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 Post subject: Venom barb question
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:14 am 

Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:22 pm
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I've been trying to think of possible melee builds that still may work well even w/ the phys immunity situation going on. Was thinking about a venom barb. Barb due to the use of two pestilence rw weapons which give (11) to venom each. Along with andy's visage (22) and arachnid belt (6) that starts him at lvl 50 venom 0 skill. He should eventually have 60+ venom. Now my question is, anyone have any idea how much dmg venom is up around lvl 60?
My Poison Zon does 260k/9 secs apx so i guess if it's up around 14.5k per .5 sec it would be about the same and my venom barb may infact work as a build.
with maxed bo, increased stamina, iron skin, shout, frenzy i think i can get away with caster gear loaded with facets/emeralds.

but yeah 60 venom anyone have any clue of the dmg for it?


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 Post subject: Re: Venom barb question
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:17 am 
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No idea, but I think the phys part of the strike has to get through. So if the boss is phys immune the venom would never take effect.


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 Post subject: Re: Venom barb question
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:18 am 

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The main thing with venom is having % poison skill damage because it adds damage twice when using venom.

Also applying it frequently enough so that you actually do make use of the damage, I believe only whirlwind is capable.


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 Post subject: Re: Venom barb question
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:28 am 

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venom's duration is .5 secs which means 2 hits per sec minimally should do it which even concentration can do. So far i beleive my venom barb has damaged physically immune trash via venom but i don't recall for sure. Can anyone verify that this is the case, that venom is not applied when striking physically immune monsters?


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 Post subject: Re: Venom barb question
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:35 am 
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Quote:
Now my question is, anyone have any idea how much dmg venom is up around lvl 60?
I've tried it last ladder, before reset, made 2x pest, andy face and bramble, damage was +17k with 1200 sec duration. I did it within 20min just to test, I bet extra arach/gloves +2 etc could help. Prebuff and switch to regular gear.


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 Post subject: Re: Venom barb question
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:43 am 

Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:22 pm
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cool thanks. i'll try it out and post later on how it works out if anyone is interested.
i was thinking it'd be nice to switch over to two heavens wills along with immortal flesh belt for a healer/meditating/venom/tank/frenzy barb after the venom buff heh will be fun to try.


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 Post subject: Re: Venom barb question
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:51 am 

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The duration is actually far less due to boss charms.


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 Post subject: Re: Venom barb question
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:54 am 

Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:22 pm
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ahh good point. i'll try it with frenzy first since i'm maxing it for the dr% already and it should be pretty quick. thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Venom barb question
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:57 am 

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oh another question, if i load emeralds into 5 socketed one handed weapons and i equip them both, do they both add to my pierce? or just one does?


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 Post subject: Re: Venom barb question
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:51 am 
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each hand has it's own -res check meaning they will only work for that swing. Ie. 60% pierce in right hand 10% pierce in right hand. Left hand swing has 10% pierce, right hand swing has 60% pierce.

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No idea, but I think the phys part of the strike has to get through. So if the boss is phys immune the venom would never take effect.

no it's just like enchant.

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The duration is actually far less due to boss charms.

no, poison durations are doubled in hell as a base anyway. you need 100% PLR in hell JUST to beat the difficulty penalty. The boss charm just sets the durations to roughly the actual duration listed on the skill.

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 Post subject: Re: Venom barb question
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:15 am 

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no, poison durations are doubled in hell as a base anyway. you need 100% PLR in hell JUST to beat the difficulty penalty. The boss charm just sets the durations to roughly the actual duration listed on the skill.


Makes sense, my 8 second poison jav falls off after ~3 seconds.


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 Post subject: Re: Venom barb question
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:56 am 
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wierd, my poison strike has always lasted its listed duration (roughly).

I've made a lot of venom sins over the years, and blade fury + venom keeps bosses green except for the occasional miss. 75%PLR vs venom = about 3 frames of poison, (they will flash green so fast you would barely see it)

Poison pierce is also used in the hardcoded damage table
(the 5th row along is the pierce stat)
for poison pierce, you have 50010000. These are reversed and in hex. each 2 numbers is 1 byte so 50 01 00 00 becomes 150. 150 hex turned back to decimal is 336 (the stat ID for poison pierce) meaning pierce also lowers poison length reduce.

08000000 24000000 FFFFFFFF FFFFFFFF FFFFFFFF FFFFFFFF 01000000 00000000 01000000 D0C1D16F physical
08000000 10000000 27000000 28000000 4D010000 8E000000 8F000000 02000000 00000000 01000000 C8C1D16F fire
08000000 1C000000 29000000 2A000000 4E010000 90000000 91000000 02000000 00000000 01000000 C0C1D16F lightning
08000000 24000000 2B000000 2C000000 4F010000 94000000 95000000 02000000 00000000 01000000 B8C1D16F cold
08000000 20000000 25000000 26000000 FFFFFFFF 92000000 93000000 02000000 00000000 01000000 B0C1D16F magic
08000000 30000000 2B000000 2C000000 4F010000 FFFFFFFF FFFFFFFF 00000000 00000000 00000000 A8C1D16F cold length
00000000 34000000 2B000000 2C000000 4F010000 FFFFFFFF FFFFFFFF 00000000 00000000 00000000 A0C1D16F fire length
00000000 2C000000 6E000000 FFFFFFFF 50010000 FFFFFFFF FFFFFFFF 00000000 00000000 00000000 98C1D16F poison length
00000000 28000000 2D000000 2E000000 50010000 FFFFFFFF FFFFFFFF 00000000 00000000 01000000 90C1D16F poison
00000000 38000000 FFFFFFFF FFFFFFFF FFFFFFFF FFFFFFFF FFFFFFFF 00000000 01000000 01000000 88C1D16F life steal
08000000 3C000000 FFFFFFFF FFFFFFFF FFFFFFFF FFFFFFFF FFFFFFFF 00000000 01000000 01000000 80C1D16F mana steal
08000000 40000000 FFFFFFFF FFFFFFFF FFFFFFFF FFFFFFFF FFFFFFFF 00000000 01000000 01000000 78C1D16F stamina steal


FFFFFFFF = no stat. to make physical pierce you would just use that column on the physical line take thestat id from itemstatcost.txt, convert it to hex and replace the FFFFFFFF with the hex value (if the stat id was 400 you would enter 90010000 as 400 in hexidecimal is 190). There is a column for each thing there, resist, pierce, absorb%, flat absorb, MDR/PDR applied boolian, max resist, etc. For poison absorb you would change the FFFFFFFF beside the highlighted one to the stat ID of your new poison absorb stat

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 Post subject: Re: Venom barb question
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:25 am 
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yup. adding more absorbs and pdr/mdr checks is 10min job.

6FCBFC7B B832000000 mov eax, 00000032 - Max dr% location
6FCBFD84 83F928 cmp ecx, 00000028 - Max absorb location


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 Post subject: Re: Venom barb question
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:34 pm 
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damage res cap you can increase using the utility plugin options in the dmod.ini
Not sure if the mx res functions clientside and server side, I never tried using the d2mod.ini for max res, I made the changes to d2game.dll and d2client.dll manually before i remembered it was included in the utility plugin.

Do you have any notes on replacing the states code btw? I'm replacing it to create independant cooldowns but theres a hell of alot of stuff required for it.

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 Post subject: Re: Venom barb question
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:43 pm 
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Angel wrote:
Quote:
no, poison durations are doubled in hell as a base anyway. you need 100% PLR in hell JUST to beat the difficulty penalty. The boss charm just sets the durations to roughly the actual duration listed on the skill.


Makes sense, my 8 second poison jav falls off after ~3 seconds.


How does that make sense?
If what PureRage was saying is accurate, your 8 second psn jav would last the full 8 second duration.

I believe that bosses are still getting a reduction in poison length, a ballpark of around a 50% reduction. That corresponds quite well with the boss charm, so I am not sure that PureRage is correct.

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 Post subject: Re: Venom barb question
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:04 pm 

Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:22 pm
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hmm perhaps a .25 sec duration venom ftl :/


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 Post subject: Re: Venom barb question
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:13 pm 
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Frank wrote:
hmm perhaps a .25 sec duration venom ftl :/

for melee attacks, not really. Since you are getting in their face anyways, a short duration means you simply re-apply the poison faster.

Consider a 5 frame attack which is 5 attacks each second or a .2 sec attack:

hit 1: apply poison
hit 2: overwrite psn from hit 1
hit 3: overwrite psn from hit 2
etc, etc

So it really doesn't matter if your duration is .25 seconds or .5 seconds, you are still going to overwrite it with a 5 frame attack. Having a .25 second attack means thatn when you get a little slow you might actually not overwrite your own psn.

Durations are only important for fragile characters that stand back from a monster and apply their damage. The dumbest thing you can do as a psn strike necro is to stand there and repeatedly stab a monster as fast as you can.

Well - actually, it is even dumber to do that with rabies, but I digress.

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 Post subject: Re: Venom barb question
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:43 pm 

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ahh ty sounds good i think i can manage a 5 frame frenzy w/ it being maxed. which i believe is 5 attacks per second.


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 Post subject: Re: Venom barb question
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:07 pm 
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7-8k over .5 seconds without any + pz skill damage


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 Post subject: Re: Venom barb question
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 2:48 pm 

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Well my venom barb is up to 88. Just got on Andy's visage which gives me a 60 venom pre-buff. This amounts to 8,783 - 10,049/.5 sec. (that's with a 10% poison dmg zak ammy). After buffing i switch over to a mix of defensively based and +% poison skill dmg / -% poison res gear. which gives - 70% pois res and +30% poison skill dmg for about a 10-12k/.5 sec venom. which amounts to 20-24k a sec. And for comparison to endgame zon: 180k-216k/ 9 secs. I still have perhaps griffs, templars, facets (If def/hp/dr% etc allows), and other things to equip so i think this will infact be atleast an ok build. Dmg will ofcourse be lost due to not constantly being active. By either missing or from decrepify, holy freeze aura w/e. But i think it'll be enough to get by.

I'll post again after i get more end game gear on.


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 Post subject: Re: Venom barb question
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 4:51 pm 

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zons can hit way more then 180k, mines at 330k over 8.7s but im not sure what u mean by endgame zon. but ya griffs temps w facets will help alot dmg wise


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 Post subject: Re: Venom barb question
PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 1:22 am 
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just run a venom gear setup in your stash. it lasts like 10 minutes, swapping on gear takes you 30 seconds. You don't even have to make a 'venom' barb, just make a normal barb

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 Post subject: Re: Venom barb question
PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 1:54 am 

Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:22 pm
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yeah that's what i've been doing so far, but i switch over to + poison skill dmg and - pois res gear. I think the venom really wouldn't amount to much even at lvl 65 if i didn't have the - enemy poison res. Btw the reason i call it a ''venom barb'''.. is because it's 95% poison dmg 5% physical. A normal barb with venom buff (which is useless in hell imo unless maybe you're a multi-shot zon) is 99% physical 1% poison dmg and can not kill/damage any bosses..

Borgias (my venom barb) is up to 95 now. The dmg is great so far and he stays alive pretty well.

the duration is now over 20 minutes too so not much of a hassle yep.

Also yeah a fully faceted/sharded/charmed poison zon can get up to 300k+ but i prefer to have rubies in my armor for a stronger decoy and more complete character. I brought up a poison zon just to compare the dmg at a longer duration. And infact i do believe a venom barb can reach apx. the same dot.


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 Post subject: Re: Venom barb question
PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:13 am 
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great posts Frank, I am very interested to continue to hear details of this character.

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 Post subject: Re: Venom barb question
PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:44 am 

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so what attack skill do you use? and gear at 95 etc? my decoy pretty much lasts vs any boss and all trash except samy and los anti heroes.

and by lasts i mean lasts long enough so that i can re cast it without problems and im never with out a decoy at a boss fight


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 Post subject: Re: Venom barb question
PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:34 pm 

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Try putting in 4 rubies and using self oak on you zon. See how much easier it is.. It is honestly apples and oranges. I've solo'd sam nicely and still quickly. Without much fear of being 1 shotted. Also on diablo runs or nihl's it's so much easier and still fast.

I've been using a mix of zeal (since it's up to around 6.2 attacks a second, whirlwind for the more congested areas, and frenzy (which is maxed) for the 20 dr% and increased attack speed etc. Ar's been a bit of an issue on bosses but can be fixed with diamond craft gloves and ar charms i think. Trash is currently np because my weaps have ignore targets defense.

The gear i'm using currently:

Flesh render - w/ emerald: -32 enemy poison res, ignores target defense 80% ias
griswald caddy - w/ 5x Tals off hand: 40% increased poison skill dmg.

(combo works well with frenzy buff then zeal untill i can sort out my ar and equip two gris caddy's)

tyreals - w/ 4x wirts (wirts since i don't need alot of strength otherwise, more base vit)
griff - w/ 3x poison facets
topaz craft belt - +20/-20 29 str, 20 fhr
2x carrion wind rings - -20 res (carrion worm and beafy poison creeper)
soul drainers, eventually a diamond craft probably
amethyst craft boots - 13 str
zak ammy - w/ 10% pois

I'd really like to equip the following way, but i don't think the defense/dmg/ar will allow for the big lvl prayer.

Heaven's will - Prayer ftw
Heaven's will - Prayer ftw
Griffs - 3x poison facets
Templars - 4x poison facets
Imm Flesh belt - Prayer ftw
Diamond craft gloves or Soul drainers (if ar allows) - Ar or more prayer
Amethyst craft boots - hopefully high defense, maybe str
zak ammy 10% poison

So i will probably gear more this way:

Gris caddy - 3x tal, 2x uber emeralds +24% -24%
Gris caddy - 3x tal, 2x uber emeralds +24% -24%
(10 perfect poison facets for +30% -30% would be ideal but... ouch , also maybe 5x Emeralds for bosses)
Perfect poison griffs - 3x perfect poison facets (ouch again) +36%/-18%
Tyreals - 4x wirts 20% dr, high defense, cbf etc..
Topaz craft belt - +20/-20
2x carrion rings - -20 res
Zak ammy - +10%
Amethyst craft boots

Venom buff gear is obviously just highest all skill gear/venom 0 skill gear. Max lvl is 65.

With maxed frenzy this gives:
40% dr
W/ maxed iron skin and high lvl shout - lots of defense
Pre-buff - 65 venom
Maxed bo, increased stamina, and low base str (96) - lots of hp's
-82% enemy poison resistance (-88% w/ faceted gris)
+114% poison skill damage (+126% w/ faceted gris)
Sadly there's no room for absorbs but i'll tinker around maybe i can get a little on there. If i can get enough ar for zeal i can use a element specific shield perhaps just for bosses.. we'll see.


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