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Kicksin skill points,stat points and equipment
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Author:  Striker [ Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Kicksin skill points,stat points and equipment
Hi, I started an assassin, but I'm not certain of her build.

Skill points:
I'd like max these skills:
Tiger strike
Dragon talon
Venom
Fade

One point to:
Death Sentry (at endgame I have +30skills from items and a lvl30 DS' explosion range is 13yard.
Blade Shield (leech and maxed venom gives it good dmg)

I cogitate on Shadow Master and Shadow Warrior

Stat points:
now i have 169str
41dex
any vitality
10energy

I want these items:
Shadowdancer (boots)
2x Eth shadowkiller (assa-wep.)
Veil of Steel or Crown of Ages (helm)
Steelrend (gloves)
Worldstone Granite or Verdugo's Hearty Cord or crafted belt by MS topaz (belt)
War or Tyrael's Might or Steel Carapace (armor)
MS topaz crafted rings with +1 assa skill and good psn and fire dmg (ring)
Mara's (amulet)

Please write your choice
Author:  ElChicken [ Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Kicksin skill points,stat points and equipment
I have a lvl90 kicksin right now...
Few things:
- ShadowMaster is ten times as strong as shadowwarrior. Dont even consider the smaller one. The bigger one is maxed out a fairly capable tank, and in areas full of chargers and other exploding bs a very useful addon. Since he uses dragonflight very often, he is always in place and less of a burden then mercs, whcih can hardly keep up with you.
- Venom: really? It doesnt do anything to your build. You can dish out 250k+ dmg easily with crapgear, if you want to, so venom wont do much. Also venom is only applied when you charge, and to the kicked monster. Not to the explosion that kills everything But you have too many points after tiger, kick, fade, shadowmaster anyway... So you can skill it if you like as last skill
- bosskilling: bosses are PI in hell so you wont do dmg to them at all (no physdmg = no explosion) Venom wont kill any boss in hell, so you are not a bosskiller, end of story - The maintask my sin performs in hell bossfights is to tank. With any HP-Push (against dmgspikes) and a holy bolt once a minute she can tank pretty much everything. (didnt try baal+ yet, but im far away from well geared, so i guess it wont be a problem) With maxed fade you cap out on all res(including physres) easily. Now stick some dmgreduce on her and your blocker is finished. (i have about 150 dualreduce in bossfights now)
- areakilling: your kicks kill everything, that is not PI/FI, when you solo hell or shuttle nm you wont need to charge anymore, you can just kick. There is not much reason to put any dmg/skillgear on, since it doesnt increase your killspeed much, you kill em with one kick anyway. Some -fireres stuff is still useful.
- items in general: for above reasons, you can basically go with defensive items only on helm, armor, belt, gloves and jewellery. Just stack up on %dr, dr, mdr, etc. It makes it much less stressful and you will be invincible in normal areas, and can kick out dmg. Fun times!
- Shadowdancer: this is just a piece of crap NEVER EVER USE THEM!!!! Dont even consider them, they are simply no option. Any crafted (i chose ruby) adamant boots will outperform them easily. Reason is simply the much higher basedmg they have. And basedmg>everything. I tried shadowdancer and my dmg dropped massively in Charscreen and even more vs monster.
Nice sideeffect is, that you can wear those boots very early on. And even better: you can always improve them, it is fun to craft new boots and not just use one shitty item, that everyone has, all the time. You have your own individual boots, noone else has!

Coming back to my sin:
I went with claw shield, and have enough dex for 75% block. ppl always tell me how much it would suck, but i dont care much. Dex contributes hugely to your dmg (much more then for ranged chars, since your dmg is basically only boots+dex+str+charge, since +ED doesnt do shit (cuz you have +4k ed, so it has basically no effect)
Using a firelizard right now as claw, emeraldcrafts on rings and shield. Verdungo belt, and im still sticking to those redemption gloves, they are just handy and keep your mana/life up (mostly due to the after kill life/mana)
Armor and Helmet are not up to date and need upgrades.
For Amu: If you dont need the res from atmas, then it is a piece of junk. (and with fade, you usually dont need em) So i would suggest an atmas. Still +1 skill, and you proc amp very often due to your high speed. And amp = much more physdmg = more explosiodmg = more ownage (you get +50% dmg on your whole explosion when kicking a 50% physres monster, even more vs. those higherphysres ones - atmas is a joke vs this)
Author:  Zikur [ Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Kicksin skill points,stat points and equipment
wouldnt claw block be better than shield block?
Author:  Abominae [ Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Kicksin skill points,stat points and equipment
ElChicken wrote:
Huge post


Dragon Talon =/= Dragon Tail.
Author:  ElChicken [ Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Kicksin skill points,stat points and equipment
@zikur, maybe, but as i said, as Dtailer you dont worry about dmg anyway against mobs, and bosses are immune to you
Advantage of shieldblock is the higher blockrate (75% vs 67/68%, meaning about 25% less hits) and an easy slot to get some more defensive stats.
Nice about clawblock is, that it blocks some kinde of elemental missiles somehow so in areas like chaos sancutary it is very useful. But since the dex is a great contributor to your dmg i didnt feel it would be wasted and somehow like it like it is. But yes, most ppl for sure play with clawblock, i do as well on my other 2 sins, but the dtailer uses shieldblock and i dont regret it.

@Abo
OUPS... i did not even think about someone using DTalon in combination with Tigerstrike... So i assumed it would be DTail. You kick about a 7-10 times, but the bonusdmg from tigerstrike only applies to the first hit. Completly wasted imho. If Dtalon, then use some crafted adamantboots imho, and just kick everything into ground, uncharged. But due to the CB-Nerf this is much less promising nowadays then it was before. Even though you could try to get 6% cb and kick some bosses. But dont think it is enough. If you keep the mousebutton down (reduces the fpa of first kick from your weapon fpa to 3 fpa), you can kick about 11-12 times per second, which would trigger cb on avg every 1,5 secs.
Author:  Abominae [ Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Kicksin skill points,stat points and equipment
I agree, Tstrike is wasted on Dragon Talon.

And yeah, CB Dtalon used to be a very cool build, but it's no longer possible in this patch ;_;
Author:  Zikur [ Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Kicksin skill points,stat points and equipment
if i am understanding what you are saying, claw block caps out at a lower ctb? or just requires more dex ?
Author:  ElChicken [ Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Kicksin skill points,stat points and equipment
clawblock doesnt use dex at all and has reminishing returns on skillpoints...
So for those 100 dexsins it is for sure better then shieldblock. But you wont reach 75% clawblock

Ah, another drawback about clawblock is: you dont block at all, when moving... (shieldblock blocks one third, which is better then nothing)
Author:  Dieu [ Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Kicksin skill points,stat points and equipment
Here are some thoughts
I like to have death sentry skill given by a claw to save those 7 points, even if that means you have to switch weapons and that radius is lower with less +skills it's working well enough for me.(and i'm a chargeless dragon claw sin (bad at thrash, great tank) so death sentry is a main part of my build even if i didnt spend points in it.) Maybe you can save 3 more points and get blade sheild from a claw as well.

Since your main damage is from kick i think that shadowkillers should be non eth. So you dont need 3 zods but 1 for the war.(unless these claws are indestructible and i didnt notice)

Claw block is excellent, doesnt deserve more than 5 points tho, 1 is enough in the opinion of most of the people ive talked to but i dont like to be weak till i get end game gear and 1 pt in block is just not enough till u get massive +skills. It doesnt block while u move so just use dragon flight for your displacements^^

I can't figure out what i'd do with the build you currently have, it sadly seems not viable as dragon talon doesnt really fit with tiger strike =( How many points spent in those 2 skills already?

Max tiger strike, dragon TAIL and fade seems to be the core of kick build atm.

Its a great thrasher but on bosses it's so-so. Well with this being a 60 points build you may ask why im trying to save skill points, here is why: maxing claw mastery is a good option as you need AR to charge up, also raising shadow master is something to consider as it might end up being all you can do on hell bosses if there is no max amp nec present to allow you to hurt them.

Have fun!
Author:  Striker [ Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Kicksin skill points,stat points and equipment
Dieu wrote:
...maxing claw mastery is a good option as you need AR to charge up...


Claw Mastery gains +10% attack rating every points, but Venom too gives +10% attack rating (Claw Mastery synergy)
So, if I put one point to Claw Mastery then + skills from gear I gain +45% critical chance, but if I maxed Claw Mastery i gain only 48% (20 points to Claw Mastery increase critical chance only by 3%)
From Venom I gain enough attack rating.
Author:  Rasta [ Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Kicksin skill points,stat points and equipment
Against bosses, even if a kicksin can tank bosses with a healer, a druid or necro with spiritblade/spiritwolf does that 100 times better and also adds oak/curse to your party

however, doing 300k from the dtail to trash is pretty nice
Author:  Dieu [ Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Kicksin skill points,stat points and equipment
Yeah maybe You should go venom instead of claw mastery but more phys dmg and critical means a bit more leach while charging up and very often another poisoner around is overriding your poison damage. So i'll stick with my opinion, remark that you could max both and not raise shadow also.

That which i am speaking of concerns dragon tail more than dragon talon if you keep your talon build, maybe then venom is a better choice. You're right.
Author:  LockDown [ Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Kicksin skill points,stat points and equipment
ElChicken wrote:
clawblock doesnt use dex at all and has reminishing returns on skillpoints...
So for those 100 dexsins it is for sure better then shieldblock. But you wont reach 75% clawblock

Ah, another drawback about clawblock is: you dont block at all, when moving... (shieldblock blocks one third, which is better then nothing)



Blocks projectiles tho that a shield doesn't such as fireballs and other things.
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