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 Post subject: Trash Monster HP and Damage
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:29 am 
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Attached is a .pdf (.zip since pdf isn't attachable) containing 9 graphs (scatter plots). I used the monstats.txt file from PureRage's test-package, along with monlvl.txt from the normal HU package. These include only trash monsters, so no act-bosses (about 200 times regular HP), sub bosses (about 30 times regular HP), or even super-uniques like Rakanishu (about 10 times regular HP). If people want, I can create a set of graphs for those guys too, but they aren't very numerous and I figured people already know their stats.

It's important to point out that I ignored the skills of creatures and any special attacks (like elemental damage added to their regular damage). There are cases where creatures do zero damage in this case (like A5 Imps), so I just didn't include them. There are still about 375 creatures considered in these graphs.

1) Norm Trash HP
- Norm Trash generally has less than 3k life. If you're not 1-hitting trash with attacks that do more than 3k, then you need to lower their resistances.
- After level 45, you'll notice a set of high-HP creatures, these are things like Seige Beasts and Overseers.
2) Norm Trash Damage
- After level 45, you'll notice 8 points of high-damage critters. These are all Suicide Minions (It would appear that their death-damage isn't HP based, it's just relatively big).
- This graph shows why dr/mdr gear is so effective in Norm. Sure you will face ExtraStrong named and Champs that will hurt, but in general trash does less damage than twice its level.
3) Norm Trash Thorns% needed for 1-hit kill
- I had their HP and damage, so had to make this graph. The thorns% is corrected to consider their phys resistance, but generally 10k% thorns is good for all Norm. If creatures had 100% or more phys resistance, I set them to 0%Thorns needed.
- I consider 10k% thorns fairly easy to acheive, since a barb can just dual-wield SuicideBranch wands for 6k% (the other 4k% takes some work, although in HU1.21z you could just skull-up your armor and hat).
4) NM Trash HP
- NM Trash generally has between 2k and 8k life.
- Same cluster of high-HP creatures, but now after level 70.
- I think the high-HP creature at level 64 are the A4 pillars ("Trappedsoul") that have HoWolverine aura.
5) NM Trash Damage
- NM Trash generally does between 40 and 140 damage.
- Same 8 Suicide Minions are seen doing high damage afer level 65.
- DR/MDR are less useful, unless you have EnergyShield. Probably still better for trash than resistances though.
6) NM Trash Thorns% needed for 1-hit kill
- 10k% thorns is still very good, but clearly some trash needs 2-3 hits to take themselves down. These are probably creatures around 50-80% phys res.
7) Hell Trash HP
- Hell Trash generally has between 5k and 15k life.
- This graph shows that in a single-spawn game, you really don't need much more than 10k unresisted damage on your char, since 1 to 3 hits kills just about everything. If you're needing more than 1-3 hits for trash, then find a way to lower their resistance. If they're immune then ignore them, and if you can't then consider a suitable merc.
8) Hell Trash Damage
- No interesting features to point out, the damage is generally between 50 and 250. As I stated above, I'm only considering monster damage in their "A1" attack column, so not their special skills or Elemental Enhancements.
9) Hell Trash Thorns% needed for 1-hit kill
- Actually, this graph had a few points higher than 100k%, but when I took a look they were creatures with more than 95% phys resistance so I ignored them.
- The graph basically tells you that physical resistance of creatures makes Thorns builds less effective, since at 10k% thorns, you'll need to take more than 1 hit to kill most creatures (potions dont drop fast enough to make up for this loss of life). Considering that creatures come in mobs, you often face mobs of creatures needing 3 hits or more for each to go down. Don't forget that the "Thorns" graphs don't really consider the elemental or ranged damage of creatures.
- From the graph, perhaps there should be less emphasis on Thorns in high level gear, and put that emphasis in Norm and NM, where that gear is still effective.
- If anyone's curious, there were 164 out of 374 trash with more than 50% phys res. Since I don't recall seeing almost 40% of Hell creatures with phys immunity, I'm pretty confident that HU doesn't have a global +50%PhysRes in Hell.

If anyone wants to host these graphs as part of their website, they're welcome to do so and change them in any way they want.


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HU Trash HP and Dmg.zip [93.33 KiB]
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 Post subject: Re: Trash Monster HP and Damage
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 2:39 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:02 pm
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Quote:
- If anyone's curious, there were 164 out of 374 trash with more than 50% phys res. Since I don't recall seeing almost 40% of Hell creatures with phys immunity, I'm pretty confident that HU doesn't have a global +50%PhysRes in Hell.
Only archers, some annoying mobs like vipers and monsters you can't leech life don't have 50% phys res, And that's NOT different than on vanilla LoD - Fetish and undeads phys res in 1.13 varries from 0% to 33%.
Good job on hp tables and calculations, but they're for 1-2 ppl game, well I'm sure everyone can multiply up to x5


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 Post subject: Re: Trash Monster HP and Damage
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 6:05 am 
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it should also be noted that the exploding minions in act 5 will not do damage to hireables/summons because they are classed as monsters. This has always been like that so for anything with a tank merc or a single summon can be safe from those things forever.

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 Post subject: Re: Trash Monster HP and Damage
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 7:12 am 
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Quote:
it should also be noted that the exploding minions in act 5 will not do damage to hireables/summons because they are classed as monsters.
Unless you do some minor CE to recognize them as hirelings :P
Edit@down: That's why I said you must do CE to recognize hireables/summons as hirelings as they all are monsters(bluzzard owns).


Last edited by Steel on Fri Dec 17, 2010 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Trash Monster HP and Damage
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:49 pm 
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they do no damage vs hirelings either, mercs for examle cannot be killed by those exploders. Hirelings are still classed as monsters. (like akara, gheed etc. are)

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