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 Post subject: Melee vs Duriel in Nightmare
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:09 am 
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From what I can see (http://blue.arimyth.com/BossResists.html), Nightmare Duriel has an effective physical resist of 78% (45+33) and a drain efficiency of 30% - which means there should be some notable leeching going on.

How are people finding the melee battle against Duriel?

I am also curious how melee players stack up against:

Hell countess 88% (50+33%) 25DE
Hell Sarina 88% (50+33%) 25DE
Hell Acaste 66% (33+33%) 0DE
Hell Griswold 88% (50+33) 0DE

Please be specific and include:
- your listed damage
- how much crit/deadly you are using
- attack speed
(you can get those 3 all at once from the Dmg calculator if you want, or just list them individually)
- approximation of time for the battle (2 min, 5 min, etc, etc)
- sources of amp
- how much life/resists you had for the fight.

Videos are wonderful and certainly encouraged.

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 Post subject: Re: Melee vs Duriel in Nightmare
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 10:05 am 
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I haven't seen a melee character for over a month.


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 Post subject: Re: Melee vs Duriel in Nightmare
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 10:18 am 
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stars wrote:
I haven't seen a melee character for over a month.

great chance for you to make one and try him out against NM dury.

that way, you will have something useful to post rather than just a smart ass comment ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Melee vs Duriel in Nightmare
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 10:57 am 

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i could take my 98 barb and go try to leach him


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 Post subject: Re: Melee vs Duriel in Nightmare
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:05 am 
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blinky99 wrote:
i could take my 98 barb and go try to leach him

sure.
things that would be interesting to know would be:

how much dmg your barb does (dmg calc can be handy for this)
attack speed
how long it takes you to kill dury
ballpark on how much you leech back
whether or not you proc amp/decrep

details make all the difference

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 Post subject: Re: Melee vs Duriel in Nightmare
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:56 pm 
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I am also curious how melee characters stack up against Hell countess.

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 Post subject: Re: Melee vs Duriel in Nightmare
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:18 pm 
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iirc, when I fought NM Duriel, there was some LL, but not much. My fury mutt was the damage dealer, but the only reason I could stand there was due to a healer. I was sporting at least 25 LL at that time, and at least some stacked resists.

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 Post subject: Re: Melee vs Duriel in Nightmare
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:58 pm 
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You're forgetting Duriel gets additional physical resistance from Smite when its active.
Anyway, I've done Nightmare Duriel with the same melee build in two very different scenarios this ladder. Both instances were with single spawned Duriel.

1) Untwinked with 1 point Amplify Damage. Party was Dclaw Sin (me), Sum Nec (Lee), Meteor Sorc (drrod) (+bo bitch)
2) Twinked with maxed Amplify Damage. Party was Dclaw Sin (me), Sum Nec (Ares), Bladesin (Delta) (+bo bitch)


In the first scenario, the damage I dealt to Duriel was pathetic. Without maxed Amplify Damage and twinked gear, it was one of those many situations where it wasn't even worth attacking as a melee.
As a rough estimate, I was probably doing ~4-9k damage at the time, as I know I was hitting 9-16k+ twinked at that point. 5 FPA attack with ~40% Critical Strike.
I was using 2x of the level 60 Claws as it wasn't feasible to have 2x level 75 claws at that point in the game.
Anyway, the fight basically consisted of me attempting to do damage at first while we have our meteor sorc build up patches. Then we just switched to LR while I tanked because Meteor damage was so significantly better than what I was producing. I basically dealt no damage that fight, and honestly could have not been there as our Necromancer was spamming Blades the entire time.
It was the first of many fights that my character felt incredibly useless.


The second scenario was better, but that's to be expected when I'm using the best gear I could possibly obtain for my level. Our Necromancer had maxed Amplify Damage and my damage was around twice of what it was during my untwinked playthrough. (Same FPA, around the same Critical Strike)
Duriel went down decently (I didn't time it or anything) but it wasn't frustratingly long. Probably around the same amount of time it took the untwinked meteor sorceress to take him down. It was manageable fight, but that's a given in a single-spawned, twinked as hell run-through.
It felt good to actually deal damage, but an equally twinked good elemental character would have done it 2-3x quicker at that spawn.
Never really payed attention to leech, but I assume it helps. In all honestly, Duriel hits like like a little girl past his Leap Attack.

As far as tanking anything goes, my Sin tanked every Hell act boss save post-game & Baal + crew. Tanking isn't the issue, at least not for my character. It's always damage, and her damage is far from low. It's actually extremely high for a melee character that has access to block & Curse Immunity.

As far as dealing damage to Hell Act bosses, well Andariel is the only one she could take out with maxed Amplify Damage. It took awhile, but it was manageable. That's also single-spawned though, and while I was the main damage dealer in that instance, I wasn't alone in my damage.
Everything past Andariel is extremely similar to the 1pt Amplify Damage NM Duriel fight. Except this is against Hell bosses with maxed Amplify Damage. Sub-bosses are still doable with maxed Amplify Damage, but follows the same instance of an equally geared elemental character doing it much, much, faster, without the reliance on a Necromancer who has maxed Amplify Damage.
Don't take that last line the wrong way, I have no problem relying on Amplify Damage to do significant damage. I just have a problem when a Necromancer must MAX it in order for me to do significant damage.

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 Post subject: Re: Melee vs Duriel in Nightmare
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:23 pm 
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first post updated with some more info.

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 Post subject: Re: Melee vs Duriel in Nightmare
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:30 pm 

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4-12k zeal and ww dmg, amp lvl 3 from gores 40% LL

i can leach and dmg him with constant amp id say maybe 10 to 15 min fight to kill


Last edited by blinky99 on Thu Apr 21, 2011 10:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Melee vs Duriel in Nightmare
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:13 pm 
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thats 10, 15 mins right? not 1,015 mins total?


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 Post subject: Re: Melee vs Duriel in Nightmare
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:42 am 

Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 3:16 am
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Mitia i need like 5 mins to kill it on hell.
Griswold with sanctuary i need like 30 sec to kill him.
Acaste, i usualy die cause of iron maiden.
Duriel 2 shots me and it seems i do no dmg to him at all.
...
All the other bosses are just imposible to be killed. They have a huge resist to physical.


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 Post subject: Re: Melee vs Duriel in Nightmare
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 10:21 am 

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right 10 to 15 min, keep in mind i only have one point in WW, and zeak from the sam charm, and using a grandfather sword/shield combo no auras or fanta, and amp proc from gores is like 1% ctc lvl 3 pathetic


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 Post subject: Re: Melee vs Duriel in Nightmare
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 2:39 pm 
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any more thoughts? This is close to the model I am looking at for phys resist adjustments, so now is the time to speak up.

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 Post subject: Re: Melee vs Duriel in Nightmare
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 4:34 pm 

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blinky99 wrote:
4-12k zeal and ww dmg, amp lvl 3 from gores 40% LL

i can leach and dmg him with constant amp id say maybe 10 to 15 min fight to kill


for a lvl 95+ barb to solo him in 10-15 minutes... is a little much

i could see raising the CB values and making all hell bosses model him a great idea.

or the alternative id like to see the phy resist a little lower.
cause that same barb would have to spend 15-20 on hell andy with these properties and by Baal itll be 30+ minutes based on this


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 Post subject: Re: Melee vs Duriel in Nightmare
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 6:11 pm 

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Hell Andy would take an hour or more with ctc amp.


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 Post subject: Re: Melee vs Duriel in Nightmare
PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 3:23 am 

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1 hour ? :) I cant tank andy for more then 5 mins. I remain out of pots :)


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 Post subject: Re: Melee vs Duriel in Nightmare
PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 3:55 am 

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tase wrote:
1 hour ? :) I cant tank andy for more then 5 mins. I remain out of pots :)


Truth he speaks.


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 Post subject: Re: Melee vs Duriel in Nightmare
PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 6:09 pm 

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Yeah, I had a healer healing me for 45+ minutes and most of the damage was done by some random sorc.


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 Post subject: Re: Melee vs Duriel in Nightmare
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 2:06 am 

Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:59 pm
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Was at nm duri last nite with a fury druid

No healer there.
No Nec
11k top end fury dmg (not really available a start of the ladder, I got some hand-me-downs to prop my dmg) with ctc amp (gavel of pain)
6 K something life bulb BO'd and oak'd. Lvl 69
Died in 2-3 seconds of approaching duriel (not even a question of life leeching...).

My guess was resists issues since I had like 18/18/13/ Fire/cold/Lit res at that point in the game (before entering room, now duriel has holy freeze...rite? ouch). And yes I am on the lookout for resist charms and my armor/helm is X socketed with resists.

I'll have another go at it when another A2 game is up and I have fixed some of the resists issues.

Thinking back, Norm Andariel was ok, had a nec w/ amp and I could tank it
Norm duriel was also ok, but here I had full tancred's. A set that only drops A3+. Also a nec w/ tap
Norm meph I had a tap nec and a wep that dropped in A4 river wp.
Norm Diablo was hard, died a few times and D healed up. A healer gets in and we'r in the clear, 2 shot after healer joins.
Norm Baal we had a healer spamming, pre-bosses were manageable. Baal was harder but seemed doable with only nec and a cube or 2 full of juvs.
Nm andy was impossible with the gear I had on me at the time, probably better gear selection would have helped (thinking death's sash/gloves and venom ward. A second druid with SoB and a pally with cleanse would have helped but should not be required, appropriate level gear (lvl 8 and 28 pieces for a char in nm at lvl 69-ish? really?) should provide enough resists as to not depend on specific classes). Spammed juvs to stay near her for ~10 secs. Juvs ran out fast at -35 pois resist, there was some lvl 99 help there to save the day.

This may be a bit premature but so far, it seems like a healer with nec backup is required to legit (as in no rush) kill any significant act end boss as a melee on later diffs. Is this the intent ?


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 Post subject: Re: Melee vs Duriel in Nightmare
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 5:30 pm 

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sorbs help as well frost, blues in shields i think he has some frost aura that does dmg


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 Post subject: Re: Melee vs Duriel in Nightmare
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 11:23 pm 

Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:59 pm
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Shields will be a no-go otherwise not enough leeching will be going on. Besides, base-ish dex. can only block so much against act end boss...


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 Post subject: Re: Melee vs Duriel in Nightmare
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 2:35 am 
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Quote:
Besides, base-ish dex. can only block so much against act end boss...


If you have a 30% chance to block against a norm fallen, you also have a 30% chance to block against hell baal. blocking is equal against all enemys, act end bosses don't bypass it by any amount.

Though i agree, a shapeshift druid with a shield is roflsauce (looks wise and balls wise), 2 hander or bust.
However, your current res makes the baby jesus cry. You might want to clear some high density areas in norm and find some res charms.

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 Post subject: Re: Melee vs Duriel in Nightmare
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 8:16 am 
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lvl69 decked out character failed miserably in an attempt to solo NM Duriel (lvl68 boss). I am content with that result.

thx for the post though - helpful info.

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 Post subject: Re: Melee vs Duriel in Nightmare
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 9:12 am 

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Oh ya, I failed at staying alive. Wasn't soloing tho, was a 6 spawn game and I had 5 mor people besides me. They died too, right about the time I died.

Lukly one of them brought their lvl 90 rabies druid (didn't ask much, they were polish/swe/something...) and I saw him use juvs quite a few times.

I'm about ready to try again my hand at nm Duri (twinked out at lvl 75-ish). Will be soloing this time, and most likely will try in the weekend.


Last edited by hex on Tue May 24, 2011 9:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Melee vs Duriel in Nightmare
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 9:23 am 
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ah.
ya - did NM dury with my healer/tanker paladin and we lost a few members along the way. Even with 3k life and my lousy block rate though which people poked fun at, I mostly just stood there in front of dury while the trappers and other casters took him down. I didn't have max resists, but they weren't as bad as yours - I think my cold res was around 55-60% and I do have a lot of dmg reduced (3 skulls in shield).

Lemme know how it goes at 75

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 Post subject: Re: Melee vs Duriel in Nightmare
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 9:34 am 

Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:59 pm
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I'm lvling my healer along with druid, and the impact the healer has is outstanding.
last nite while doing A3 nm councils in a 4 ppl game we were having issues with tanking them, started on fire one.

I was at lvl 74 armed with the Unique lvl 70 BoneHew with 800+ top dmg at 5 FPA (I know it can reach 4 fpa but I saved the moonstone ameth for another wep) and had combined a 40-ish LL from gear+ferral rage.
I had to use pots as I wasn't leeching enough to stand my ground. Had to bail at 2-3 juvs left as it was clear we werent gonna down it in time. No amp source was present. Fire/cold/lit resists were in the 30's at this time.

I pop in my healer, one "helpful" party member manages to bring in Fire+Lit councils together (sigh). This time, same party make-up, same equips on me. But aura healer present (healer same lvl as me, 74) I can tank both of the council members at the same time.

Needles to say all the other council members were cake (we skipped the PI one). The medit ammy didn't play a role in this (lvl 2 medit) since the bosses were parked out of range of the ammy and I didnt see the need to get in closer to the healer.


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