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I won't even get into the fact that another sorc build has to divert 20 points from their build to TK as without TK at a decent level, es is totally terrible anyway...

Also, the first (and possibly only) char to kill the los necro without abusing his AI and trapping him was a TK/ES sorc, but yeh they totally need a buff.

It's strange how ppl build their opinion about some chars

last ladder, near the halfway of ladder lightning gcs costed more than pnb gcs. To contrast javas gc were almost free

- I had 18(but never got past 95 with psn zon) in gear and gave extra to Kruno, he managed to get his lfury to 11k or 12k. It's strange how ppl build their opinion about some chars

Lightning GCs likely shot up in price since TK sorcs are one of the only classes that can kill the los necro efficiently and safely.

Lightning GCs likely shot up in price since TK sorcs are one of the only classes that can kill the los necro efficiently and safely. They're the only sorc that can really utilize ES without sacrificing huge damage, and since necros of all sorts were pretty much the bread and butter, you'd always want to kill the necro.

Finally, poison zons outdamaged necros last season if there was an LR curse on the target, but since they couldn't cast their own LR, necros did more damage.

ARbug - yeah cloud, releasing it without even hitting anything. I call it a bug even tho it was intended but in the end heavily abused.

What IS bugged about AR and poison skills is plague javelin, if you don't actually hit with the javelin physically they just heal.

Author:	lod254 [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 6:28 pm ]
Post subject:	TK Sorc
I've heard about TK sorcs. Are they still viable? It seems they were a bigger thing in old patches. I hear its a strong 1on1 attack and charged bolt is for trash. This couples with the obvious choice of going ES sorc all in the same char sounds fun. 20 TK 20 CB 20 ES 20 LM? Some cold attack and 1 in CM as a back-up Id assume for light immunes.

Author:	drithe123 [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:06 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TK Sorc
i would do something like 20 cb tk and es 1 in lit mastery, then maybe 20 in the first cold armor and the one that shoots mini ranged counters (great gimmick there for certain bosses) you can augment your gear with diamonds to get uber high defense and dr/mdr, coupled with es and a decent block you'll be sitting pretty =D

Author:	lod254 [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TK Sorc
Why only 1 LM? It's linear and the 10% more dmg per point looks appealing.

Author:	drithe123 [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:50 am ]
Post subject:	Re: TK Sorc
It also buffs all your spells with just soft points, unlike actual synergies. A big misconception people have is that without maxing all your damage skills you won't do good damage, this isn't the case, mostly because of elemental pierce.

Author:	Angel [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TK Sorc
1k damage TK You max 2 of the synergies yielding 200% increased damage. 3k TK. 1 point LM brings it to ~35, 355=175 2.753k = 8250 If you maxed LM 3.7*3k = 11100 Substantial increase.

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TK Sorc http://forum.arimyth.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3781	Page 1 of 1

Author:	Verb [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TK Sorc
if you're going ES then I would recommend maxing warmth for the mana reg and it also give mdr I think.

Author:	mcpl slackbag [ Tue May 03, 2011 11:33 am ]
Post subject:	Re: TK Sorc
wondering whether a TK sorc would necessarily be forced into an energy centric build. could you focus on vit and res, effectively? would a ES/energy build with pzn reduction and mdr/pdr stacks be better overall? what do you guys think is the best balance of vit/energy for an ES centric build that would be played thru the game (as in will need to deal with mana burn)? i would also assume the same basic gear setup as a meteor or blizz sorc, or any caster build in general actually. (temps/griffs/zaks/HHG) and a fathom. amirite?

Author:	PureRage-DoD [ Tue May 03, 2011 2:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TK Sorc
you can get 6k mana easily by going pure vita on an es sorc. 6k mana es is ok as an early warning system and recovering 600 mana per sec makes it pretty strong. You also have the fall back a decent life pool for when you get mana burned. I used that setup on my old HC static/nova sorc and she done fantastic. (took her to 100)

Author:	blinky99 [ Tue May 03, 2011 2:55 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TK Sorc
how such high mana with pure vita, my 99 pure vita cept str sorc has like 900 mana tops, suppose u use 2x sojs caster boots etc?

Author:	PureRage-DoD [ Tue May 03, 2011 3:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TK Sorc
high mana charms (59-60 with fhr if possible), 2 perf soj's, etc. 600 flat buffable mana from charms is easy to come by (most folks dont want em).

Author:	blinky99 [ Tue May 03, 2011 3:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TK Sorc
i got a lota 40-50 mana charms and some 50/50 life mana gc's even hmm sacrifice a lot of damage with out the +1 +10% light rings though

Author:	PureRage-DoD [ Tue May 03, 2011 4:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TK Sorc
it'll cost you at the very most, an extra 20-25 casts on a boss but you get a massive mana boost so can cast for longer and absorb more damage. It's a good tradeoff imo for the added survivability.

Author:	blinky99 [ Tue May 03, 2011 4:24 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TK Sorc
you use any uber saphiers in your gear? or that belt that increases max mana and crafted max mana boots?

Author:	PureRage-DoD [ Tue May 03, 2011 4:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TK Sorc
i used saphs in gear till 85 then switched to 4 facets in armor, 2 in helm and 2 uber saphs (used a holy craft circ for a while with 3 light skills, 20fcr and some other nice mods) 2 facets in hhg. comes out at over 100% pierce with fathom, a big pdr/mdr boost, a big flat life and mana boost, decent number of + skills and easy max res. used to solo run all of a5 for drops and exp in fully loaded games with no problems. Survivability ftw imo though. you may want to go for more damage, remember you don't do any damage while you are running back to get your body though

Author:	blinky99 [ Wed May 04, 2011 9:07 am ]
Post subject:	Re: TK Sorc
but e shield is a synergy to tk and what not cb not sure if it is not sure what lvl it will be after +skills shards brain etc but may be around 90%?

Author:	PureRage-DoD [ Wed May 04, 2011 9:45 am ]
Post subject:	Re: TK Sorc
tk sorc should really be pure energy or at least 30/70 life/mana. NP though, just switch to no weapon/shield for casting es. possibly remove your armor/helm. gt the skill levels low so you have as low a % absorbing es as you can. It'll take the edge of incoming damage but wont pop es super fast since it's not absorbing so much damage. The lower you can get ES vs elemental bosses the better.

Author:	Steel [ Wed May 04, 2011 4:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TK Sorc
Maybe caping it at 75% always? Wouldn't that be too awesome for mdr/pdr users with a2 medi merc. I believe we CAN'T change much of synergies as it was SM design. But balancing something he always wanted should be discussed - and with some luck - approved by him.

Author:	Angel [ Wed May 04, 2011 7:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TK Sorc
I'm not so sure about 75% cap, I feel as though you shouldn't have to take your items up to lower the % however. You should be able to adapt what % of ES you want based on your health and life, and this should be done through hard-points opposed to removing gear. Another flaw with the TK+CB build is that CB has two synergies that you're not going to be able to fully max. Skills that have so many synergies where it's literally impossible to max all of them shouldn't exist. Removing one of the synergies, buffing the %s of the other ones, and adjusting ES to not be a synergy with everything would go a long way in making it a far more enjoyable build to run. I started one, and I'm pretty much forced to run pure energy as I'll have 95% ES. I far prefer 75% ES builds, but it's just not possible to run.

Author:	blinky99 [ Tue May 03, 2011 4:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TK Sorc
where does big pdr/mdr come from

Author:	PureRage-DoD [ Tue May 03, 2011 6:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TK Sorc
disciple set + frozen armor. its not a huge amount but enough to lay waste to any damage getting past your es and will take the edge off abit when es goes down

Author:	blinky99 [ Tue May 03, 2011 10:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TK Sorc
sounds good for NM but what about hell gear? templar? griff? hhg? fathom? still use dual sojs? caster craft boots? zaka amulet? use uber saphs uber diamonds or light facets, obviously uber topaz in fathom. or maybe mang song for the life/mana buff?

Author:	PureRage-DoD [ Tue May 03, 2011 11:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TK Sorc
no, i used disciple till level 100. Still able to kill stuff solo in an 8 player game (3-4 mins per tundra due to never taking any damage and never having to back off). If you want both high life and a big mana pool you will have to ditch the higher end stuff that everyone uses without putting any thought into it and make your own setup that works for you. My sorc was HC so I went for awesome survivability. Didn't slow down her kill speed since 1-2 casts would kill everything anyway. 1 extra cast to kill a mob isn't a problem. You can still get 110% pierce easily with that gear. fathom + hhg + disciples + soj's + mana charms + a nice circlet should net you around 5k life and 6-7k mana with self bo. I did try the uniques setup but i hated how fragile it made her and i had to play alot more defensively using it (boooo). If it's sc you would probs be just aswell going for as much damage as possible and screw survivability. Not like it takes long to tele back to pick up your corpse when you do wipe. Ps, cast ES with a "unbuff" setup to keep it's level down and its % as a result. around 70% is perfect as your PDR/MDR will absorb the remaining 30% and your ES will take less damage as a result. Thats only if you are pure vita though, if its an energy build then you would wanna keep it as high level as poss.

Author:	Angel [ Wed May 04, 2011 3:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TK Sorc
Personally I think ES being a synergy is fucking retarded since it forces you to have a high % ES where as ES should be balanced level wise based on how much life/mana you have. You can't synergize it to your life and mana because you need to max it. Should make the synergy lightning, works better with CB anyways.

Author:	blinky99 [ Wed May 04, 2011 4:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TK Sorc
agree

Author:	blinky99 [ Wed May 04, 2011 10:35 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TK Sorc
im gona just put one point in es and see how i fair and save points max cb and LM and tk rest i dont know, 50 vit rest in energy and str for gear

Author:	Angel [ Wed May 04, 2011 10:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TK Sorc
So your TK is going to do no damage? ES = synergy for TK.

Author:	PureRage-DoD [ Thu May 05, 2011 5:51 am ]
Post subject:	Re: TK Sorc
You know nobody says you have to use energy shield. How many poison zons use poison javelin over plague? how many fire druids use fissure over boulder/firestorm? There are alot more too. Maybe a few people use them but not everybody. You can go pure vita and just not use energy shield. You can use it in places with very little elemental damage only if you like. It's also not effected by resist lowering skills and with tk maxed it has a 25% resistance to everything, magic and physical included. Anyway, you can already get 4k mana easily as a pure vita sorc so I don't really see the problem here. Hell my hydra sorc has 1.8k mana without using sojs, good caster boots or mana charms.

Author:	blinky99 [ Thu May 05, 2011 10:59 am ]
Post subject:	Re: TK Sorc
CB and light mastery are also synergies to TK

Author:	Angel [ Thu May 05, 2011 4:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TK Sorc
Your arguement is retarded. It's like saying, why don't people use firebolt over fireball. No one uses poison jav over plague jav because they're essentially the same skill just one does far more damage. ES isn't a damage skill, it's a defensive skill, and while you can choose to go vita(not saying it's a bad thing) you could choose to do the same thing if the synergies made more sense. Also, if you're running 4k health/4k mana on an ES sorc you're just hurting yourself. That's the point, a 60% ES or even a 75% ES at those levels will be FAR more beneficial in reducing incoming damage to acceptable levels. Plus 4k mana is stretching it, with mana charms I scratch up about 1.5 on my necro, which would translate to about 2k on a sorc.

Author:	PureRage-DoD [ Thu May 05, 2011 8:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TK Sorc
:roll whatever you say guy. I won't even get into the fact that another sorc build has to divert 20 points from their build to TK as without TK at a decent level, es is totally terrible anyway... Also, the first (and possibly only) char to kill the los necro without abusing his AI and trapping him was a TK/ES sorc, but yeh they totally need a buff.

Author:	Angel [ Thu May 05, 2011 9:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TK Sorc
Quote: I won't even get into the fact that another sorc build has to divert 20 points from their build to TK as without TK at a decent level, es is totally terrible anyway... Oh, you mean my whole fucking point? Thanks for confirming it. Quote: Also, the first (and possibly only) char to kill the los necro without abusing his AI and trapping him was a TK/ES sorc, but yeh they totally need a buff. Oh boy, he can kill a single boss because of the sole fact bone<95% ES. Grats, does he do good against andy too?

Author:	PureRage-DoD [ Fri May 06, 2011 4:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TK Sorc
Way to get mad man. You are talking about change for the sake of change. Thanks but theres more important things than one of the strongest defensive sorc builds in the game needing a fucking buff. You failed at building yours, thats fine, just dont use ES or don't build it in the future. Stop fucking wasting folks time with these stupid ideas. Its nobodys fault but yours if you can't work out how to make the best use of your ES. I don't think you realise exactly how well an ES sorc can tank. Ever see a sorc with no battle orders stand in the middle of 2 unique los wyrms with amp and not bat an eye lid? Your whole point is that another build has to spend to points to get a half decent es thereby either gimping their damage early game, or having a terrible terrible es through 90% of the game? Not to mention the fact that if they do max tk, they will still have way less mana regeneration (100ish a sec vs a full energy builds 800-1k per sec). the ES of another build will never be as strong as a propper pure energy ES. Remember you are free to spend 20 of your points maxing frozen armor or warmth (warmth + tk sorc = amazing ES) Theres absolotely nothing wrong with ES, every sorc build I've made has used ES, its still nothing like as strong as the ES of a TK sorc. It's handy as an early warning system but thats about it. So stop your moaning and try discussing something worthwhile instead of trying to make changes to something that is already fine. Ps: you felt the need to make 2 topics about exactly the same thing, why? /rant /argument /discussion

Author:	lod254 [ Sat May 07, 2011 7:51 am ]
Post subject:	Re: TK Sorc
All this talking has me interested in the TK sorc again. After I get my bone necro up, I may use him to twink a TK sorc.

Author:	mcpl slackbag [ Sat May 07, 2011 11:03 am ]
Post subject:	Re: TK Sorc
me too haha i wouldnt doubt we see a huge influx of es/tk sorcs on the ladder soon

Author:	Steel [ Sat May 07, 2011 11:10 am ]
Post subject:	Re: TK Sorc
last ladder, near the halfway of ladder lightning gcs costed more than pnb gcs. To contrast javas gc were almost free - I had 18(but never got past 95 with psn zon) in gear and gave extra to Kruno, he managed to get his lfury to 11k or 12k. It's strange how ppl build their opinion about some chars .

Author:	blinky99 [ Sat May 07, 2011 6:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TK Sorc
so im doing prety well 1 pt in ES and its 74%. already max tk cb and LM, not sure what else to next around 3k mana self bo 1.5k life with full disciple set but haven't put anything in the sockets [50 base vita] 225 energy so far 125 unused stats. 2x lame sojs as well also 32 mdr/pdr diamond star unique circlet thinking may just make this pvp char and max tstorm static/nova 57 total mdr/pdr elemental rapes my mana pool meele not really much in a3 nm not sure if i should go diamonds or blues in my armor

Author:	Zikur [ Sat May 07, 2011 9:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TK Sorc
Steel wrote: It's strange how ppl build their opinion about some chars . fotm

Author:	Angel [ Sun May 08, 2011 9:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TK Sorc
Quote: last ladder, near the halfway of ladder lightning gcs costed more than pnb gcs. To contrast javas gc were almost free - I had 18(but never got past 95 with psn zon) in gear and gave extra to Kruno, he managed to get his lfury to 11k or 12k. It's strange how ppl build their opinion about some chars . Necros had LR+amp 1 pt wonders, millions of summons, cleared trash in 1/10th the time, had ridiculous physical mercs to work with their amp. Lightning GCs likely shot up in price since TK sorcs are one of the only classes that can kill the los necro efficiently and safely. They're the only sorc that can really utilize ES without sacrificing huge damage, and since necros of all sorts were pretty much the bread and butter, you'd always want to kill the necro. Finally, poison zons outdamaged necros last season if there was an LR curse on the target, but since they couldn't cast their own LR, necros did more damage.