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 Post subject: werebear maul druid
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:29 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:12 pm
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hey... i know the basic... not all about XD!

i max :
maul
lycanthropy
werebear
oak sage
pre-req...

AND XD???.... what should i put by there?... i max feral rage or bear??... or anything else?

thanks men !...

and for the stats ??... what should be good... for force and dex?... some mana point?

thanks for hint and help...

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 Post subject: Re: werebear maul druid
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:18 am 
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dont make any melee chars till the next patch, all melees are garbage atm.

you could try a frostbite druid though

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 Post subject: Re: werebear maul druid
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:48 am 
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Rasta wrote:
dont make any melee chars till the next patch, all melees are garbage atm.

you could try a frostbite druid though


this kind of post helps nobody, if builds ain't being tested by a number of people then the feedback on the build is not acurate. Maybe you can't play a melee but maybe this guy can.

Ps. FYI a maul bear can hit huge numbers damage wise (70k a swing at 3fpa if you focus on damage). Just ask pious, he uses a bear as a "Tank and Spank" LoS boss method

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 Post subject: Re: werebear maul druid
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:45 am 
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Quote:
Ps. FYI a maul bear can hit huge numbers damage wise (70k a swing at 3fpa if you focus on damage).
on norm where monsters have 0 phys res, you forgot to add.
Anyway don't do melee if you can't afford to pay some nec to cast amp, you can keep oak and do better dmg with arctic blast druid, and you'll receive a lot of boost from necs/dins -cold res.


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 Post subject: Re: werebear maul druid
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:57 am 
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even with 90% phys res its still 7k a swing 7 times a sec. I wouldnt turn my nose up at (even if you miss 1 attack in 7) 42k DPS + a tank + oak

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 Post subject: Re: werebear maul druid
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:11 pm 
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Steel wrote:
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Ps. FYI a maul bear can hit huge numbers damage wise (70k a swing at 3fpa if you focus on damage).
on norm where monsters have 0 phys res, you forgot to add.
Anyway don't do melee if you can't afford to pay some nec to cast amp, you can keep oak and do better dmg with arctic blast druid, and you'll receive a lot of boost from necs/dins -cold res.

Lawbringer on switch for fucks sake.


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 Post subject: Re: werebear maul druid
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:44 pm 
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Utter wrote:
Lawbringer on switch for fucks sake.


A flat 25% physical pierce will allow you to "deal" damage, yes. You won't be doing anything significant w/ Decrepify past Normal.

Anyway, I wouldn't be rollin' a melee Druid this patch. Out of all the melee, they probably got hit the hardest.

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 Post subject: Re: werebear maul druid
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:52 pm 
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Quote:
Lawbringer on switch for fucks sake.
would that help on hell? I mean, let's say Diablo has 80%phys res + 50 from his item, how 25% can help with dmg? huh? Chars should be useful on all difficulties so better do ele druid, psn rabies for example, 20 oak, 20 rabies +20synergy, 1 fury and you will do the same phys dmg to bosses as if you were fury dru.
Quote:
even with 90% phys res its still 7k a swing 7 times a sec. I wouldnt turn my nose up at (even if you miss 1 attack in 7) 42k DPS + a tank + oak
90%phys has maybe andy with dec. 42k dps? ofc you didn't mention boss block which is fairly 50%. Diablo phys res is 80% and his uniq item another 50% and you can't get higher amp that 26% other than from necro. Gl with 42k dps.
Edit: ok offtoping about melee in every topic isn't right.


Last edited by Steel on Mon Jan 31, 2011 1:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: werebear maul druid
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:58 pm 
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Steel wrote:
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Lawbringer on switch for fucks sake.
would that help on hell? I mean, let's say Diablo has 80%phys res + 50 from his item, how 25% can help with dmg? huh? Chars should be useful on all difficulties so better do ele druid, psn rabies for example, 20 oak, 20 rabies +20synergy, 1 fury and you will do the same phys dmg to bosses as if you were fury dru.


so everyone should roll rabies now? theres no harm in mixing it up. I agree with abominae that druids were hit hardest with the ds reductions but it don't mean people should just stop playing a melee. What kinda feedback will we get if everyone rolls the same build?

If you don't wanna play melee then thats fine, no reson to put others off though is it?

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 Post subject: Re: werebear maul druid
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:32 pm 

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ok... i think i read noting to help ¬¬... second... rabies are made for werewolf and werebear... wich better?... for maul...??... my question are alway open....

and... i be asimply player... i don't understand nothing in all this DS reduction...??...

why maul should be less powerfull?? rabies are better?

AND MY QUESTION ARE ALWAY OPEN!

and can do ravbies werebear?

....thanks for ... this :)

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 Post subject: Re: werebear maul druid
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 5:02 pm 
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jackblade wrote:
ok... i think i read noting to help ¬¬... second... rabies are made for werewolf and werebear... wich better?... for maul...??... my question are alway open....

and... i be asimply player... i don't understand nothing in all this DS reduction...??...

why maul should be less powerfull?? rabies are better?

AND MY QUESTION ARE ALWAY OPEN!

and can do ravbies werebear?

....thanks for ... this :)


Rabies can be used in either Werebear or Werewolf form. Some people prefer Werebear due to the added Life & greater Defense it gives you, while others will prefer Werewolf as they have much better Faster Hit Recovery breakpoints. (EDIT: Werewolf also has a higher boost to AR than Werebear does.)

The reason Maul Druids got hit harder than some other classes this patch is they have no class source of Critical Strike. Deadly Strike was reduced across the board on items, and it's barely feasible to get 15% in most cases. For example, a level 92 Unique Polearm, Tomb Reaver, used to have 50% Deadly Strike. Now it has none.
Why is this important? 50% Deadly Strike means you will on average do 50% more damage than you would without Deadly Strike. It used to be feasible to get 75%+ Deadly Strike on a Maul Druid, so you can see how your damage has been crippled severely in regards to how it was last patch.

Add in the fact that Maul Druids preform best with a beefy two-hander, you run into a new problem. Resists have been shot all across the board. It is now much harder to obtain max resistance with a Two-Hander. You will require a lot of resist charms and resist orientated gear that other melee can skip over (A Barbarian for example). This also hurts your options for Damage Reduction % gear, as a shield is a great place to get DR from. (DR was also nerfed across the board on most items). In addition, without Block you'll be taking more straight hits to the face that other melee characters can avoid.

To top it off, Amplify Damage & Crushing Blow have both been severely reduced. Fury & Maul Druids used to have a niche in the fact they could not only provide Oak (essential to any balanced party), but also deliver CB very quickly while maintaining a high regular damage output. This was fantastic for bosses that don't cast Iron Maiden as not much was able to match their raw physical damage.

These collective nerfs make the class MUCH less favorable to play as say a Barbarian who also has a party life buff, but has the option of a shield, has Natural Resistance, and Critical Strike given to them.


To compare Maul & Rabies Druids now, there is little contest. Rabies is the clear winner. It deals great damage with relative safety. I've seen Rabies tear up the majority of Hell bosses this ladder with barely breaking a sweat.

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 Post subject: Re: werebear maul druid
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:46 pm 
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There are a few things to keep in mind. On paper, rabies is a VERY low DPS skill compared to Fury. This is difficult for people to understand because it involves math skills.

Take the 200k dmg that a rabies druid does and realize it is over a 7 second time span. In those 7 seconds, even a crappy 4 frame attack druid will have struck the boss about 43 times (6.25 attacks per second x 7 seconds). So if that fury druid is doing 10k dmg, in the same amount of time it took for the rabies druid to deliver 200,000 dmg the fury druid is doing 430,000 damage.

To put it another way, a 200k rabies druid does about 29k damage per second. The 10k fury druid is doing 62.5 damage per second.

Now toss in 75% deadly strike and that druid is able to add an additional 47k dps for a whopping 109k dps. With Amp being the previous curse of choice, physical resists weren't a problem. That is why threads like this: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=205 declared Rabies to be a failure build.

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 Post subject: Re: werebear maul druid
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:47 pm 

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Abominae.... i should thanks much... incredule... i better than this... I UNDERSTAND!... so thanks much... very helpfull... ill surelly continue my maul.... just try... just because i freakin hate all poison type too XD!...

thanks much men... that's all respond tomy answer... thanks men :)

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 Post subject: Re: werebear maul druid
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:54 pm 
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blue_myriddn wrote:
There are a few things to keep in mind. On paper, rabies is a VERY low DPS skill compared to Fury. This is difficult for people to understand because it involves math skills.

Take the 200k dmg that a rabies druid does and realize it is over a 7 second time span. In those 7 seconds, even a crappy 4 frame attack druid will have struck the boss about 43 times (6.25 attacks per second x 7 seconds). So if that fury druid is doing 10k dmg, in the same amount of time it took for the rabies druid to deliver 200,000 dmg the fury druid is doing 430,000 damage.

To put it another way, a 200k rabies druid does about 29k damage per second. The 10k fury druid is doing 62.5 damage per second.

Now toss in 75% deadly strike and that druid is able to add an additional 47k dps for a whopping 109k dps. With Amp being the previous curse of choice, physical resists weren't a problem. That is why threads like this: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=205 declared Rabies to be a failure build.


Ya fury can do TONS of damage, however, in this current build you are useless on relevent bosses.

All act bosses in hell are physical immune, andy's is breakable with 40% amp but even then its like 75+45% and 50% chance to block... you should see hell duriel he will just shit on you. It only gets worse from there.

If you want a viable char make a poison zon or a fire sorc.

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 Post subject: Re: werebear maul druid
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:37 pm 
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blue_myriddn wrote:
There are a few things to keep in mind. On paper, rabies is a VERY low DPS skill compared to Fury. This is difficult for people to understand because it involves math skills.

Take the 200k dmg that a rabies druid does and realize it is over a 7 second time span. In those 7 seconds, even a crappy 4 frame attack druid will have struck the boss about 43 times (6.25 attacks per second x 7 seconds). So if that fury druid is doing 10k dmg, in the same amount of time it took for the rabies druid to deliver 200,000 dmg the fury druid is doing 430,000 damage.

To put it another way, a 200k rabies druid does about 29k damage per second. The 10k fury druid is doing 62.5 damage per second.

Now toss in 75% deadly strike and that druid is able to add an additional 47k dps for a whopping 109k dps. With Amp being the previous curse of choice, physical resists weren't a problem. That is why threads like this: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=205 declared Rabies to be a failure build.


You're not taking into consideration Rabies and other poison builds can get around -100 passive pierce end-game in addition to Lower Resists.
You're also not taking into account that most act bosses have a relatively high blocking chance, effectively cutting your physical damage in half.
Elemental damage will pierce much more than physical damage thanks to passive pierce and how much physical resistance is actually on an act boss.
The fact that bosses don't have poison "absorb" makes poison damage much less mitigated than other types of damage.

You're taking the math at face value, which isn't how damage works in this game. So on paper with accurate mathematics that factor in necessary mitigations, Rabies will still beat Fury.

EDIT: Just for an example I'll use your original numbers of 29k DPS on Rabies, and 109k DPS (Note: This type of Deadly Strike is no longer obtainable) on a Fury Druid.
Let's assume the boss we are speaking of has 90% physical resistance and 90% poison resists. I think we can both agree these aren't unrealistic numbers when talking about Hell Act bosses. Let's also assume the boss has 50% chance to block.
Furthermore, to make it even, we'll compare physical damage assuming a level 20 Amplify Damage curse is active and for poison we'll assume a level 20 Lower Resist curse is active.
We'll assume Rabies has -75 passive poison pierce, a very easy number to obtain. I choose this number as it's simple to obtain through a combination of crafted Elemental Armor, Elemental Belt, a 4 MS Emerald Weapon, and Radament's Sphere Shield. All of these items are relatively easy to acquire in Hell (or NM for that matter).

From the get go, a Fury Druid will miss 50% of his attacks thanks to block. This already cuts his DPS to 54.5k. Amplify Damage will reduce the bosses physical resistance to 40%, this leaves you doing roughly 32.7k DPS.
For further effect, let's take your original 62.5k damage, since Deadly Strike is now incredibly scarce for Druids. With Block and physical resistance, it leaves with you roughly 18.75k DPS.

Now for Rabies, who with Lower Resists & passive pierce has -125 poison pierce. With the bosses aforementioned 90% poison resistance, Rabies is doing roughly 39.15k. This is approximately twice the damage that your Fury Druid with no Deadly Strike will be dealing. The DPS would be even higher if you were to have more pierce, which there is a lot of room for.
It's also fun to note that Rabies will provide much less counters than a Fury Druid and doesn't have to be geared to take face to face hits from a boss.

Of course, this is all mathematical theory craft, which in my opinion isn't a very good way to measure builds. I have however seen what Rabies can do this patch compared to a melee character, and that anecdotal evidence leads me to believe Rabies blows melee out of the water.

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 Post subject: Re: werebear maul druid
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:32 pm 
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exactly how much did Amp change with this patch?

and yes - I did take all of those things in to account. If you notice the thread that I linked over to, *I* was the one arguing that rabies was powerful.

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 Post subject: Re: werebear maul druid
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:39 pm 
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blue_myriddn wrote:
exactly how much did Amp change with this patch?

and yes - I did take all of those things in to account. If you notice the thread that I linked over to, *I* was the one arguing that rabies was powerful.


A level 20 Amplify Damage (hard points) is now 50% physical pierce, the way the skill now progresses, you're looking at ~55% end-game maxed Amplify damage. So you lost roughly 20-35% physical pierce depending on your level of Amplify Damage (much more if you invested no hard points into the current Amplify Damage)

I wasn't responding to the out of date thread you linked to, I was responding to the math you had placed in this thread. The math you did in this thread showed that Fury vastly outclassed Rabies in terms of damage, this obviously isn't true. I felt the need to correct you so people were not confused by reading your post.

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 Post subject: Re: werebear maul druid
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:46 am 
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Quote:
exactly how much did Amp change with this patch?
did enough to stop melee chars doing dmg. Only amp you can get is 26% or 27% even if you use ber or zod rw. You won't see it's a nerf unless you play melee on hell. But seems everyone enjoys that. Realm is filled with meteo sorcs, blizz sorcs, poison necs, cold druids, and CB sorcs, bone necs.


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 Post subject: Re: werebear maul druid
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:36 am 
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Abominae wrote:
Utter wrote:
Lawbringer on switch for fucks sake.


A flat 25% physical pierce will allow you to "deal" damage, yes. You won't be doing anything significant w/ Decrepify past Normal.

Anyway, I wouldn't be rollin' a melee Druid this patch. Out of all the melee, they probably got hit the hardest.

25% phys pierce, slowed and weakened boss. Makes tanking a lot easier.
It has worked well on my barb so far (act 4 nm), aka more than half the game. Sure you won't do much more damage, but you are the tank, and this helps alot.


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 Post subject: Re: werebear maul druid
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 12:20 pm 
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Steel wrote:
Quote:
exactly how much did Amp change with this patch?
did enough to stop melee chars doing dmg. Only amp you can get is 26% or 27% even if you use ber or zod rw. You won't see it's a nerf unless you play melee on hell. But seems everyone enjoys that. Realm is filled with meteo sorcs, blizz sorcs, poison necs, cold druids, and CB sorcs, bone necs.


oh ok so we are still working on the assumption that amp remains a 1 pointer. No wonder melee's stink if they are getting 1 pointed amp...

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 Post subject: Re: werebear maul druid
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 12:56 pm 
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Quote:
No wonder melee's stink if they are getting 1 pointed amp...
Let's say you run with 5 ppl team, 1 melee, 1 nec, hdin and ele dru/fire sorc and that's completely random team as it happens very often on realm. Let's say nec is teeth/spear so he puts 60 into his skills, 7 into every curse, 10 into every summon. Do you really think that he will put more into amp for 1% more pierce every level or go skeles or other summons to help him when game ends and there's no barb to tank. Ofc you can't even think in that way, you think that everyone plays hc with the same team over and over and chitchat before every game what to use. You just can't accept the fact that melee shouldn't depend on amp and now it does.
And don't blame necs they don't amp, if sorcs don't get LR they still do dmg bcos pierce or auras that doesn't collide with others ppl.
It's like back to battlenet when noone plays melee(in PvE) because it's broken even with 100% amp.


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 Post subject: Re: werebear maul druid
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:38 pm 
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again, you go on abit about me not understanding because i always play in a dedicted team. Who told you tht exactly? I've been going through nm picking people up here and there. the only "dedicated" team member i have atm is Utter on his barb. Is that a crime? I'mnot allowed to play with friends now? get a grip man.

10 into every summon on a necro would suck up all his points. stop over exagerating. You only need to 1 point all summons on a bone necro since stuff is dead before it hits the summon wall. as far asbosses go, who is running every summon they have on a major boss? They get instagibbed after all 20 of them hit at the same timeand cause a massive counter spike then you are back to running 1 pointed blades.

nobody said "chitchat" before every game. I said to make a poison build aware that you are going to swap between lr andanother curse if you are playing a necro. I'm pretty sure you can manage that cant you?

I also never said melees should depend on amp. They should however depend on a party (like all builds should) and currently, they do.

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 Post subject: Re: werebear maul druid
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:51 pm 
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Quote:
10 into every summon on a necro would suck up all his points. stop over exagerating. You only need to 1 point all summons
That's what I meant, 10 skill total to summons and mastery :P.
Quote:
I'm pretty sure you can manage that cant you?
Problem isn't with me really. I used my 3 chars for hell duriel, hell meph and hell diablo to provide curses, oak and dmg, I'd love really not to do that again when I want to advance and I know problem isn't with my build.
Quote:
I also never said melees should depend on amp. They should however depend on a party (like all builds should) and currently, they do.
Once phys res is adjusted properly to match all nerfs we will see.


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 Post subject: Re: werebear maul druid
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:02 pm 
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Steel wrote:
Once phys res is adjusted properly to match all nerfs we will see.

We'll see what? Melee characters being on a level playing field with psn characters? Seems like that is what folks want.

I am not sure I see that as a good thing. With one breath people are cursing psn characters and in the next breath they are wanting to bring melee characters to the same level. So what is it -are poison characters the "good" that all other classes should be set to match?

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 Post subject: Re: werebear maul druid
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:12 pm 
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blue_myriddn wrote:
Steel wrote:
Once phys res is adjusted properly to match all nerfs we will see.

We'll see what? Melee characters being on a level playing field with psn characters? Seems like that is what folks want.

I am not sure I see that as a good thing. With one breath people are cursing psn characters and in the next breath they are wanting to bring melee characters to the same level. So what is it -are poison characters the "good" that all other classes should be set to match?


Psn Zon can damage a boss without taking any damage.

Poison necro is a bit more risky, but, he has curses and summons to make up for it and 3x more dmg then psn zon.

They key here is that they can actually damage a boss. Melees cant. why would I ever make a melee over a char that can damage the boss and spam summons and clear trash effectively.

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 Post subject: Re: werebear maul druid
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:27 pm 
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Rasta wrote:
Psn Zon can damage a boss without taking any damage.

By that argument a Blizzard sorc can damage a boss without taking any damage, and yet weren't you the one whining about them?

Rasta wrote:
They key here is that they can actually damage a boss. Melees cant. why would I ever make a melee over a char that can damage the boss and spam summons and clear trash effectively.

Because without a tank, caster classes can't damage bosses as bosses are ramming their fist up their ass.

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 Post subject: Re: werebear maul druid
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:44 pm 

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blue_myriddn wrote:
Steel wrote:
Once phys res is adjusted properly to match all nerfs we will see.

We'll see what? Melee characters being on a level playing field with psn characters? Seems like that is what folks want.

I am not sure I see that as a good thing. With one breath people are cursing psn characters and in the next breath they are wanting to bring melee characters to the same level. So what is it -are poison characters the "good" that all other classes should be set to match?


Seems to me that it's the inherent bonuses that poison characters have like built in tank summons, low boss counters and hit and run style that pushes them over the top in terms of soloing power. I think nerfs to physical damage mods hurt because of melee play style; having to risk being hit (sometimes intentionally so as a tank), chance to block on bosses, having to eat higher boss counters etc. Those effects then ripple outward as you see things like necros catering their curses to elemental chars which further limits the effectiveness of melee.

The poison chars seem to be able to handle bosses much better because of effective recastable tanks and debuffs. Half the fun of playing a char imo is feeling powerful or having something to contribute. With melee damage effectiveness (emphasis on effectiveness, not pure chalkboard math) being lower than caster/poison and at least two classes having built-in tanks (3 if you count druid summons), it just feels less fun to play melee. Other classes can tank bosses and deal damage safely so your role is minimized.

Outside of straight item mod buffs (+cb/ds), giving melee builds (not just classes) more skill buffs could make them more desirable to play. Burying self-buffs or boss debuff skills at the end of a melee tree and requiring hard points seems like a decent way to promote playing that kind of build (no o-skill that can be slapped on an item for other classes). If, say, a fury druid had a skill that maybe added a passive physical pierce or a chance to add large elemental damage that required hard points then that particular melee build would have unique abilities that make you want to play the char.

Melee chars seem to be plagued by the fact that either their ability to tank can be replicated by another class or their damage heavily relies on having another class' ability present (curses). Tanking and healing are fun roles for some people, but I think most enjoying being able to deal damage, especially as a melee char. Being able to grind down chunks of an enemy's health with zeal/fury or using slow, big hits just feels satisfying. I don't think you should need to rely on other classes to get that done at high levels, but rather the other party members help to boost your effectiveness with curses/armors/debuffs etc.

ed: and if skill changes are too much for this point in time, you can still tweak items more to clearly define melee's role as either tank or damage. i.e. change the room tanks have for life/defense gems by giving certain tank-oriented items more sockets and making unique dps-oriented items 0-1 socket so they can't achieve the same sort of life/defense that a tank should be able to. either way, i'd personally prefer seeing melee made more fun to play again rather than nerfs to other classes for the sake of balance.


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 Post subject: Re: werebear maul druid
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 5:46 pm 
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Durance wrote:

ed: and if skill changes are too much for this point in time, you can still tweak items more to clearly define melee's role as either tank or damage. i.e. change the room tanks have for life/defense gems by giving certain tank-oriented items more sockets and making unique dps-oriented items 0-1 socket so they can't achieve the same sort of life/defense that a tank should be able to.



+1 to All Skills
+500% Enhanced Defense
Resist All +50%
Magic Resist +10%
+50% Faster Hit Recovery
Cannot be Frozen
Damage Reduced by 20%
+200 Defense
Increase Maximum Life 10%
Increase Maximum Mana 10%
Socketed (4)

That's Tyrael's

+1 to All Skills
+400% Enhanced Defense
+60% Faster Hit Recovery
Damage Reduced by 15-20% (varies)
Resist All +40%
Regenerate Mana 30%
+200% Enhanced Damage
Replenish Life +30
+50 to Vitality
Damage Reduced by 16-24
Magic Damage Reduced by 16-24

That's Steel Carapace

IMO a much better tank armor yet you look at the bolded mods these are unnecessary and really don't flow with the massive amounts of DR and MDR this could achieve and this should be 4 OS yet Tyrael's gives better defense mods which achieves better tanking and you can throw in 4x Jewels to achieve the same level of dps. You give up nothing on Tyrael's to gain the same amount of tankiness and even more DPS.

Seems to me to be no pure DPS or Tank style armors for melee unless you look at Runewords like War but even that seems to be trying to achieve the best of both worlds. I've played Barbs since this game came out and played several caster orientated mods (ES RV MED) and still made my Barb work as a successful DPS machine. I can't even begin to tell you how much it feels like I'm just being a damage sponge while sinking points into strength to wear my armor to achieve higher defense and losing out on life.

Yet I make a meteor sorc who has 1.8k hp at level 61 and has no problem wearing anything with 5 dex and 10 strength. Better yet she avoids all counters because of the play safe distance I have. I've run 4-5 groups through act 5 waiting for Durance to catch up and never have I needed LR to put a significant chunk of DPS onto a boss they were having trouble killing.

Melee just isn't fun with the current physical resistance of bosses usually melee is high risk high reward now its high risk no reward. Nothing gives you satisfaction like hitting Diablo with your big ass sword that took forever to swing and seeing his HP drop by a good amount not 10-25 hitting the boss by any means but knowing your making a difference is great not just sitting there man I hope I have enough juvies to tank this boss. CB as it was on Vanilla was overpowered with people running Ubers the first two days of ladder because of the cheap sources of CB so that was necessary to cut down on the Smiters dominance but to cut out deadly strike also reaches and hurts Barbs Druids and Zealers really bad. I don't want it to be as strong as poison by a long stretch but to know I'm doing more than keeping aggro off of the rabies druid the poison mancer or the poizon in my party is nice.

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 Post subject: Re: werebear maul druid
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 5:54 am 

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LockDown wrote:
Durance wrote:
10-25 hitting the boss by any means but knowing your making a difference is great not just sitting there man I hope I have enough juvies to tank this boss.

even when I'm overleveled and I've thrown down a bunch of crafted weapons and gear this is how I feel every boss fight. did I hit them? the health isn't going down...oh look at that meteor. now it is. I've dropped my barbs, and as such..my desire to play this mod vs unmodded LoD is rapidly waning.


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 Post subject: Re: werebear maul druid
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:24 pm 
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kurtistheturtle wrote:
even when I'm overleveled and I've thrown down a bunch of crafted weapons and gear this is how I feel every boss fight. did I hit them? the health isn't going down...oh look at that meteor. now it is. I've dropped my barbs, and as such..my desire to play this mod vs unmodded LoD is rapidly waning.


I'll agree with this. I brought a melee character to 95 this ladder, haven't bothered to touch it since. After being dead weight on bosses from A1 Hell to A5 Hell, it's not worth it to play a character that doesn't kill trash nor contribute significantly to a boss fight.

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 Post subject: Re: werebear maul druid
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:34 pm 
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yep - sounds like you two are better off playing psn characters or casters.

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 Post subject: Re: werebear maul druid
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:48 pm 

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There were four people that posted similar experiences so who are you talking about?

Lockdown and I have played both poison and melee characters and are trying to suggest legitimate solutions to a problem that is apparently recognized by a large number of posters on the forums. Seems rather cavalier to say we shouldn't play a character that can't damage bosses rather than give feedback on our suggestions.


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 Post subject: Re: werebear maul druid
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:01 pm 
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I also never said I wanted my melees to be like Superman I want them to tank phenomenally well BETTER THAN A DECOY OR SPIRIT BLADES. Or If I choose to not go the tank route and invest some strength and dexterity to actually deal some damage I don't want it both ways. I just don't want to be hitting bosses with a wet noodle after investing 100 base str to wear said wet noodle.

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 Post subject: Re: werebear maul druid
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:00 pm 
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Durance wrote:
Seems to me that it's the inherent bonuses that poison characters have like built in tank summons, low boss counters and hit and run style that pushes them over the top in terms of soloing power.

Agreed - I believe that tackling the summoners for necromancers is the most viable path to balancing them. Anything else takes away from the fun of the build. Seems simple enough to synergize blades with other skills to require more than 20pts for a perma-tank

Durance wrote:
I think nerfs to physical damage mods hurt because of melee play style; having to risk being hit (sometimes intentionally so as a tank), chance to block on bosses, having to eat higher boss counters etc. Those effects then ripple outward as you see things like necros catering their curses to elemental chars which further limits the effectiveness of melee.

I don't. The nerfs made no impact on that. These things should be adjusted, but that wasn't within the scope of this patch. As far as curse choice, LR is currently popular so elemental characters are benefitting at the moment. If Amp was used instead, casters would suffer and melee would do better. Its just the swing of a pendulum and nothing can be done to force players to choose how they play.

Durance wrote:
Half the fun of playing a char imo is feeling powerful or having something to contribute.

Poison characters aside - because they are known to be unbalanced - melee characters have plenty to contribute. If you aren't seeing that, then perhaps you are simply blinded to the "damage is everything" mentality - which is why I suggest you play a damage oriented character instead of a tank oriented character.

Durance wrote:
Melee chars seem to be plagued by the fact that either their ability to tank can be replicated by another class or their damage heavily relies on having another class' ability present (curses).

It isn't just melee that relies on other classes. In a TEAM based mod, all classes (except broken ones) will rely on another class in order to be effective.

Durance wrote:
Tanking and healing are fun roles for some people, but I think most enjoying being able to deal damage, especially as a melee char. Being able to grind down chunks of an enemy's health with zeal/fury or using slow, big hits just feels satisfying. I don't think you should need to rely on other classes to get that done at high levels, but rather the other party members help to boost your effectiveness with curses/armors/debuffs etc.

Sadly, that just isn't the way it works in this mod. You can do significant damage on your own to everything BUT Quest bosses. That is "ok" in my book. Should the invisible physical immunities be tweaked? yes. Is it an all
damaging catastrophe? Not really. Will it be changed if Soulmancer lets me do another balance patch? Most definitely. That will involve a ladder reset though.

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 Post subject: Re: werebear maul druid
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:21 pm 
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Quote:
Sadly, that just isn't the way it works in this mod. You can do significant damage on your own to everything BUT Quest bosses.
Aka 95% of game.
Quote:
It isn't just melee that relies on other classes. In a TEAM based mod, all classes (except broken ones) will rely on another class in order to be effective.
That's an invalid point. Now melee requires 31+% amp vs meph/diablo(80%phys res and 50%uniq item) and 51% amp to do 1% of his dmg to baal(99%phys +50%uniq item), meaning if nec doesn't put more than 1 then bye bye melee. And barbs can be easily switched for cta/ele druids with maxed oak/spirit blades.
Quote:
Is it an all
damaging catastrophe? Not really.
:D
Quote:
Will it be changed if Soulmancer lets me do another balance patch? Most definitely. That will involve a ladder reset though.
Laugh of history, I said few days before reset to boost amp somehow as it'd destroy melee. Better reset it soon that play caster mod. Anyway wasn't rabies dru boosted by 33% last 1.21Z patch w/o reset? Why not lower phys res on bosses or boost amp w/o reset.
Quote:
As far as curse choice, LR is currently popular so elemental characters are benefitting at the moment. If Amp was used instead, casters would suffer and melee would do better.
That's uber invalid point. Casters don't need LR to do dmg/be effective, it's just boost their dmg and in rare occasions breaks immuns, but not on act bosses. Melee w/o amp 30% (it's like 40lvl from soft points) is trash.


Last edited by Steel on Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: werebear maul druid
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:23 pm 

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blue_myriddn wrote:
I don't. The nerfs made no impact on that. These things should be adjusted, but that wasn't within the scope of this patch. As far as curse choice, LR is currently popular so elemental characters are benefitting at the moment. If Amp was used instead, casters would suffer and melee would do better. Its just the swing of a pendulum and nothing can be done to force players to choose how they play.


It's the exact opposite. Necros don't base their builds around curses, they pick one that will compliment their damage. Since poison is the highest effective damage build (and all builds can benefit from blades equally), you see more of those types. I posted in another thread that it might be worthwhile to have amp be a synergy for other necro skills so that they have a reason to invest in it even if they're poison.

Perhaps using amp to synergize blades would kill two birds with one stone; without the synergy the blades aren't strong enough to tank all bosses and if you sink points there then when you're in a group with melee the necro already has the higher pierce available. That would also mean you have to choose between a pure damage dealer with lr or investing in a tank/melee supporter (not that doing so would severly cripple their psn damage)

blue_myriddn wrote:
Poison characters aside - because they are known to be unbalanced - melee characters have plenty to contribute. If you aren't seeing that, then perhaps you are simply blinded to the "damage is everything" mentality - which is why I suggest you play a damage oriented character instead of a tank oriented character.


That's why I also suggested a change to melee-oriented gear to more clearly define those roles. You should be able to choose to dps as a barb or melee druid if you're willing to sacrifice defense stats for higher damage. Defining a whole class as tank-oriented limits people's play selections if they don't like ranged or spell caster and in fact some skills like berserk or fury are supposed to be damage-oriented. Berserk: "A powerful but reckless attack". Buffing certain mods on melee gear like magic damage on high str armors would allow berserk barbs to do more damage output and the cost of defensive stats and the high str requirement won't allowed other magic chars to use that gear.

blue_myriddn wrote:
It isn't just melee that relies on other classes. In a TEAM based mod, all classes (except broken ones) will rely on another class in order to be effective.


The difference is some melee, it appears, require other class' skills in order to progress throughout the game (amp + andy as the current example being discussed) whereas zons or sorcs are able to kite without tanks and tackle bosses that way. It's not the poizons or necros are the model to which the mod should be balanced, but allowing melee chars to do more damage with a dps-oriented gear/skill set doesn't mean that they'll be come solo master. Being able to dps as melee (at the cost of defensive stats) is a big plus to available playstyles.

Thanks for the replies.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:49 pm 
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I think we should just nerf hell act bosses disgusting physical resistance while also lowering leech effectiveness.

Or add melee pierce to zeal, frenzy, fury and jab. Like 1% phys pierce per hard point, forcing you to invest more points into frenzy over increase stamina.

Finally, amp damage. I honestly don't know how you would balance this skill, it breaks the mod. It forces a melee to have an item that casts it, it forces an entire class to rely on a single skill to be any use at all, the reason is that bosses have fucking stupid physical resistances that nothing breaks or pierces, compare to elemental resistances which you can stack pierce on.

Either remove Amp and decrepify from the game completely and remove some monster phys resistances (99+50% hell baal? fuck really?).

Or you can Amp a slight boost so that you can actually damage a boss in combination with -20% physical pierce from maxed frenzy or zeal or something.

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 Post subject: Re: werebear maul druid
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:57 pm 
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would changing battlecry/how/one of din aura to stack with curses and do the same what amp does (lr + conv can coop noprob) be something game breaking?, also they could share THE same state meaning it amp + battlecry wouldn't stack to -100 pierce, but you could run battlecry and lr together.
Quote:
Or add melee pierce to zeal, frenzy, fury and jab. Like 1% phys pierce per hard point, forcing you to invest more points into frenzy over increase stamina.
Pierce would work only after phys was lowered to 99% by amp, still requires nec with 30% amp.
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(99+50% hell baal? fuck really?).
Sorry, double checked, he's 90% +50%.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:10 pm 
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Steel wrote:
would changing battlecry/how/one of din aura to stack with curses and do the same what amp does (lr + conv can coop noprob) be something game breaking?, also they could share THE same state meaning it amp + battlecry wouldn't stack to -100 pierce, but you could run battlecry and lr together.
Quote:
Or add melee pierce to zeal, frenzy, fury and jab. Like 1% phys pierce per hard point, forcing you to invest more points into frenzy over increase stamina.
Pierce would work only after phys was lowered to 99% by amp, still requires nec with 30% amp.
Quote:
(99+50% hell baal? fuck really?).
Sorry, double checked, he's 90% +50%.


I think the issue here is that we are too afraid to have god-melees running around that can solo everything, but that is the mechanics and the appeal of Diablo 2. Diablo 2 wants you to feel strong and be able to rise up to challenges, but not impossible ones. HU tries to change that but it's kind of hard.

I think adding a quickfix patch and buff amp/nerf boss phys resist, would be nice to just see what happens. If my barb solos hell meph or something then that might be too much, but doing 0 damage and not being able to break it with atmas scarab will not show us anything other then 'don't make melee they suck donkeyballs'

If melees are too strong we can slowly take measures to balance it. Without CB we do significantly less damage, so with just pure melee dmg maybe could compare to poison and meteor.

Also take into consideration how many areas melees suck at. Anywhere with obvlivion knights, any undead+poison areas, anywhere with gigantic mobs like tundra, the list goes on. Isn't a melee supposed to be good at taking down 1 monster and not a thousand?

Also battlecry counts as a curse, so you cant stack it. Just a heads up for anyone who doesn't know what battlecry is, its a barb skill similar to the weakness curse on necros, its good vs jugger like bosses who hit hard.

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 Post subject: Re: werebear maul druid
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:31 pm 
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Also battlecry counts as a curse, so you cant stack it.
You can change that so it'd stack :-).
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I think the issue here is that we are too afraid to have god-melees running around that can solo everything, but that is the mechanics and the appeal of Diablo 2.
+1.
Quote:
I think adding a quickfix patch and buff amp/nerf boss phys resist, would be nice to just see what happens.
Barbs can't be any worse than now so +1.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:02 pm 
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Steel wrote:
Quote:
Also battlecry counts as a curse, so you cant stack it.
You can change that so it'd stack :-).
Quote:
I think the issue here is that we are too afraid to have god-melees running around that can solo everything, but that is the mechanics and the appeal of Diablo 2.
+1.
Quote:
I think adding a quickfix patch and buff amp/nerf boss phys resist, would be nice to just see what happens.
Barbs can't be any worse than now so +1.


Honestly it doesn't matter for me, by the time any sort of change comes I will have stopped playing again.

Just putting this out there, this mod will die if you keep it unbalanced for too long.

it's poison zons galore now GG.

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 Post subject: Re: werebear maul druid
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:43 pm 
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2 seasons ago a poison zon was considered complete garbage. there has been no change to the build but now its OP...

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blue_myriddn wrote:
yep - sounds like you two are better off playing psn characters or casters.


zzz. Coming from the guy who hasn't played a melee character to Hell this patch.

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Abominae wrote:
blue_myriddn wrote:
yep - sounds like you two are better off playing psn characters or casters.


zzz. Coming from the guy who hasn't played a melee character to Hell this patch.

I don't play as often as others. I only have 1 character in Hell. Just happens that I felt like rolling a sorc this season.

I am moving a barb up through though and so far he has been fun. He tanked Ancients and the Baal quest like a champ (repeatedly) and is breezing through A1 NM. No real surprise there as Norm is pretty darn easy. It is interesting that so far damage has been a zero issue despite little to no investment in damage skills - I have simply maxxed inc stam/BO and let my weapons do the talking with 1pt in Frenzy and WW.

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 Post subject: Re: werebear maul druid
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:11 am 
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Quote:
2 seasons ago a poison zon was considered complete garbage. there has been no change to the build but now its OP...

1.21 wrote:
Amazon:

-Elemental Bow/Javalin skills have been buffed, poison benefiting the most
Last ladder I started as a noob with poison to see if it was true and it was. And it's not OP, it's still low dmg, requires a lot of strategy, planing and some sort of tanking unless you're fully geared up, which is ok. Took about 25min to kill hell diablo for the first time this ladder, seems not so OP, ye?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:06 am 
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PureRage-DoD wrote:
2 seasons ago a poison zon was considered complete garbage. there has been no change to the build but now its OP...


I saw someone solo hell samhein in under an hour.

We did an abyss run after, it took 30 minutes.
29 minutes of clearing the way, 1 minute of killing asmodan and belial.

Face it, the patch isn't balanced.

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oh you mean like my healer used to do in 20 mins with no lifebuffs and no potions required? Azmo and belial are a joke, they do little to no damage and you can get there in no time even as a melee just using holy armor.

Also, LMAO at the 2 posts above. One is kinda proving the other wrong. What one of you is lying I wonder and why would you even bother?

Rasta if you are talking about a caster class that has full endgame gear and all charms then lol!

I'm not saying poison isn't the main force at the min. What I'm saying is, every post you make is the same, even when it hasnothing to do with the topic. "get a meteor sorc and poison necro to do it in no time" if you say it again you might start to turn into a meteor sorc or poison nec, shit.

@ Steel: what are you talking about, it requires a tank? you have decoy that pretty much never dies and you can deal the damage of rabies but from a distance, does it get any better then that?

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 Post subject: Re: werebear maul druid
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:19 am 
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What one of you is lying I wonder and why would you even bother?
I don't get this part... What? fyi last ladder I started with psn zon, I had 0 dudes on flist, I played pub only to switch priv, my psn zon never made past 95lvl but she was in my self made team to LoS/Baal/Samhain many times so I got little experience with her, I dunno how other guys are playing her and I don't care really, I wasn't commenting anything more than your comment that psn zon wasn't changed for 2 ladders, uh. I'm liar ok.
Quote:
Steel: what are you talking about, it requires a tank? you have decoy that pretty much never dies and you can deal the damage of rabies but from a distance, does it get any better then that?
Yes, Maybe I'm not Utter and sometimes I felt like I could use some tanking, for example in a3 durance/travi or river of flame - dodge lock with poor hp and I was dead. And Yeah, it's not topic about poison zons and how to play with them, believe me I know how, even if it means nothing as I play SC.
BTW. Yes I know Rasta from realm, I played with him maybe 10 leo runs and one crystal passage nm game total 1hour, so don't even try to say we're saying the same things. I don't know anyone here tbh.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:50 am 
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i never said you were a liar, however, taking 25 mins to kill hell diablo and taking 1 min to kill azmodan and belial are 2 conflicting statements. If it's not you that is talking shit then it must be rasta over exagerating again.

just because you choose to play sc don't make you any worse of a player than anyone else. I actually take everything on board that you say (usually), i may not always agree with you but I can respect the fact that you know what you are talking about.

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 Post subject: Re: werebear maul druid
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:59 am 
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Quote:
i never said you were a liar, however, taking 25 mins to kill hell diablo and taking 1 min to kill azmodan and belial are 2 conflicting statements. If it's not you that is talking shit then it must be rasta over exagerating again.
There's a big gap between Diablo and samhain. Once you hit a5 hell you can get every top item easier and faster than from seals, so w/o lr and only 67k psn(yes) it took 25min of running in circles. And it was 2nd hell D on realm, Samhain is usually taken down with 170k psn from tstroke, griff, templars and more pierce. We both didn't lie.


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 Post subject: Re: werebear maul druid
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 11:05 am 
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Steel wrote:
it took 25min of running in circles.

That sounds incredibly boring!
I can't imagine having the patience to do this - but I suppose if that is more fun for people that getting a party together, that's what it is.

I don't see how nerfing poison will change it either. if you are willing to spend 25 minutes running in circles, then you would probably be willing to spend 35 minutes running around in circles. or 45 minutes...

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 Post subject: Re: werebear maul druid
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 11:23 am 

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blue_myriddn wrote:
Steel wrote:
it took 25min of running in circles.

That sounds incredibly boring!
I can't imagine having the patience to do this - but I suppose if that is more fun for people that getting a party together, that's what it is.

I don't see how nerfing poison will change it either. if you are willing to spend 25 minutes running in circles, then you would probably be willing to spend 35 minutes running around in circles. or 45 minutes...


Perhaps an effective change to casters' soloing power would be to alter their ability to kite bosses. I was doing ancients on a poizon yesterday and it was quite obvious that even with laying down decoy (which they mostly ignored) they were much harder to kite than diablo or juggs. Cast delay is one reason why; diablo's usually busy spamming fire and light while remaining stationary so it's easier for ranged chars to get a bead on him and stack elemental damage. It might also be beneficial to include more immobilization effects to bosses such as cold, slows target by x, stun, etc. Another option is to reduce the number of spells in a bosses arsenal in favor of more melee attacks.

Melee chars, especially tank-oriented builds, have a much easier time dealing with those occurrences since they're usually stacking more dr/defense/fhr so it makes sense that their effective damage output shouldn't be as great as a ranged/caster unit since they can survive the beating from a boss longer than other chars.


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 Post subject: Re: werebear maul druid
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 11:39 am 
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Steel wrote:
Yes, Maybe I'm not Utter and sometimes I felt like I could use some tanking, for example in a3 durance/travi or river of flame - dodge lock with poor hp and I was dead. And Yeah, it's not topic about poison zons and how to play with them, believe me I know how, even if it means nothing as I play SC.

Huh? How did I get involved here? :D


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 Post subject: Re: werebear maul druid
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 11:45 am 
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200k+ jav damage with around 100 pierce. Any non-psn immune boss is a joke, with the exception of ancients and jugger cuz they can chase u down.

Of course you all play melee so you don't know this, since ur busy doing 0 damage.

This just shatters the whole 'you can't solo bosses' philosophy.

Players will always find a way to do shit you make them not able to do, because your restricting us. Your forcing a game like diablo 2 to be played like WoW when it isn't. Of course it will end up unbalanced.

If we just revert shit back to the way it was, maybe keep antirush and the new items, the patch would have been fine. You are all just mad that you can't play in softcoreland like you do in hardcoreland and keep pushing 'teamwork' on us.

I don't want to team up with some fat greasy nerd.

btw my posts are getting angrier and angrier, my bad about that, im just pissed off at putting time into a char and then realizing the community who wanted all these changes killed the mod and im wasting my time.

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 Post subject: Re: werebear maul druid
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 11:57 am 
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Quote:
That sounds incredibly boring!
I can't imagine having the patience to do this - but I suppose if that is more fun for people that getting a party together, that's what it is.
It was 5ppl(comment about going priv was about early last ladder) game and only I was doing dmg, don't ask why. And after that I was ultra exhausted.
Quote:
Huh? How did I get involved here?
I remember everyone who said something psn zon being lame got responded with "see Utter's psn zon" or something like that. Nothing personal or picky


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 Post subject: Re: werebear maul druid
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:14 pm 
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Steel wrote:
Quote:
That sounds incredibly boring!
I can't imagine having the patience to do this - but I suppose if that is more fun for people that getting a party together, that's what it is.
It was 5ppl(comment about going priv was about early last ladder) game and only I was doing dmg, don't ask why. And after that I was ultra exhausted.



I get tired dragging just Durance along how'd you do it!

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 Post subject: Re: werebear maul druid
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:18 pm 

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Rasta wrote:
200k+ jav damage with around 100 pierce. Any non-psn immune boss is a joke, with the exception of ancients and jugger cuz they can chase u down.

Of course you all play melee so you don't know this, since ur busy doing 0 damage.

This just shatters the whole 'you can't solo bosses' philosophy.

Players will always find a way to do shit you make them not able to do, because your restricting us. Your forcing a game like diablo 2 to be played like WoW when it isn't. Of course it will end up unbalanced.

If we just revert shit back to the way it was, maybe keep antirush and the new items, the patch would have been fine. You are all just mad that you can't play in softcoreland like you do in hardcoreland and keep pushing 'teamwork' on us.

I don't want to team up with some fat greasy nerd.

btw my posts are getting angrier and angrier, my bad about that, im just pissed off at putting time into a char and then realizing the community who wanted all these changes killed the mod and im wasting my time.


co-sign haha

Unless we're able to crank out patches and hotfixes like wow does in order to ensure balance, it's best to keep the formula of everyone being able to deal damage in their own way (ranged/caster/melee), but ramp up the difficulty of certain areas/bosses. You don't need designated class roles, enrage timers, and required # of people to make a challenge fun.


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 Post subject: Re: werebear maul druid
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:24 pm 
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Durance wrote:
co-sign haha

Unless we're able to crank out patches and hotfixes like wow does in order to ensure balance, it's best to keep the formula of everyone being able to deal damage in their own way (ranged/caster/melee), but ramp up the difficulty of certain areas/bosses. You don't need designated class roles, enrage timers, and required # of people to make a challenge fun.



and nobody like's WoW nerds.

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 Post subject: Re: werebear maul druid
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 4:37 pm 
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Steel wrote:
Quote:
Huh? How did I get involved here?
I remember everyone who said something psn zon being lame got responded with "see Utter's psn zon" or something like that. Nothing personal or picky

Hehe, yea probably since I had one of the only psn zons last season. Probably the most pimped out in the end aswell. I made some posts about it in the suggestion thread where I said they could get a small buff early without beeing op, but end game dmg should be toned down.

She was taking out hell baal in a min or two in the end.

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=2419

Guessing this one is mine from last season (Relay posted in the patch suggestion section).
Quote:
Lvl 99 Psn Javelin Zon
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
3608 hp without buffs
-95% psn pierce (emeralded Thunderstrokes + facetted Templars)
73% to psn damage
11 Javelin Skillers + heart + anni
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lvl 50 Plague Javelin: 272k-274k over 8.7 seconds
Lvl 50 Poison Javelin: 119k-120k over 6.0 seconds
Lvl 50 Disease Spray: 119k-120k over 6.0 seconds

Lvl 42 Decoy: 420% of own Life
Lvl 42 Valk: 11200 Life

Lvl 23 Dodge and Avoid: 67% chance
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Disease Spray seems abit weak compared to Poison/Plague Javelin for the fact that u gotta get into close range.




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 Post subject: Re: werebear maul druid
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:37 pm 
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Utter wrote:
Hehe, yea probably since I had one of the only psn zons last season. Probably the most pimped out in the end aswell.

Actually you weren't one of the only psn zon's last season, and you certainly wasn't the top psn zon in last season's ladder either, what lvl did you say you reached? lvl 99 was it? My psn zon was lvl 101, I just never bothered posting my build. As for "most pimped out" I can't comment on that because I rly don't know what items you used. :P

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 Post subject: Re: werebear maul druid
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:56 pm 
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Hehe, yea probably since I had one of the only psn zons last season. Probably the most pimped out in the end aswell.


I missed the part whare he said it was the highest level though. 101 means nothing btw, you get the last stuff at 99.

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 Post subject: Re: werebear maul druid
PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 6:09 am 
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Already maxed oak/lyc/maul/ maxing werebear, what should I max after that? Grizzly or HoW(In case I'd roll with good ele druid)? How about weapon? For trash ofc as I'm already at point where stone skin boss can't be killed with atma. Prolly won't get him past a2 hell but in theory, get more str or vita? Vita is 210 and haven't put any point since normal. Items:
Corpsemourn
Jalals with 3 ms diamonds
Highlord
Nos belt
Waterwalks(cbf ftw)
2x dru rings with 7%+ll, res
Blood craft gloves.


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 Post subject: Re: werebear maul druid
PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 2:01 pm 
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Fox1409 wrote:
Utter wrote:
Hehe, yea probably since I had one of the only psn zons last season. Probably the most pimped out in the end aswell.

Actually you weren't one of the only psn zon's last season, and you certainly wasn't the top psn zon in last season's ladder either, what lvl did you say you reached? lvl 99 was it? My psn zon was lvl 101, I just never bothered posting my build. As for "most pimped out" I can't comment on that because I rly don't know what items you used. :P

Reading comprehension aint your forte is it?
So you were 101, well congrats. You enjoy grinding useless runs in a5 hell.
Never said I was the top zon, I said I was one of the only. There certainly wasn't alot of them.
And as of pimped out. Well she was filled with skillers and used the gear that gave the most dmg.


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