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 Post subject: Prayer Aura Max Lvl
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:00 pm 
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Is there a maximum level? I was just thinking with a recovery merc with, let's say, lvl 20 Prayer, with 2 rings @lvl 8, plus the player having 2 holy rings as well. This would make for a hefty lvl 52 prayer. Now multiply that by 8! If everyone in the party does this, LVL 416 PRAYER?! That would be fuckin ridiculous. And of course, this is not even considering that a player is a pali with a lvl 90+ prayer... which leads me to wonder whether there is a lvl cap? If not, I donno why more people aren't running with holy craft rings... especially as a non-caster who can take advantage of the +dmg to undead/demons

Thanks

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 Post subject: Re: Prayer Aura Max Lvl
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:09 pm 
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a2 mercs run merc prayer. doesnt stack the same way as regular prayer.
holy craft rings are excellent tho.

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 Post subject: Re: Prayer Aura Max Lvl
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:17 pm 
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The healing between players will stack, the skill lvel between players wont stack.

Ie, you have lvl 16 prayer on equip that heals lets say 50hp. If someone else joins the party with lvl 16 prayer on equip, you wont have level 32 pryer, you will have the healing of 2 level 16 prayers (100 hp)

Note: numbers are for example only.

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 Post subject: Re: Prayer Aura Max Lvl
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:34 pm 
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aaaah I see. So it will just be like 8 lvl 32 prayers, not lvl 240. Cool enough, I don't know why more people dont go for this... I think a team all with prayer rings on them and mercs would be fuckin sweet

EDIT: Thanks for the answers

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 Post subject: Re: Prayer Aura Max Lvl
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:48 pm 
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Quote:
Is there a maximum level?
127


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 Post subject: Re: Prayer Aura Max Lvl
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:51 pm 
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127 is a savage prayer..

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 Post subject: Re: Prayer Aura Max Lvl
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:29 pm 
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slappyNuts wrote:
If not, I donno why more people aren't running with holy craft rings... especially as a non-caster who can take advantage of the +dmg to undead/demons

I am pretty happy with how crafted rings are this ladder season. Lots better than last season where Blood craft rings simply dominated all other options. Now you can go
- holy craft for the sweet prayer boost,
- ele craft for the nice -resists,
- safety for the substantial boost to resists and vitality which helps compensate for the str points you had to spend
- caster/blood for a straight out str bonus with life or mana (your choice)

Deadly crafts and power crafts are a little thin, but still useful to certain builds.

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 Post subject: Re: Prayer Aura Max Lvl
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:08 pm 
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Im in love with holy craft rings... better than blood craft IMO because of all the leach resists... just my personal preference though

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 Post subject: Re: Prayer Aura Max Lvl
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:04 am 
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slappyNuts wrote:
Im in love with holy craft rings... better than blood craft IMO because of all the leach resists... just my personal preference though


Blood Rings are still the top, easily. It just takes more effort for a godly craft now, and you have less leeway on getting a +Str mod.

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 Post subject: Re: Prayer Aura Max Lvl
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:01 pm 
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I love the blood rings because of the +life and regen, however one of the main mods on the blood craft rings is pretty much null (LL) because of all the leach resistances... I'd much rather go for regen > LL because of that, and prayer will regen more than the blood ring.. of course if you need that str then you can hope to roll some boots/gloves with them :). right now on my barb I'm running 1 blood and 1 holy though.. trying to roll another GG +1 barb prayer w/ str & res ring

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 Post subject: Re: Prayer Aura Max Lvl
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 12:47 am 
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slappyNuts wrote:
I love the blood rings because of the +life and regen, however one of the main mods on the blood craft rings is pretty much null (LL) because of all the leach resistances... I'd much rather go for regen > LL because of that, and prayer will regen more than the blood ring.. of course if you need that str then you can hope to roll some boots/gloves with them :). right now on my barb I'm running 1 blood and 1 holy though.. trying to roll another GG +1 barb prayer w/ str & res ring


I don't see how 200+ Life will ever be comparable to a level 6-8 Prayer (~12 Heal tick). Prayer is pretty insignificant, unless very high level & double ran.
Also, while leech doesn't do much to Hell Act Bosses, with enough damage you can easily leech sub-bosses, and of course trash. Such a weak prayer will hardly help against trash, let alone any sort of boss in keeping a 10k+ Life bulb topped off.
For example, my Sin had something like 35k average damage and ~30% life leech. She wouldn't leech much against shit like Diablo or Mephisto, but against Hell Azmodan and Belial, she was leeching a decent amount; enough to negate most of the damage Belial would do unless he spawned with something nasty. Most other sub-bosses in Hell she would be at 100% health while leeching.

Unless there's something I'm missing, I don't see the point in using a Prayer ring, especially on a character that benefits from leech. Each to their own, I guess.

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 Post subject: Re: Prayer Aura Max Lvl
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:58 am 

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Prayer ring is ~12 regen. You can wear two of them which makes them 24 regen. Multiply that by 8 people and you have 192 regen.

Slap that on 8 different mercs and you double it to 384 regen.

Assume that you have 8 restorative act 2 mercs with a meditation amulet.

That's a lot of prayer healing.


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 Post subject: Re: Prayer Aura Max Lvl
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:59 am 
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still less than a fully geared healer and at the cost of 8 players meaning bosses hp is alot higher though.

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 Post subject: Re: Prayer Aura Max Lvl
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:39 pm 
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Angel wrote:
Prayer ring is ~12 regen. You can wear two of them which makes them 24 regen. Multiply that by 8 people and you have 192 regen.

Slap that on 8 different mercs and you double it to 384 regen.

Assume that you have 8 restorative act 2 mercs with a meditation amulet.

That's a lot of prayer healing.


It's also a lot of gimping. You're losing everyone's ring slots to inferior items, and you're assuming that an A2 Merc will be able to survive anything but trash. It's also under the assumption that an 8 Player party is actually good, when the majority of the time anything past 4 is dead weight.

And 384 isn't really that significant outside of trash. My Healer, who has poor gear, heals for *311, *622 if you actually run Prayer (which normally never happens).

Prayer simply isn't that good and people vastly overestimate it's power. It basically keeps you topped off versus trash. It's Holy Bolt + free reign of auras that makes Healers a viable build, not Prayer.

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 Post subject: Re: Prayer Aura Max Lvl
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:51 pm 

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Prayer isn't good for boss fights? I don't know what game you've been playing. I played with a heal barb who made hell D and his three bosses the easiest fights of the game.


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 Post subject: Re: Prayer Aura Max Lvl
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:53 pm 
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Angel wrote:
heal barb

Do tell more! I didn't realize people were making heal barbs

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 Post subject: Re: Prayer Aura Max Lvl
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:15 pm 

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I forget his name, but essentially it was just a heal barb with mass +all skills items running a prayer aura via troll belt and level 40 meditation aura via 2x Heaven's will. Gave the highest level BO I've ever seen, and just afk tanked the bosses that allow you to tank them, where as no one was ever in danger of dying because of the huge BO level and massive heals coming in. I don't remember exactly what we were healing, but I honestly want to say it was like 1k+ heals every tick. We were all sitting over 10k health EASY from the combination of the retarded BO and oak(from a random druid).

But yeah, prayer sucks for bosses.

Edit: He wasn't running lay on hands, so he wasn't heal bolting, but I assume a heal barb could also run that opposed to drainers for a huge heal at 7fpa.


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 Post subject: Re: Prayer Aura Max Lvl
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:50 pm 
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thats an oskill aura with + skills. we are talking about prayer on equip. 2 perf level 8 rings is only 26 health recovered every 2 seconds.

anyway, 1k heal per tick? i doubt it, my old healer was only putting out 1.6k heal per tick fully stacked with level 80 prayer.

I'll do the math real quick:
2 rings for level 8 each, (13 health per ring healed so 26 total) note this heal isn't doubled by medi, the active prayer is the one that works stacks only.

belt =8 prayer,heavens wills = 10 amulet = 2, helm = 3 armor =3 boots = 1 gloves = 2 shards = 5 sammy = 3, anni = 1

level 39 prayer with battle command so 227 heal *2 with medi comes out at 454+26 from rings = 480 hp every 2 seconds. Less than a healers meditation alone with the added drawback of the barbs medi winning and overwriting the more potent heal from a pally.

Pretty nice idea though. very creative.

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 Post subject: Re: Prayer Aura Max Lvl
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:36 pm 

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couldnt u do 2x ironwards for lvl 30? and imortal flesh for lvl 12 or am i wrong in that they stack, then add a medi amulet? or does medi only work from hard points in an active prayer, not from prayer on equip


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 Post subject: Re: Prayer Aura Max Lvl
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:44 pm 
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2 diff sources, on equip and active wont stack.

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 Post subject: Re: Prayer Aura Max Lvl
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:50 pm 

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so would you have a lvl 30 from ironward, then lvl 12 imortalflesh + whatever + all skills as active? then 2x lvl 8 rings for 16 on equip would that combine with the lvl 30 on equip for lvl 46 on equip? then would a medi amulet draw from either of those prayer sources?


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 Post subject: Re: Prayer Aura Max Lvl
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:53 pm 

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I am talking about oskill and +skills because Blue inquired upon it.

I remember your healer from last season, was pretty beast, but this barb I played with outdid your healer in my opinion. Better tank, had imba BO, and healed for similar numbers.

Medi aura, I believe, would only pull from your oskill or base skill. In other words, you have to have an oskill of it or have the skill learned for it to draw from it.


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 Post subject: Re: Prayer Aura Max Lvl
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:59 pm 
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70% less healing per tick isn't similar numbers. like i said a propper healer gets more heal from medi alone than an oskill build can from medi + prayer together. The high gains don't come until level 30ish and a pally is the only char that can get ~80 prayer, its impossible to get level 50 prayer oskill, 30 levels on top of that is 360 more per tick (720 with medi too)
My healer didn't need bo to afk tank stuff ;) neither will any other well geared healer.
If his act 3 light merc can spam CB at hell diab at point blank range and not need a pot, maybe he is healing that much, but I doubt it.

I'm not saying it wont be any good, i'm saying it can't compare to a dedicated prayer pally and won't mix well with a healers medi.

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 Post subject: Re: Prayer Aura Max Lvl
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:54 am 
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Angel wrote:
I don't remember exactly what we were healing, but I honestly want to say it was like 1k+ heals every tick.

But yeah, prayer sucks for bosses.

Edit: He wasn't running lay on hands, so he wasn't heal bolting, but I assume a heal barb could also run that opposed to drainers for a huge heal at 7fpa.


Prayer ticks every ~2 seconds. With good gear, Holy Bolt can hit ~1k per bolt.
Max cast rate for a Paladin is 9 FPA.
Over 2 seconds (the same time as a Prayer tick) you will be healing ~5.5k. That's 550% more than your Prayer is healing.

It's also 1/3 of a respectable 15k life bulb. Your Prayer heals 1/15 of said life bulb in the same time.
This is also while providing an aura much more useful than Prayer.

Prayer's overrated.

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 Post subject: Re: Prayer Aura Max Lvl
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:22 pm 

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I have that healer barb and prayer is at 44 which is +287, but for some reason i heal about 900ish on myself and a little less than that on others. I expected 550-600 healing from stacking with medi. Anything seem weird about that to anyone else?


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 Post subject: Re: Prayer Aura Max Lvl
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:09 pm 

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The life regen from prayer perhaps? Anyone who honestly thinks prayer is overrated hasn't seen a good healer. Keeps whoever is tanking from dying indefinitely and those around you have infinite mana and enough heals to make you pretty much invulnerable to the bosses aoe attacks(not direct hits, but you have a tank for those).

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Over 2 seconds (the same time as a Prayer tick) you will be healing ~5.5k. That's 550% more than your Prayer is healing.


So I don't have the end game values exactly, but I have a mid game(~60) paladin whose values are at: 400 average holy bolt heal, 75 prayer healing value. For the sake of argument we can assume 9fpa holy bolts(even though this isn't the case).

In a party of 8, where healer's auras are most effective, you're healing 150x8=1200 every 2 seconds. 9fpa is 5.4 casts per healing tick, which equates out to ~2k healing through holy bolt. The only other useful aura to run is cleansing, which adds the healing anyways. Res auras are to help bad players who don't have the gear for a fight, or on the first run through the game.

I highly doubt you can hit 80 prayer without skillers. But for the sake of arguement.
20 base
+5 weap
+5 shield
+7 gloves/helm/belt/boots
+4 amu
+2 rings
+3? armor
+1 anni
+2 heart
+3 soul
+5 soulstones
= 57, am I missing anything? I suppose you could skip the soulmancer set for a net
+5 belt
+2 gloves
+3 helm
+1 boots
=61. How do you manage to pull 80+?


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 Post subject: Re: Prayer Aura Max Lvl
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:20 pm 

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+3 for a prayer scepter for heavens will= +8 prayer
helm +1 all +3 def[+4 total] auras crafted very hard to do not sure if possible
+2 belt
+2 rings
+1 boots
+2 gloves
+5 shards
+2 heart
+3 brain
+1 ani
+1 battle command
+3 armor
+5 shield
+4 amulet [seraphs +2/+2
+20 base
62 total i think but ya how do u get 80 lvl base prayer

unless u get 2x +1pally skills + 8 prayer on equip crafted rings
that'd be 80 if they add to base paladin prayer levels
and not sure if the +12 to prayer from immortal flesh gives total +12 to paladin or just other classes


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 Post subject: Re: Prayer Aura Max Lvl
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:31 pm 
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I was thinking of this idea to have everyone with holy rings PLUS a healer with lvl one billion prayer. I would be really interested to see what sort of regen that would put out... Not to mention I'm obsessed with blood craft stuff as well, so I have a ton of regen on boots/helm/gloves/armor..
EDIT: OR, even better a party FULL of healer/foh pallis... would be level gazillion prayer and so much pierce you could run through the game untarnished - thats my thought at least ^^

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 Post subject: Re: Prayer Aura Max Lvl
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:54 pm 
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immortal flesh troll belt gives 5 total to prayer, as oskill to natural class limits it to 3 max.
8 weapon
5 shield
4 helm
3 armor
2 gloves
1 boots
5 belt
4 ammy
2 rings
1 anni
2 heart
5 shards
3 soul of dead
1 battle command
20 base
= 66
im pretty sure lvl 80 prayer was from last patch with the skill charms. so instead of 5 shards, it would have been 19 skillers reaching lvl 80 prayer. only if these items were obtainable last patch. unless im missing something or overlooked an item

@slappynuts prayer doesnt stack between players, they just both run at the same time.


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 Post subject: Re: Prayer Aura Max Lvl
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:15 pm 
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@hflame I realize they don't 'stack' between players, but the party will still benefit from the healing, no?

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 Post subject: Re: Prayer Aura Max Lvl
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:42 pm 

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If I'm reading what PureRage wrote correctly, you gain more healing from higher levels of prayer, meaning that going from level 50 to 58 would net you (example)+40 to healing where as a level 8 prayer would only grant 12 healing.

I did forget battle command and the +3 on the scepter, what helm gives +4?


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 Post subject: Re: Prayer Aura Max Lvl
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:44 pm 
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super lucky caster craft where you get the craft automod of +1 all skills, and roll a +3 defensive aura.

Gonna need either a 4 leaf clover or an asston of Amethysts

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 Post subject: Re: Prayer Aura Max Lvl
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:47 pm 

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Seems like a waste. +1 skills on only your prayer at the cost of a ton of DR, res, and armor.


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 Post subject: Re: Prayer Aura Max Lvl
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 5:35 pm 
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Angel wrote:
In a party of 8, where healer's auras are most effective, you're healing 150x8=1200 every 2 seconds. 9fpa is 5.4 casts per healing tick, which equates out to ~2k healing through holy bolt. The only other useful aura to run is cleansing, which adds the healing anyways. Res auras are to help bad players who don't have the gear for a fight, or on the first run through the game.


Ermm... you realize you just proved my point, no? In this example, Holy Bolt will heal ~1300% more on a single target, which is the most important. In a balanced party (btw, basically every party past 4 players is filled with dead weight), you'll only really be focusing 1 person to heal. You rarely need to focus multiple players with healing, as ranged counters are generally very weak in this mod.

And I'm not sure where you get Resist Auras are useless from... The majority of harder bosses in this game cast Moncurse, which will reduce many players resists below max (unless seriously geared for it). Add that in with the fact very few bosses have dual-elemental threatening attacks, you have tailored auras for many bosses.

And for bosses that don't threaten you, Conviction (~55 pierce) will benefit most parties much more than a measly +75 prayer tick.

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 Post subject: Re: Prayer Aura Max Lvl
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:26 pm 
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@slappynuts yes, all players that run prayer aura will gain said amount of hp from each prayer that has it active.


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 Post subject: Re: Prayer Aura Max Lvl
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:07 pm 

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But this is a team game bro. It's dead weight because of how the counter system works. You're better off just standing there in range and being around to stop him from healing if something does go awry. It's even worse this patch, since in the past, melee chars generally eat all the counters they make and could deal pretty decent damage. No more, however, since they're all pretty much stuck doing no damage.

I disagree, the difference(especially where the paladin is right now) from running prayer+med and conviction+med is boss fights taking far longer. If prayer wasn't run, the heal paladin would literally have to pop mass healing pots in fights, along with everything else that wasn't getting holy bolt trained. When your entire team can throw off attacks because they know a big chunk of healing will come in on them, it increases the damage you deal far more than conviction(specially since most damage comes from poison, not elemental).

Pre-hell, res is pretty easy to come by on any character who has a shield/weapon combination. Once you get into hell it takes a little more tailoring to get into the right values, especially later in hell when you swap out from survivability to damage.


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 Post subject: Re: Prayer Aura Max Lvl
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:17 pm 
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Angel wrote:
I disagree, the difference(especially where the paladin is right now) from running prayer+med and conviction+med is boss fights taking far longer. If prayer wasn't run, the heal paladin would literally have to pop mass healing pots in fights, along with everything else that wasn't getting holy bolt trained. When your entire team can throw off attacks because they know a big chunk of healing will come in on them, it increases the damage you deal far more than conviction(specially since most damage comes from poison, not elemental).


Ermm... I'm not sure where your anecdotal evidence is coming from. I've played a Healer for average major hell boss in the game (outside of Samhein & LoS, but including Hell Baal & all minions), and very rarely did I ever need to use a potion while running Conviction or a Res Aura. Nor did my party ever benefit more from double Prayer over running a more useful aura.

And unless you're single spawning, ganging up on a boss with 8 players rarely increases damage unless your party is somehow incredibly balanced. You bring up the example of poison... Well 1 character out of 8 can play that great boss killing build. What are your other 4 characters doing? (Assuming you have a Necro, Healer, Poison, and 1 more support character already) Certainly not physical damage, which leaves only magic & elemental damage.
Until you have massive amounts of pierce (Geared 95+), an additional -50ish pierce is huge and helps boost elemental builds.

Angel wrote:
Pre-hell, res is pretty easy to come by on any character who has a shield/weapon combination. Once you get into hell it takes a little more tailoring to get into the right values, especially later in hell when you swap out from survivability to damage.


Not many characters are capable of getting great stacked resistance in Hell anymore, where elemental attacks have a chance of killing you (assuming you are LR'd or pierced in another way). So I don't see how stating getting stacked resists is difficult helps your argument that resist auras are for "bad players".

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 Post subject: Re: Prayer Aura Max Lvl
PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:20 pm 

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Example: Diablo. Spams aoe attacks that hit for a significant amount of damage.

Pretty much every character that isn't a bowazon or 2h melee char(aka useless anyways) is going to have enough res.


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 Post subject: Re: Prayer Aura Max Lvl
PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:16 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 5:48 pm
Posts: 1670
Seems like a lvl 60 prayer is viable on a healer... how about on a recovery merc? Does he cap out at lvl 20 then you just feed him +skills?

Also I was wondering, at that high of level, is it better to give him an soj, for example, to reach lvl 21 prayer, or give him a holy craft to get another +6-8 lvl prayer?

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PureRage-DoD wrote:
Cowards die in shame, I ain't afraid to lose a char, it's not like it's important. :lol:


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