Asteroth wrote:
Now i see the same bs again with there not needed wait here lets see lets bring 4 cubes full of pots or have a healer hammerdin in you group now what makes more sence.
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| Value of healers http://forum.arimyth.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=280 |
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| Author: | PureRage-DoD [ Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Value of healers |
yeh if you have no buffs then a healer is a welcome addition, the only problem is they dont help much against the big high damage hits like the ancients etc. I usualy have a few chars with buffs and a few without, that way i can play whatever is needed in any given group. though in random groups i usualy end up using the lifebuff builds. |
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| Author: | Asteroth [ Fri Sep 18, 2009 3:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Baal Quest Poll |
I voted for the last one i'm never for leaching or rushing never was. And the bs about a healer have you ever played with a good one dod mine kills just fine and takes down many boss's . My 3 person group barb druid pally. To comment alittle more for some laughs there was a 8 player group that couldn't kill nm Dury and had to call in a plus lvl 90 to do the job :/ |
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| Author: | PureRage-DoD [ Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Baal Quest Poll |
erm? did I say they cant kill anything? I said you dont NEED a healer to get past any quest. You obviously have some sand in your vadge from what, 6 months ago? you came out with this crap last season too when someone said PRAYER cant kill anything. Then you come out with "my HEALER can kill just fine actually". when nobody said anything about the build not being able to kill. Get a grip. So you don't miss it again Quote: you also should never need a healer for any quest. Point me to whare I said they cant kill anything. Just a quote will do. |
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| Author: | Asteroth [ Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Baal Quest Poll |
Really i had many fights over the shit with you and others for 2 seasons now on how healers can't kill and are not needed. And what started the hole Bs was me saying the Purity Rw was op.And i guess i'm a dick cuz i'm backing up a great party char plus great boss killer.Now i see the same bs again with there not needed wait here lets see lets bring 4 cubes full of pots or have a healer hammerdin in you group now what makes more sence. Just a reminder you want a balanced game Dod but bitch about the rabies drood being fubar cuz you don't have your ring anymore as your crutch. Now thats what makes me laugh cuz you make no sence at all. |
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| Author: | drrod [ Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Baal Quest Poll |
Asteroth wrote: Now i see the same bs again with there not needed wait here lets see lets bring 4 cubes full of pots or have a healer hammerdin in you group now what makes more sence.
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| Author: | LmT [ Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Baal Quest Poll |
drrod wrote: Asteroth wrote: Now i see the same bs again with there not needed wait here lets see lets bring 4 cubes full of pots or have a healer hammerdin in you group now what makes more sence. What the hell do hammerdins bring to a party other than conviction... |
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| Author: | PureRage-DoD [ Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Baal Quest Poll |
Asteroth wrote: Really i had many fights over the shit with you and others for 2 seasons now on how healers can't kill and are not needed. And what started the hole Bs was me saying the Purity Rw was op.And i guess i'm a dick cuz i'm backing up a great party char plus great boss killer.Now i see the same bs again with there not needed wait here lets see lets bring 4 cubes full of pots or have a healer hammerdin in you group now what makes more sence. Just a reminder you want a balanced game Dod but bitch about the rabies drood being fubar cuz you don't have your ring anymore as your crutch. Now thats what makes me laugh cuz you make no sence at all. oh really? you still don't read i see. I said repeatedly to change the synergie or even make it a 60 point build. Try using your eyes and brain before you start talking shit as usual. I duno what your problem is but ever since you started playing again, EVERY thread you post in has some snide comment directed towards me in it. also every coment is total bullshit and the things you say I believe are 100% wrong as I've stated the opposite many times. Take the dildo out your ass and relax ffs, its getting old. If you want to say I said something then use a direct quote instead of fabricating things I have said. Back to your argument about healers. Holy shit dude. are you actually retarded? since you missed it the first TWO times i`ll post it again. in bold and large friendly letters. You can show it to a friend and maybe they will explain it to you. Quote: you also should never need a healer for any quest. That says nothing about a healer not being able to kill. Seriously is that what you are reading when you look at that? A healer is NOT needed to pass any quest, just like asorc is not needed to pass any quest, just like no single char is needed to pass any quest. That is my point. When he said he couldnt pass the quest coz he had no healer I said a healer is not needed to pass asny quest. Try reading before you respond to this post as you obviously have some form of dyslexia. |
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| Author: | Zikur [ Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Baal Quest Poll |
WTF HEALERS CAN KILL lmao noob Hralers kill shit dude. lmao |
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| Author: | LmT [ Sat Sep 19, 2009 8:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Baal Quest Poll |
Zikur wrote: WTF HEALERS CAN KILL lmao noob Hralers kill shit dude. lmao Meditation + smite. Its a 1pt wonder with CBF/CB gear in your cube |
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| Author: | Kannli [ Sat Sep 19, 2009 11:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Baal Quest Poll |
this thread gone way off topic. |
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| Author: | drrod [ Wed Sep 23, 2009 3:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Value of healers |
The value of healers is very little in my opinion. Not because they are useless, but because there are so much more useful classes for a party. They just bring nothing signifigant to the table. The only time I see them being more useful than most classes is in a large party(think 5-6+). If you're playing a healer in a 4 or less player party you'd probably be more helpful as another class/build. Sure you could smite bosses, but why wouldn't you just use a more useful paladin build for that? If you aren't healing during a act boss fight, then the only time you're going to be able to heal is against trash or sub bosses(where it's not even needed). All a healer does is make it so you can be lazy and not use as many potions. I'd much rather have another source of damage, another tank, another AOE character, another safety character(summons, extra spirit), etc., than a glorified walking potion. Maybe it's from playing in small HC parties too long, but I really think they are mediocre at best. |
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| Author: | blue_myriddn [ Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Value of healers |
I rather enjoyed playing my healer/zealer a few seasons ago. During trash fights, I would either run fanat or conviction to help move things along. I kept some sort of high dmg weapon on switch and would zeal away, not doing a lot of dmg but helping out a bit. If we did run in to a rather nasty unique boss (such as worms in A2), I could go back to full heal aura and get the party back in shape. During bosses though is really where a healer comes in to play and it really only benefits a strong melee tank. When you have that sort of 2 man team, you can have the tank go 100% hitting on the boss. Un-interrupted damage because your healing bolts can let him go toe to toe indefinetly. No stopping to restock juvs or to give yourself a few moments to heal - the tank can just bang away at the boss. Works quite effectively. I don't know if I would do this in Hardcore though as it is suprisingly high risk. The tank can get sort of zombie like smashing away at the boss and if the oak flies in between the tank and the healer (happens ALL the freakin time) a good dmg spike might just end the person's life. I think that it would take some of the edge off of hardcore that you really need to keep your wits sharp to stay alive. In that sense, I would say that a healer is a great softy character. |
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| Author: | Zikur [ Sat Nov 14, 2009 10:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Baal Quest Poll |
LmT wrote: Zikur wrote: WTF HEALERS CAN KILL lmao noob Hralers kill shit dude. lmao Meditation + smite. Its a 1pt wonder with CBF/CB gear in your cube wait like my smiter healer that tanked every act boss in the game? like that? 
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| Author: | PureRage-DoD [ Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Value of healers |
Every paladin is a smiter if they so chose, infact wasting points buffing smite and defiance is a stupid idea since Iron Maiden will hurt you alot more. My venger tanked every boss with 1 point smite too. Infact he tanked every boss in the game with 5 1 point wonder skills. A paladins skills could stop after puting 1 in each skill and he would be able to tank any boss. Its not the crappy damage bosses do thats a problem, no level of prayer can heal you from the big amp/nado or amp and leap attack that wipes you out before the heal pulse can kick in so you will need to juv anyway. Being reliant on purity is also kinda shitty. You will have a really hard time getting maxed Dr% with that shield, meaning you are already at a disadvantage as a no passive life bonus Tank class. Smite with no fanat is slow as shit, faster smite = less time switching screens to amp = faster dead boss = less damage taken. With a pure damage reduction/sorb setup you should only need 1 row of juvs per act boss, if that. Worth spending 40 points to save 4 juvs per boss? not in my opinion. At least not when 1 point fana will cut the fight time in half or less. What about bosses with slow effect? duriel and de deis come to mind. I know without fanat running on them it was LOL at the speed and 100% better to just run fana and get the fight overwith |
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| Author: | Zikur [ Sun Nov 15, 2009 4:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Value of healers |
CoA and Tyreals have lots of sockets and ez to get dr%, purity is much better than a slow insight, for a while i used the +3 skill dagger with a bunch of bonus attributes and 66% ias iirc, as for amp, thats what SoB is for. Now that smite is a static speed (is this tested because weapons still seem to effect the speed client side last i checkd) the build would suffer greatly. I play on two screen so amp is usually autocasting or smite is, one or the other. I never said it was the best build, but I never had a problem maxing synergies, while if done over again I might max fanat over smite, I didn't want another aura that was always going to be strictly better than prayer. Another comment on duriel is that he is likely the easiest boss for a paladin to tank in the game, his damage is physical and his ar isnt amazing 75% ctb > duriel. Again in no way is it the best build, but it worked perfectly for the style of play I was using that ladder, as all those chars in that screen, I am controlling. So a tank that needs little attention is key, on a sidenote bonecages are the devil. |
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| Author: | PureRage-DoD [ Sun Nov 15, 2009 11:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Value of healers |
i never had a problem controlling multi windows on a paladin even on the same computer, so I have to stop attacking to amp and recast oak then back to smite again. smite only gains speed from fana and BoS now so if you dont have a nec running faith your at a crappy speed. I did smite often with no fanat but once i switched to fana the speed the bosses would drop at was so much faster I was better off runing fana untill our nec got faith. You can get max dr by puting runes into coa sure then you have less life than you could have along with maxed dr. personal preferance i guess as both work fine. Since i play hc i much prefer higher life along with max dr% than lower life and saving a few rejuv potions while killing bosses slower than I could. On another note, I'm actualy building a healer just for comedy value. It is possibly the most boring char i have ever played though. i maxed prayer and holy bolt, got 1 in every aura fana/convic (that is really really helping the sorc i've been running with kill stuff at an amazing pace. I just spent around 20 mins fighting nm meph just healing the barb and having the druid cast amp with a charges wand and the sorc destroy the cages. I ran fanat for the fight to help the barbs ar and speed to let him land more crushing blows. I ended up clicking on the barb and moving off screen to autoshoot while i watched tv and drank tea. Kinda took the fun outa the whole fight but thats just my opinion i guess. |
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| Author: | Utter [ Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Value of healers |
One tip is make him a foher, gives you something to do. I actually enjoyed mine a few ladders ago. |
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| Author: | PureRage-DoD [ Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Value of healers |
I've so far been boosting holy shield abit, and adding to FoH a little just for novelty more than anything else. I was thinking that I would just max foh too, at least i`ll have some offensive use in the lake of the dead, sewers etc. |
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| Author: | Zikur [ Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Value of healers |
having a purity as your shield has nothing to do with the speed at which you can kill a boss, I fail to see the correlation. When I ran it, smite was boosted by weapon speed, it was quite fast with said weapon. If anything you lack the sorb from dscale, but that can be situational and if there was an instance you would survive better with dscale because of the sorb, then its an obv adjustment. Who said I have 'trouble' controlling them, if I have to micro 4 - 5 chars, I prefer it to be the least difficult I can make it. As for the boring arguement, who said they were fun? Also I would say meph is one of the most challenging bosses to solo in that way, however two screens can help see the cages you wouldnt on other screens faster, and easier to use alt mouse to kill em, tho its unfortunate when he swaps targets and starting boning my team. Another note, nowhere did I say you need to run prayer the entire fight, or at all really.tho prayer for a few secs to recov some life with potions isn't the worst thing in the world. overall the healer is a utility that I used for most ladders. Makes getting wps ez with vigor farming ez with dmg auras for the ggpwn a1 mercs, ele chars trash everything with conviction, all the while acting as a glorified walking potion. |
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| Author: | PureRage-DoD [ Thu Nov 19, 2009 12:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Value of healers |
i wasnt refering to the speed you can kill a boss dependiong on the shield, but way to get snippy. I was refering to the fact that you cant use the better shields to nulify damage to practicaly nothing so the big hits that prayer has no impact on, dont sting at all. I never said you had any trouble switching chars mid fight. I was saying that with my paly, I could switch windows and let any boss pound away at him for a decent amount of time without dealing any notable damage, much like you were doing but relying on the heal from prayer since i had a pure damage negation setup. I'm not really sure why you felt the need to jump on the defensive though 
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| Author: | Zikur [ Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Value of healers |
I meantioned that in a situation where the extra sorb would help you can easily switch shields PureRage-DoD wrote: Since i play hc i much prefer higher life along with max dr% than lower life and saving a few rejuv potions while killing bosses slower than I could. PureRage-DoD wrote: way to get snippy PureRage-DoD wrote: I'm not really sure why you felt the need to jump on the defensive though I also don't see what difference there is between a set up i'd been talking about and a 'pure damage negation' stacked dr%? or about the absorb? I also think its important to point out that purity is much easier to come by than dscale. I also think smite heal can play easier than other smite builds untwinked, since it can rely on the heal, or only tank part time and switch roles. This thread is about the value of healers, and I am making my point that they are more than just click lock the barb and drink tea. |
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| Author: | PureRage-DoD [ Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Value of healers |
It's not just dscale, zaka is nice around the same level as purity and its cheaper too. since it has dr% on it already. Purity is indeed a nice shield, Im using one on my healer atm with 6 prayer. Let me put it another way. I found a melee setup with 5 1 point wonder skills more effective against bosses than a healer. Mephisto is a bad example as he is no threat anyway. the small hits are worthless and you can completely negate those hits. a big hit of 10k from the ancients will make mince meat of your prayer and 10k from the leaper is easily dealt in nm. You could have pure dr% and takeless than 5k from that hit (that could end your char) if you are running another aura and relying on single heal from the medi on equip then you have cut your regen in half (pretty worthless to anyone tanking a heavy damage single hit) The only thing usefull against those big hits is holy bolt, and you cant bolt yourself. I could easily change my equip and charms to a melee setup and do alot better against boses than I could with my heal setup. making the heal setup useless on bosses. 1 last point is that you will want def auras skillers on a healer. that lowers your life as you could be hitting 30k+ life with an inv of live charms instead. recovering 10k life from a juv every few mins is better than recovering 400-500 life every 2 seconds with a much smaller health bulb. Edit: Tbh its more about personal preferance, you found it usefull on bosses, I fine it less usefull than any other paladin build. Sc and Hc builds do differ in usefullness as they are two completely differant playstyles. as an example, hybrid builds are less usefull on hc as there is alot less soloing going on. People tend to dedicate the equip and stat layout to one particular field in order to help the party out more. On sc you can hybrid alot easier as a death is not such a big deal. Hybrids do work on hc but they are are often overshadowed by dedicated builds and end up specialising in 1 field instead of being a jack of all trades. Since you play your own party its probs more useful to you. I dont find playing alone much fun though and prefer to play with groups as thats whare i get my fun from. There was talk of you starting a hc char a while back, has that been put on the back burner now? I'm still up for starting a fresh team if you decide you want to give it a go |
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| Author: | Zikur [ Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Value of healers |
again my point is the versatility. I am in no way saying my healer was the end all of tankage, but he was certainly enough to handle this game. With the best possible gear I have no doubt he could have handled samhein as well. Points about charms is not entirely relevant because you wouldnt have a full inv by a4 hell and I have never got more than 6 skill charms of any one kind before. As I played through the only pally shield I saw was the lvl 40 one and the 60 much much later. I used a rare +2 pally shield for most of the game. On anothre note its not hard to see why aftermath mod removed rejuv's. Cube of purples and cb winsevery boss fight. I know it can be done wiht much less juvs but to the extreme you really cant lose with that many juv's. I think I can say that hybrid healers are better than healers, and my healer was much stronger overall than any hammer/foh healer. As for gear the only changes for healing other players is maybe rings gloves/boots to mancers and mostly set, its not going to be as high as it could be, but the survivability from tyreals + coa covers it. As for a hc char I'd still like to make one, I responded in your thread a while back. I havent been online for months my sc team stayed in normal after the ruined baal run and I never cared to try again. I might still make a hc char, im just not sure when. I also get bored of chars easily, which is one of the reasons I run my own party. I ofcourse dont always play alone, and I enjoy playing 2-3 chars even as clearing trash getting wps, always throws people. What chars are you looking to start in the near future/already have and perhaps I'll make something to compliment that. |
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| Author: | PureRage-DoD [ Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Value of healers |
not sure what i have in mind tbh, my least played class this ladder is either the barb or zon but theres not many variations i care for out of those 2 classes tbh. I could be in for geting my sanctuary zealer up and running, maybe a trapsin or wwsin, anything really. I could do with rebuilding my paladin I think as i been missing him recently. Maybe an axe barb. Happy enough to make a tank class though if you wanna get something up and running to farm abit |
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| Author: | Zikur [ Sat Nov 21, 2009 7:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Value of healers |
hmmm perhaps ill make a sorc then, or a psn blade necro. |
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