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 Post subject: Golem necro build help
PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:23 pm 

Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:23 pm
Posts: 13
I have a 38 golem necro which has been a lot of fun but I'm not sure which skill to max next. This is what I have so far

1 in a couple of curses
max golem mastery
1 all golems
1 spirit blade
1 death knight (awesome summon)
1 skele mastery

I heard spirit blade isn't really worth maxing but would like to hear more opinions and the same with death knight. I'm also unsure about which golems to max other than force, maybe iron? Any criticism is welcome

Also are there any common tricks that I might be unaware of for a summoner? For example a merc that really shines with summons or a way to get some nice auras for my minions at a lower level.

Thanks for reading and thanks for making such a fun albeit frustrating mod :D


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 Post subject: Re: Golem necro build help
PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 1:17 am 
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At this point, I suggest you dump the rest of your points into Amplify Damage or Lower Resist. They are absolutely balls without hard points now.

Summon Mancer took at hard hit with the CE nerf, so basically curse bitching is your only option for extra points. I'd say max Golem Mast, Iron Golem, Blades, then the curse of your preference (Amp or LR) to be the most useful for your team. w/o A1 phys mercs and corpse explosion, you sure aint doin' shit for yourself as a summonancer nowadays.

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 Post subject: Re: Golem necro build help
PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 2:38 pm 
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Location: Vancouver, BC
Tundravalco wrote:
Also are there any common tricks that I might be unaware of for a summoner? For example a merc that really shines with summons or a way to get some nice auras for my minions at a lower level.
For golems, Golem Mastery gives +15%HP per level, while a point in the golem itself gives +30%HP. If you do max a golem then it's life will be noticeably larger, but so will it's mana cost. Just about every summon in HU gains 2%res per level capped at 66%, this doesn't include the absorbs that the golems have to their specified element (Monster absorb works as just a resistance which can't be lowered, there is no life added like with Player absorbs (Soulmancer tested this long ago when he gave absorbs >50% to act bosses)). In NM and Hell Difficulties, the base life of all summons is improved by 50% and 100% respectively, and their base damage is improved as well (probably by the same values). Unfortunately, this means that Clay Golem is never that useful except for it's slow feature because in Hell it is only as strong as Force Golem was in Norm. Flesh Golem can be alright when it can leach, but it's probably not the best placement of skills.

Spirit Blade is a decent summon, especially since it's mana cost is relatively low, and their cool-down is just one second, making them ideal for tanking bosses. However, if you're just using them for tanking bosses then they only need 1 HP, since just about any hit from an act boss will kill one regardless of it's level. If you do choose to max these, then know that their damage only gets relatively high after level 28, before then their damage is about 1/4 to 1/2 of a Golem or Death Knight. Since they do magic damage, you won't need to worry about Amp or LRes as much, since neither affects magic resistance.

If you want to max summon skills, then I'd go with DeathKnight, ForceGolem or IronGolem, and perhaps SpiritBlades (depending on whether I have the gear to boost them to high levels since I view them as an all-or-nothing summon).

Amplify Damage around 33% should be effective enough for most situations. Using Amp to break an immunity was never useful (the creature would still be resisting 95% of the damage), so at 30% you can consider Amp to cap monster resistance at about 66% (Phys builds do 1/3 of their listed damage). Here's a table to show how 100 damage is affected by enemy resistance, and how Amp of different levels will effectively boost your damage (the damage is first resisted, then the monster has it's resistance reduced by Amp, then the damage is calculated for the lowered resistance, and the improvement in damage is given as an Enhanced Damage %):
Code:
Dmg0: 100   100   100  100  100  100  100  100
Res1:  99    99    50   50   50   30   30   30
Dmg1:   1     1    50   50   50   70   70   70
Amp :  40    55    33   40   55   33   40   55
Res2:  59    44    17   10   -5   -3  -10  -25
Dmg2:  41    56    83   90  105  103  110  125
+ED%: 4100  5600   66   80  110   47   57   78
These numbers should illustrate that while having a very high Amp is nice, it's not that big a deal (you're spending skill points to increase your golem's kill speeds by about the % given). LowerResistance Curse is a different matter though, since it's main purpose is to break immunities, and 55% should break most of them.

If kill-speed is your goal, then there are better ways to do it. As Abominae implied, CorpseExplosion is very effective. Corpse Explosion will kill all trash-creatures in it's radius after casting it 2 to 4 times. However, as more players enter the game, this number gets increased to around 10 to 20 at 8 players. CExplosion was recently changed to double the mana cost, and a 1-second cast delay was introduced. The delay might be problematic for you since it will prevent casting CE for the 10 seconds after a golem has been cast (they have a 10 second cool-down).

For a merc, consider A3 Lightning or fire. These mercs reduce enemy lit res by 10% with their aura (used to be 20%, but I assume this was reduced along with the Paladin's HolyAuras), making 55% LowerRes less important. Unlike cold A1 or A3 mercs, lightning or fire mercs will leave corpses for you to use CE on. Unlike A1 mercs, A3 mercs are a more potent source of non-physical damage. I didn't recommend a tanking merc (A2 and A5) since you probably don't need additional tanks, and those mercs generally do physical damage.

Auras generally don't benefit summons much, since an aura like Might will only boost their base damage (just like points in the summon themselves, or their Mastery). For example, 20 point Golem and 20 point GMastery nets about +2400%ED, while a Might aura of 300%ED (level 18) would boost this to 2700%, not 9600%.


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 Post subject: Re: Golem necro build help
PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 5:50 pm 
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Quote:
CExplosion was recently changed to double the mana cost, and a 1-second cast delay was introduced.


Maybe this isn't the right post to do this, but...
Why was the 1 second delay still added when it was discussed more than once that it would be one or the other of these, with a slight damage reduction?

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 Post subject: Re: Golem necro build help
PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 7:28 pm 
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kramuti wrote:
Quote:
CExplosion was recently changed to double the mana cost, and a 1-second cast delay was introduced.


Maybe this isn't the right post to do this, but...
Why was the 1 second delay still added when it was discussed more than once that it would be one or the other of these, with a slight damage reduction?


simple answer, I forgot.

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 Post subject: Re: Golem necro build help
PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 7:43 pm 

Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:23 pm
Posts: 13
Wow, really high quality post Brevan <3. I think I have all the information I need from that. I'm curious about how CE works because when I installed the game it was a ton of mana with a cooldown and everything but a few days ago its mana cost got cut in half and I can spam it as fast as I want. Even though I can cast it quickly it seems that only 1/5th or so actually work so maybe my client is bugged or something. Any thoughts on why that could be and how I could fix it?


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 Post subject: Re: Golem necro build help
PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 8:23 pm 
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Location: Vancouver, BC
You're correct that it's a client-side issue, and that the server is only listening to about 1 out of 3 casts.

Probable cause is that you have a Data Folder in your HU folder, along with the command arguments "-direct -txt" in your "Hell Unleashed.bat" file.

Fix by either deleting the "-direct -txt" part of the .bat file (this will cause the mod to reference only the .mpq file), or by deleting the Data folder (the mod will not find the Data folder, and should fall back to the .mpq file).


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 Post subject: Re: Golem necro build help
PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 9:35 pm 

Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:23 pm
Posts: 13
Brevan wrote:
You're correct that it's a client-side issue, and that the server is only listening to about 1 out of 3 casts.

Probable cause is that you have a Data Folder in your HU folder, along with the command arguments "-direct -txt" in your "Hell Unleashed.bat" file.

Fix by either deleting the "-direct -txt" part of the .bat file (this will cause the mod to reference only the .mpq file), or by deleting the Data folder (the mod will not find the Data folder, and should fall back to the .mpq file).


Yup that was it thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Golem necro build help
PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 1:26 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:01 pm
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PureRage-DoD wrote:
kramuti wrote:
Quote:
CExplosion was recently changed to double the mana cost, and a 1-second cast delay was introduced.


Maybe this isn't the right post to do this, but...
Why was the 1 second delay still added when it was discussed more than once that it would be one or the other of these, with a slight damage reduction?


simple answer, I forgot.


I am a fan of simple answers.

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