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 Post subject: dClaw and tigerstrike
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:08 pm 

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 2:41 pm
Posts: 232
Ok Guys,

I need the HU gurus to give me some feedback. I was told that it isnt worth maxing or using tigerstrike on a dragonclaw sin because the damage isnt multiplied like it would be on a dragontail kicker. Because I feel like I do more DPS just dragon clawing with maxed claw mastery on my sin in don't think it is even worth one pointing tigerstrike. So I wanted to get some feedback...is it worth putting one point on tigerstrike and doing that 3 times to charge up and then dclaw or would it just be better w maxed claw mast and dclaw to dclaw till the monsters dead? Kev, Zac, looking for you guys to throw your opinions in.


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 Post subject: Re: dClaw and tigerstrike
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:13 pm 

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 5:46 pm
Posts: 49
Test this shit on Hero Editor. Makes these complicated questions a lot easier to solve.


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 Post subject: Re: dClaw and tigerstrike
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:58 pm 

Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:35 pm
Posts: 177
r4tm wrote:
Test this shit on Hero Editor. Makes these complicated questions a lot easier to solve.

nothing hard her u get 300% damage from 3 charges tiger strike is a charge up dclaw is a finish its pretty clear which combo wins but delta has already heard my side


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 Post subject: Re: dClaw and tigerstrike
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:17 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:36 am
Posts: 969
Iirc the bonus is only added to the first swipe of the dclaw attack. Much like it is on dtalon.


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 Post subject: Re: dClaw and tigerstrike
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:44 pm 
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Not worth it, in my opinion. The fastest charge up speed you can get is 7 FPA. This means you're executing a fully charged Dragon Claw every 26 frames (little over 1 second), not accounting for Claw Block or hitting your target.
In that same time, you could just Dragon Claw 5 times (5fpa x 5 = 25 frames).

I'm not positive if Tiger Strike adds ED to both claws (character screen says yes, but we all know it's a lying son of a bitch) but even if it did Dragon Claw would still out-damage it.

It's mainly because for those 21 frames your charging up (~4 Dragon Claws), you're losing more than half your DPS (attacking with one claw, not benefiting from Dragon Claws' already massive ED).

It works perfectly fine for Dragon Tail because the ED works multiplicative, so the loss of speed doesn't outweigh the insane damage it produces. But when it comes to the additive boost of Tiger Strikes ED on top of something that already gives massive ED (Dclaw was giving me ~1400% ED on my Assassin), it just isn't worth it.

This is all assuming a maxed Tiger Strike, which can give 5k+ ED. 1 point'd, it's definitely not worth it.

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 Post subject: Re: dClaw and tigerstrike
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:47 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:36 am
Posts: 969
What is the damage cap per frame? 270k? If you hit the cap doesn't it just roll back around to the beginning or does it just stay maxed?


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 Post subject: Re: dClaw and tigerstrike
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 12:29 am 

Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:35 pm
Posts: 177
decided to bust out the editor. Max tigerstrike Max dclaw using nats set got
9k tiger 10k dclaw before charges with all three charges dcalw went to 21k and gained 2k ar.
So i would think that lose of 1k damage for a few strikes till charged vs over double damage in the end and the boost in ar would more that do justice to using it.


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 Post subject: Re: dClaw and tigerstrike
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 2:33 am 
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Location: Reno, NV
Clown wrote:
decided to bust out the editor. Max tigerstrike Max dclaw using nats set got
9k tiger 10k dclaw before charges with all three charges dcalw went to 21k and gained 2k ar.
So i would think that lose of 1k damage for a few strikes till charged vs over double damage in the end and the boost in ar would more that do justice to using it.


Hm, I don't know how you have Dragon Claw and Tiger Strike doing such similar damage. When I tested it with 500% ED Scissor Suwwayah's (equivalent to unsocketed Shadow Killers) I got 8k Tiger Strike and 28k Dragon Claw.
This was with level 35 Dragon Claw, level 35 Claw Mastery, and level 35 Tiger Strike. Not unreasonable considering end-game you get +10 from Shadow Killers alone.

The results I got were:
TS + DClaw: 90k per 26 frames.
8k TS x 3, 66k charged DClaw

Dragon: 140k per 25 frames.
28k Dragon Claw x 5

This is using the maximum damage for all measurements. This is also assuming TStrike works for both claws, which it might not given its history with the other charges.

These numbers shows me continuous Dragon Claw does more than 50% more damage than TS -> Dragon Claw.
I'm still not sure how you got 9k Strike & 10k DClaw. Did you not account for the second claw in your Dragon Claw damage?

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 Post subject: Re: dClaw and tigerstrike
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 2:59 am 
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the charge is released on the first strike that lands. easy to check it by using the first charge of phoenix strike with dclas (1 release only).

The ed bonus on dclaw is already really good, adding tiger on top of it isn't giving you a huge boost (due to dex and str already providing skill ED%)

better to ignore tiger with a dclaw sin, you can always use it with a 1 point dtail for clearing trash abit faster

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 Post subject: Re: dClaw and tigerstrike
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:14 am 

Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:35 pm
Posts: 177
Abominae wrote:
Clown wrote:
decided to bust out the editor. Max tigerstrike Max dclaw using nats set got
9k tiger 10k dclaw before charges with all three charges dcalw went to 21k and gained 2k ar.
So i would think that lose of 1k damage for a few strikes till charged vs over double damage in the end and the boost in ar would more that do justice to using it.


Hm, I don't know how you have Dragon Claw and Tiger Strike doing such similar damage. When I tested it with 500% ED Scissor Suwwayah's (equivalent to unsocketed Shadow Killers) I got 8k Tiger Strike and 28k Dragon Claw.
This was with level 35 Dragon Claw, level 35 Claw Mastery, and level 35 Tiger Strike. Not unreasonable considering end-game you get +10 from Shadow Killers alone.

The results I got were:
TS + DClaw: 90k per 26 frames.
8k TS x 3, 66k charged DClaw

Dragon: 140k per 25 frames.
28k Dragon Claw x 5

This is using the maximum damage for all measurements. This is also assuming TStrike works for both claws, which it might not given its history with the other charges.

These numbers shows me continuous Dragon Claw does more than 50% more damage than TS -> Dragon Claw.
I'm still not sure how you got 9k Strike & 10k DClaw. Did you not account for the second claw in your Dragon Claw damage?

the numbers list are from char screen and like u say that has lied before about second claws issues . only other skill i forgot to mention was 20 points claw mastery did take s/s but to lazy to go thru all the trouble to post em


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 Post subject: Re: dClaw and tigerstrike
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:44 pm 

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 2:41 pm
Posts: 232
Abominae wrote:
Not worth it, in my opinion. The fastest charge up speed you can get is 7 FPA. This means you're executing a fully charged Dragon Claw every 26 frames (little over 1 second), not accounting for Claw Block or hitting your target.
In that same time, you could just Dragon Claw 5 times (5fpa x 5 = 25 frames).

I'm not positive if Tiger Strike adds ED to both claws (character screen says yes, but we all know it's a lying son of a bitch) but even if it did Dragon Claw would still out-damage it.

It's mainly because for those 21 frames your charging up (~4 Dragon Claws), you're losing more than half your DPS (attacking with one claw, not benefiting from Dragon Claws' already massive ED).

It works perfectly fine for Dragon Tail because the ED works multiplicative, so the loss of speed doesn't outweigh the insane damage it produces. But when it comes to the additive boost of Tiger Strikes ED on top of something that already gives massive ED (Dclaw was giving me ~1400% ED on my Assassin), it just isn't worth it.

This is all assuming a maxed Tiger Strike, which can give 5k+ ED. 1 point'd, it's definitely not worth it.


That's the shit I was trying to sputter up, but you say it best!


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 Post subject: Re: dClaw and tigerstrike
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:47 pm 

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 2:41 pm
Posts: 232
PureRage-DoD wrote:
the charge is released on the first strike that lands. easy to check it by using the first charge of phoenix strike with dclas (1 release only).

The ed bonus on dclaw is already really good, adding tiger on top of it isn't giving you a huge boost (due to dex and str already providing skill ED%)

better to ignore tiger with a dclaw sin, you can always use it with a 1 point dtail for clearing trash abit faster


And my other HU professor Chimes in to seal the verdict!!


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