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 Post subject: Whirlwind
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:30 am 
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I haven't ever done much playing with this skill, but I am building one this patch. Other than knowing it is essentially a fast 4 frame attack, I wasn't too aware of the mechanics. Fortunately the Arreat Summit has updated the site with some pretty solid info.

For those who like me were unaware, it goes like this:

You get 2 "free" 4 frame attacks, after that how fast you attack will be determined by your weapon speed and those values seem pretty locked in at:

One-handed weapons
Breakpoints: 15, 10, -10, -34.
Attack Speed: 12, 10, 8, 6, 4

Two-handed weapons
Breakpoints: 15, 0, -10, -30, -60.
Attack Speed: 14, 12, 10, 8, 6, 4

So if I want to hit a 4 frame attack with a 1h weapon, I will need -34, and 4 frame on a 2h weapon will require -60. Speed is determined by taking the base speed of the weapon and subtracting the weapon ias value (oias values are ignored).

So a windhammer which is a [30] item with 80% IAS is a -50 and will hit the 6 frame breakpoint. If you put an uber amethyst in it you will have 110% IAS on the weapon and will thus hit the -80 breakpoint. If you don't want the AR, you could even hit the 4 frame breakpoint with a 20% IAS jewel with %ED on it.

Hitting the 4 frame attack means that you don't have to worry too much about your "dance" to keep the whirlwinds short to capitalize on the two free 4 frames, which works for lazy non-micro crazy gamers like myself.

I also found this tidbit interesting:
"Note: two-handed swords are treated as one-handed weapons for Whirlwind purposes, regardless of the sword being held in one-handed or two-handed mode. The above calculation for Grandfather therefore holds for any way the sword is held"

Which says to me that swords suck nuts for true WW power because you are taking a serious damage loss. *edit* apparently its just a dumb footnote that doesnt' need to be there. Swords are treated differently in WW if you use them 1h or 2h despite what they are saying there.

Also, while I recognize Frenzy is the current popular attack for a lot of barbs, from everything I can see it is a much less damaging attack than whirlwind. For starters, I believe that Frenzy maxes out at 5 frames and it uses 1h weapon values. So you are doing a slower attack with a weaker weapon. Unless I am missing something you are going to have a serious damage loss using that skill.

What I have been doing is using frenzy to proc Amp and then switching to WW. I am thinking now though that I need to put a big hammer on switch though and use Frenzy to proc the amp from Gores, and then switch to my 2h WW setup and WW that boss down.

I know this doesn't get around the Hell bosses physical immunity issue, but for Norm/NM it should be helpful. It also will be handy against any undead boss as you can holy craft armor and go to town and (hopefully) not worry about about that Physical immune stuff.

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 Post subject: Re: Whirlwind
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:12 pm 
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hey Blue,

One thing I would like to point out is that even though having amp proc is great, using frenzy with WW is really not a great idea-
With WW you want to be as slow (frw) as possible. I build WW barbs with lowest frw possible, and with the heaviest armor possible so that I can kill targets easier. If you have insane frw (like after frenzy is up), then you will QUICKLY WW by your target and only have time to hit them maybe once. With a slow frw, you will be able to hit your target multiple times with ease. Likewise, I also skip out on increased speed passive skill. Against mobs you really shouldn't need amp to kill them. Against bosses, then surely you want amp to proc, so frenzy away, then conc/bash/zerk IMO

My question is about being frozen as a WW barb -
Does it affect the attack speed formula that you posted above? or does it simply affect your run/walk speed? If it affects the attack speed, then definitely I want some cbf, but if it only affects the run/walk, then I would always like to be frozen because of reasons stated above:D

EDIT: I wasn't aware about the swords in regards to WW, that sucks, thanks for sharing. Good thing my WW barb is polearm :twisted: . Other thing that is really important for WW (IMO) is the range. I like to use polearms so that I can get the max range (6 I think for cryptic axes). Hitting max range, max IAS, and having a slow walking barb as WW is where its at :D . I'm building a WW titan currently (150 points vit, all rest in str). I know its madness to do such a thing in HC HU, but its exhilarating nonetheless and I will deal some serious dmg later on. With a ton of dr/mdr he seems to tank ok... we'll see about Hell though ><

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Last edited by slappyNuts on Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Whirlwind
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:16 pm 
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ya - I fubar'd and put a point in increase speed and have been regretting it for the most part. Then again, since this guy is also my potion horkin barb, it isn't the end of the world. I am not too concerned about making the most ideal barb.

Concentrate may be the better candidate for proc'n amp though for sure. Especially since the IAS gains you get from frenzy don't carry over to WW.

I am no authority, but I think that the slowdown in IAS makes no impact to your WW speed. A good way to test that is to go to Worldstone castle and let one of those liche's super-freeze you and see what happens then. My guess is that any sort of freeze IAS impact is going to be oIAS and not on wpn IAS. Then again, who knows maybe it is.

*edit*
As for range, I am not sure I am that worried. Against trash, that is what I have my merc/party for. It is only about hitting the big boss fellows with WW that I am interested in, so I don't know that Range will play that big of a role. Unless with a high range wpn you can score 2x hits on big guys like Dury. That would be interesting.

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 Post subject: Re: Whirlwind
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:31 pm 
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Thinking back on it, its really too bad about the WW sword nerf. I was wanting to build a dual sword WW MF/gold barb just cuz of those glittering sun swords... guess I'll have to make him frenzy.

I'll have to test the cold thing a bit then and see. It would be awesome to not have to NEED a piece of gear with cbf on it, sometimes that can be quite the annoyance (although in HU there is much more gear with cbf on it so it's not so bad).

There are a couple reasons I really like the long range for WW-
1. You have a bit of room to be inaccurate with your execution, since if you misclick a bit you will still hit the monster, where if your range was short you may not.
2. When WWing through a boss/mob, you have a chance to hit from further away, but also while on the other side while passing through. This adds to the amount of hits you can get with one WW, compounded by the low frw and ias.

I'm really excited about my p.arm WW barb since there are so many more options to hit 60% ias on your weapon in HU. On B.net the only viable options were BOTD, or a blue cryptic ax of speed with tons of sockets to put jewels in, and I think you could hit it with the tomb reaver too..

By the way, what do you think the best option for merc is for to accompany a WW barb? I have always struggled with this choice... Since I WW aggressively into mobs it seems the mercs try to follow and die, so I've been thinking a5 merc? or a decked out a2 merc? But still they seem to die (I dont have awesome gear for them), so I tend to just run with no merc, as I did on Bnet.. but it gets real lonely at night when there's no party to run with lol.

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 Post subject: Re: Whirlwind
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:37 pm 
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My A3 bone/psn merc is a beast, so I would go with him again. I loaded him up with good +life gear, so that when I BO him he hits around 4k life. I also went with some rares rather than all caster gear to get his resists maxxed out in NM. Due to that, he hardly ever dies. I also use a 4x starstone skull helm on his noggin for super regen. I am tempted to build a 4xskull armor just to really over due it - dunno yet.

Hell may be a different ballgame for him, but I will have to see what I can come up with there, but for now he survives most every boss fight (he lived through Ancients and all of Baal's minions in Norm, but got crushed in Baal's presence)

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 Post subject: Re: Whirlwind
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:26 pm 
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I have a PNB a3 merc on my throw barb and he seriously never dies... it's pretty amazing. Probably due to the bone armor and max res. I just took him to Hell so we'll see how he does now ^^

Sorry to derail a bit, I know this thread is for WW ><

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 Post subject: Re: Whirlwind
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:42 pm 

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Nice thread, not many people know about the swords for WW. I was thinking of making one and now i know swords are BS. Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Whirlwind
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:48 pm 
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Quote:
I also found this tidbit interesting:
"Note: two-handed swords are treated as one-handed weapons for Whirlwind purposes, regardless of the sword being held in one-handed or two-handed mode. The above calculation for Grandfather therefore holds for any way the sword is held"

Which says to me that swords suck nuts for true WW power because you are taking a serious damage loss.
It's used for WW SPEED calculation, damage is right. Ugh!!


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 Post subject: Re: Whirlwind
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:11 pm 
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Hmm - I guess that would kinda make sense, but what a dumb comment for them to put in there. Weapons move at the same speed whether you move them 2h or 1h, so I don't understand why they would need to clarify.

I just assumed they had a valid reason for making the footnote - but perhaps not.

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 Post subject: Re: Whirlwind
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:27 pm 
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Quote:
Weapons move at the same speed whether you move them 2h or 1h, so I don't understand why they would need to clarify.
Because only 2h weapons that can be used as 1h are swords... So they have one WW speed instead of 2 different


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 Post subject: Re: Whirlwind
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:00 pm 
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Exec sword only has 1 speed though. Does not matter if you put it in one hand or two - it is just one line in weapons.txt. So I don't understand the need for a footnote.

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 Post subject: Re: Whirlwind
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:10 pm 
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??? It's added so people don't confuse 2h swords with 2h axes(which can't be used 1handed), ie. some random dude might think he needs 60 ias on 2h to hit max frame but only 40 for 1h. No idea what speed weapon in files has to do it, as it clearly stated that it's for WW calculation, WW works like a spell, obviously uses different value for 1h and 2h weapons.


Last edited by Steel on Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Whirlwind
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:12 pm 
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*shrug*
whatevs. I still think its a dumb footnote.

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 Post subject: Re: Whirlwind
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:44 pm 
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A2 might merc + fana maybe, just gets lots of life,res and leech and you will love the dmg

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 Post subject: Re: Whirlwind
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:12 pm 
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Kruno wrote:
A2 might merc + fana maybe, just gets lots of life,res and leech and you will love the dmg

I would actually like to put a beast on my A3 merc, but I worry he wouldn't cast any spells in wolf form :P

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 Post subject: Re: Whirlwind
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:19 pm 
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should be fine, wolf has casting animations. Only prob may be the restrict column on the caster skills. They ain't bound by the cast delays though so I doubt the restrict columns will effect em.

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 Post subject: Re: Whirlwind
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 4:22 am 
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Mercs and monsters can use any spell as they like, restriction is only for players - for example if you don't believe a5 merc use maul and rabies in human form trololol. A3cold with beast is way to imba on dexzons btw.


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 Post subject: Re: Whirlwind
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:49 pm 
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Steel wrote:
Mercs and monsters can use any spell as they like, restriction is only for players - for example if you don't believe a5 merc use maul and rabies in human form trololol. A3cold with beast is way to imba on dexzons btw.


beast on a3 merc? manly

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 Post subject: Re: Whirlwind
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:44 pm 
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Incidentally, WW is working out pretty solid as a killing. I take out mobs with easy in A3 Kurast even when my ctc decrep or amp doesn't go off. Once it does go off, I am 1 hit killing things.

Pretty much the same using either my higher dmg Djinn slayer, or the higher safety Swordguard.

Djinn Slayer:
4.2k - 8k listed dmg (4 frame attack, 6.25 per sec) 26.25-50k DPS

Swordguard
3k - 5.7k listed dmg (4 frame attack) 18.75-35.6k DPS

This with a barb who isn't terribly well geared. I suspect that around 70K DPS is very easily obtained.

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 Post subject: Re: Whirlwind
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 7:10 pm 
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Barb is in A3 Hell now and still been a lot of fun to play. WW rips through mobs very well, as long as I don't hit a mana burn. THat stops me in my tracks. Been using some mana/life on kill gear which makes an impact.

Dmg is quite good, even better if Amp or Decrep procs. In general 2-3 passes of WW kills most things. Doing "ok" dmg against sub-bosses too, considering that I have 8k life and max resists, so I simply don't die very easily. Summoner was pretty hard mostly because I couldn't leech anything, any where and I had burned a lot of juvs getting to him. Golems were bloody tough.

Dury was easy to tank though - 40k defense probably helped a lot.

Was using StormSpire on him which was wonderful - much better now than it was last season. It is one of the many melee items which got a significant boost and it really shows when you put it to use. I now have a Spirit Seeker on him and that thing is a BRUTE! I am at 25k max dmg with only 1pt in Spear Mastery and far from optimized gear. With Highlords (~20 deadly), gores & nos coil (5% each) and the spear mastery 1 pointed I am just shy of 50% deadly strike which brings my effective DPS up to:

25k max x 6.25 attacks = 156,250
Deadly bonus: 25k x 3.125 = 78,125
Total Damage per Second = 234k

Quite a chunk of change if I can get it amplified by some Amp Damage curse goodness. Not so impressive against a boss with 90-100% physical resistance though :(

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 Post subject: Re: Whirlwind
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:15 am 

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But with 2x 1handed sword there is no bug, so i can reach 12,5 attacks per sec or?


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 Post subject: Re: Whirlwind
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:17 am 
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LeOsTyLe wrote:
But with 2x 1handed sword there is no bug, so i can reach 12,5 attacks per sec or?

I have that very same question.

What is being asked is this. I know with WW there is a weapon check every 4 frames. The question is if you dual wield does it do a wpn check on BOTH weapons? This would allow you to score 2 hits every 4 seconds rather than 1 hit every 4 seconds.

So lets say I have Sword A doing 2000 dmg and Sword B doing 3000 dmg both with enough IAS to hit the last breakpoint. If there is a wpn check on both swords every 4 frames, then I will be doing 2,000 + 3,000 = 5,000 damage every 4 frames, which is essentially saying that I am hitting twice every 4 frames. That means rather than doing 6.25 attacks per second (4fpa), I would be doing 12.5 attack per second (2fpa).

On b.net this might not have been quite that significant as it was fairly hard to hit that last BP with most weapons. On HU though, it is a trivial thing to do with the socket availability.

Incidentally, I have a similar question with Frenzy. While I am aware it is capped at a 5 frame animation (4 attacks per second), is that really doing 2.5fpa because BOTH weapons are striking every 5 frames?

I haven't ever delved in to the mechanics of dual wield, so I don't really know how it all works.

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 Post subject: Re: Whirlwind
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:46 am 
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It could be that WW speed is calculated by 1st weapon(first you put in hand) and damage is just 1st +2nd / 2. But well, just speculation
Quote:
While I am aware it is capped at a 5 frame animation (4 attacks per second), is that really doing 2.5fpa because BOTH weapons are striking every 5 frames
isn't it 5fpa per weapon? So whole frenzy animation would be in fact 10 frames. It seems very slow, compared to zeal fury maul or double throw.


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 Post subject: Re: Whirlwind
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:59 am 
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very good questions Steel - I dunno. I have also had teh feeling that Frenzy is a very slow attack - which is why I have viewed it as a low DPS attack as well. I can't say I have ever really verified that though.

Incidentally, if you try to frenzy with the Beast runeword, would that pick up the fury animation?

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 Post subject: Re: Whirlwind
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:06 pm 
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blue_myriddn wrote:
Incidentally, if you try to frenzy with the Beast runeword, would that pick up the fury animation?


I'm pretty sure the skill will be unusable(red). I remember playing with wolfhowl on bnet and not being able to use conc or bash...only regular attack and feral.

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 Post subject: Re: Whirlwind
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:24 pm 

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FuryCury wrote:
I'm pretty sure the skill will be unusable(red). I remember playing with wolfhowl on bnet and not being able to use conc or bash...only regular attack and feral.


I have a beast on eth polearm for merc, i tried and i can use berserk, concentrate, zeal from charm, no "screams" and i donno about 2 weapon styles but i asume all weapon skills work, but not class skills considered spells.


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 Post subject: Re: Whirlwind
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:16 pm 
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Even if it restriction was removed you wouldn't be able to use it. You can use bows on shift forms and melee with it, you're always melee 1weapon wielder in that form, frenzy checks for 2 weapons. Don't be fooled by monsters, they use what they want in any form, other that forbidden skills that insta kill them xD


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 Post subject: Re: Whirlwind
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:06 pm 
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If your asking us about WW does it mean you are in favor of melee being able to solo a boss (if a boss isn't physical immune I can solo it. unless you make melees all have 1 hp).

BTW frenzy is low dps because it maxes at 5 FPA. Double throw is much stronger for dps, it goes to 3.5 fpa, BUT you run out of ammo fast.

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 Post subject: Re: Whirlwind
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:33 am 

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2 x swords with 4 frames attack does 12 attacks/sec
1 x weapon with 4 frames attack does 6 attacks/sec

Double handed weapons have a base dmg of a one handed weapon X 3
This means : if u have 2 weapons and ur ww dmg is xx to 10k on both weapons u will do 120 k dmg/sec on ww (6X10k +6X10k) = 120 k dmg/sec

If u have dual weapon ur dmg should be 30 k dmg on ww that makes 180k dmg/sec wich is better then dual wielding. Anyway u need huge Attack rating to dont miss those hits. My opinion is dual weapons are better overall for killing trash mobs, but they lack when u target a single boss. The problem is the runeword made it for spears have only 70 ias wich sucks bad on war pike, it should have 75 to 80 ias, for having a 4 frames attack. The only option is the unique war pike ethereal, with zod and some ias jewel, rune, stone.

Weapon ias counts on both weapons for having 4 frames attack on each sword.


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 Post subject: Re: Whirlwind
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:37 am 
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Rasta wrote:
If your asking us about WW does it mean you are in favor of melee being able to solo a boss (if a boss isn't physical immune I can solo it. unless you make melees all have 1 hp).


sick of hearing it, take it to your own thread and just spam that please.

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 Post subject: Re: Whirlwind
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:00 am 

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1 point whirlwind outdamages maxed frenzy.


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 Post subject: Re: Whirlwind
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:43 pm 
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tase wrote:
2 x swords with 4 frames attack does 12 attacks/sec
1 x weapon with 4 frames attack does 6 attacks/sec


This opens up some pretty big options for dual wield WW. Since all I need is a -34 in each weapon, it is really easy to hit that 4 frame breakpoint with a 1h weapon. Zerker axes have a range of 3, speed [0] and 45-82 base dmg. I could dual wield death cleavers and kick out some serious DPS. Or put an Azurewrath in one hand and get the sanctuary benefit without needing Holy armor.

Or for the wealthy - a Judgement runeword hammer would hit the BP too ad give me +10 concentrate to boost.

Whirlwind might just look a LOT more attractive if dual wield allows you a 12 attacks per second.

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 Post subject: Re: Whirlwind
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:52 pm 
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Quote:
2 x swords with 4 frames attack does 12 attacks/sec
1 x weapon with 4 frames attack does 6 attacks/sec
And the 2x lower damage than 2h weapon or while adding it together, it's just the same, hard to notice it really, so I say it's a myth, WW is very hardcored attack, it can't proc ctc so I highly doubt it can use 2 different ias for different weapons in 1st and 2nd hand. It could be tested on single, adding 100% deadly strike on both weapons and count how many times it's applied - there's a red blink in center of mob when deadly is applied. Titan's work.
Quote:
1 point whirlwind outdamages maxed frenzy.
Days before reset Kannli suggested to increase %ed on frenzy, ofc there weren't much time for it so now, maybe someone can put some insight how new frenzy with %dr compares to ww. Should frenzy get more %ed? WW always was the main source of damage on barbs for me ofc. So can frenzy with average gear be compared to ww with average gear?


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 Post subject: Re: Whirlwind
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:01 am 

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frenzy just sucks mate, u cannot even control ur character. If the mods, really care about barbs they should nerf the fast run walck bonus to a lower procent and to add real % ED of the skill.


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 Post subject: Re: Whirlwind
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:20 am 
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if you can't control your char you should be playing something else. the speed bonus was not changed at all, only the duration of the buff.

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 Post subject: Re: Whirlwind
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:35 am 
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well once my chars hit 50frw I just walk. You keep all your def bonuses but general difference between run and walk is 20frw +-.
Edit: I just test it with 60frw. The same A to B route took 5 secs while running and 6 secs while walking


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 Post subject: Re: Whirlwind
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:39 pm 
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the idea behind the speed buff was so you could move at a good speed while walking. since the barb has no shield with frenzy.

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 Post subject: Re: Whirlwind
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:37 am 

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Anyway the berserk sinergy dosent work on ww. It dosent apply.


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 Post subject: Re: Whirlwind
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:39 am 

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PureRage-DoD wrote:
if you can't control your char you should be playing something else. the speed bonus was not changed at all, only the duration of the buff.


I cant control my char so i dont roll a frenzy barb. I had one back in the good old days back in 1.08 and 1.09 versions and i can say as i seen this days partying with a frenzy barb with better items then my own how bad he suck.


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 Post subject: Re: Whirlwind
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:23 pm 
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Barb is getting bigger, so its time to do a little thinking about what to gear him with. I think I understand the dual wield sword vs 1h a bit better and enough to run some DPS calcs.

Option 1: Dual wield Grandfathers w/60%ED jewel
Option 2: Steel Pillar w/60%ED jewel

Will see which one gives me better DPS and then consider other bonuses.

Option 1: each sword hits simultaneously, so I can calculate the per sword dmg and then add them together:

3.0 - 8.2k per sword before skill boosts
4.6 - 12.5k with WW and mastery factored in.
57% deadly + 40% critical strike (mastery) = 74% dmg

Total dmg per sword = 8.k - 21.8k
Total dmg from Option 1 = 16k - 43.5k

Option 2:
5 - 15k before skill boosts
7.4k - 22.1k with WW and mastery factored in.
37% deadly + 40% critical strike (mastery) = 62% dmg

Total dmg from Option 2 = 12k - 36k

Clearly dual wielding Grandfathers is the way to go. The ability to double hit really just shines.

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 Post subject: Re: Whirlwind
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:32 pm 
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critical strike and deadly don't stack that way. They are independent rolls, but the order in which you actually get double damage is dependent in fashion, and of course, only one my actually proc.

your chance with 70/40 should be 70/100*60/100 + 30/100*40/100 +70/100*40/100
i.e. (chance DS*chance no CS) + (chance no DS*chance CS) + (chance DS*chance CS)

so (4200 + 1200 + 2800)/10000 = (54+28)/100 = 82/100 or 82% chance for double damage.

I also have heard rumor (from a pretty reliable source) that if only one source has any effect at all...this was not directly verified by others who are trustworthy to my knowledge though.

for tase: I personally do not like characters without some really good speed boost. Frenzy tards are damn near my favorite. Speedy Gonzales to the rescue!!! They may be a bit underpowered compared to WW's here, but in LoD, they simply are not. I have one there that I don't even remember the last time I used a potion.

Edit, clarification, and a rumor.

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Last edited by kramuti on Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Whirlwind
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:40 pm 
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most appreciated math assist kramuti, will update my post with those numbers

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 Post subject: Re: Whirlwind
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:44 pm 
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blue_myriddn wrote:
most appreciated math assist kramuti, will update my post with those numbers


Glad to be of service. :D
note that i clarified for those that know the terminology, and the rumor...I would be very interested to see someone test the latter.

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 Post subject: Re: Whirlwind
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 6:59 am 

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Only good barb in LoD was a bvc, and none of them were good in pve.


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 Post subject: Re: Whirlwind
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:59 pm 
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I was wondering about that deadly strike stack when I wrote that post, I seemed to recall that dual wield wouldn't stack and it looks like that is the case:

"Sources of Deadly Strike stack except from a weapon which is not being used to inflict that particular blow (only applies to dual wield Assassin and Barbarians"
http://www.diablowiki.com/Deadly_Strike

So that drops the dmg for the dual wield grandfathers down to only 57% deadly strike. Updating the numbers based on that info.

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 Post subject: Re: Whirlwind
PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 11:59 am 
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yes, that should be the case...i honestly overlooked that as well. DS/CS/CB, other procs will only work if said weapon is used. Offhand sources stack the way i was saying though.

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 Post subject: Re: Whirlwind
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:10 am 

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Angel wrote:
Only good barb in LoD was a bvc, and none of them were good in pve.



I had a full str/dex barb, 0.8 valor , +14 max dmg and +3 / 2 str charms and someother godlike items. I raped all the chars at pvp with no exception. At pve with 2x ITH swords, buriza armor and 40 3 20 20 charms i killed the trash as fast as a javazon or a nova sorc. But this was back in the 1.09.

Begining with 1.10 the game fucked up, with all these sinergyes. Some chars got alot of boost like: hammerdins, sorcs, necros. The physical chars remained as in 1.09 in the most cases. So u can call them they suck, but believe me at pvp and im speaking especialy about barbs, they were overpowered. The main problem after 1.10 is the dmg got boosted but the life remained the same. With this move they outbalanced the pvp. U can die 1 shot even if u have 7-8 k life. The OS-skills are some crap also.
They removed life leech in pvp, eth bug, critical strike bug, and introduced some new types of ITH's. In other words physical chars got nerfed.


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 Post subject: Re: Whirlwind
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:20 am 

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Oh boy ith swords. I'm not talking about shitty patches, obviously.
Quote:
U can die 1 shot even if u have 7-8 k life.


Nothing in the game can 1 shot you in 1.10.

Hammerdins did max 17k damage = 3.4k damage hammers = 3 hits.

Most hdins ran around with 14k damage, which is 4 hits.

All sorcs took multiple hits to kill you, fb was ~10-12, bliz was ~5-6, lightning was ~8 hits.

Necros took like 8-10 hits.


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 Post subject: Re: Whirlwind
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:40 am 

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Confirming that in .10 it took 3 hammers for my hdin to kill 8k, thats with stacked res and dr gear hitting ~15kish. Max dmg was 19k not 17 though. The lack of being able to resist magic attacks is what made the necs and hdins op.

There were other bugs that made certain classes op, like the marrows bug, but nowhere near 1 hittable.


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 Post subject: Re: Whirlwind
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:15 am 

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Oh rly ? just think about the 99k dmg of a javazon on melee lightining attack, dunno the name skill. Also the berserk with 2 handed botd could kill you 1 hit. All they did starting with 1.10 is just crap. We had a balanced patch prior to 1.10. All they need it to do was a huge nerf of absorb items (or to lower the percent at pvp) and to lock the chanses to block an attack at a 30-40 % value depending on character class.

The shit goes on On HU servers aswell. We have items for casters with ED/ pierce with great percent. But for physical chars all the Str/dex need it for dealing a great dmg was nerfed. Bring back to game str, dex on items, CB, jewels with max dmg/pierce.

Atm my barb have 23k dmg on ww. It was 32 k 2 weeks ago. Dunno what happend. I tryied to find if there is a topic with the changes made so far during the patch. Couldent find.


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 Post subject: Re: Whirlwind
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:59 am 

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Zerk with 2 hand would 1 hit a necro possibly, but never a 8k life barb. Not that the 2h zerk build was any good either way. We're talking viable builds, not retarded ones.

1.10 is what made d2pvp fun. Previously, it was a fucking sleepfest of right click until someone wins. Zons and barbs, oo big time skill there am I right?


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 Post subject: Re: Whirlwind
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:49 am 

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i had in 1.10 a botd war pike zerker with 30 k dmg. I killed many chars including barbs on hc mode 1 shot.

U need skill in whatever u do. If there is a competion.


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 Post subject: Re: Whirlwind
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 5:29 pm 

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Because telezerking someone with 12-14 frame zerk is actually possible. LOL


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 Post subject: Re: Whirlwind
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:46 pm 
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Toying around with some new weapon options.

Geared up, with 585% ED Steel pillar I am doing 17744 - 53232 with critical/deadly factored in.
Alternatively, with a 475% Pride made in a 15% War Pike, I am looking at 17346-52038,

*edit with updated math*
oops! To make matters worse, I rolled the worse possible %ED on it. So I am only doing 16993 - 50980. BAH!

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 Post subject: Re: Whirlwind
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:38 am 

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Try to get an eth steel pillar. I'le give u one if u ask me :)


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 Post subject: Re: Whirlwind
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 7:23 am 
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tase wrote:
Try to get an eth steel pillar. I'le give u one if u ask me :)

dont have a zod. not likely to have a zod

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