)

sweet - that simplifies that then ;)

Abominae wrote:
Unreasonably twinked (perf facets, ele jewelry, perf ele-craft, Thul/Ral/Ort off-claw), an Assassin can get ~120% skill damage, so keep that in mind when implementing mastery to Phoenix Strike.

Which is pretty on par with the dmg boost from valor/armageddon which is why I was a little nervous about just tossing this in without some concern.

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