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 Post subject: What are popular 2h melee weapons?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:50 pm 
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I know a few of them, but I just want to be sure I am not missing any. Popular ones that I know of are:

Steeldriver
Bonehew
Reaper's
Gorerod
Spire of Honor
Ribcracker
Naj's
Beast
IK
windhammer
exec justice
steelpillar
TombReaver

I assume that people aren't often making 2h Insights or Obediences for anything other than mercs due to wpn speed?

Other than that list, I assume that people are socketing rares or death crafts to get through the mid/near late game?

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 Post subject: Re: What are popular 2h melee weapons?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 3:49 pm 
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Grand Farther

eth gf is gg imo :)


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 Post subject: Re: What are popular 2h melee weapons?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 4:21 pm 
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any other sub 90 items? What about for 2h melee players in the 50s-60s? Is it mostly crafts? If so is the goal to get around 200% ED on a craft (before sockets) for exceptionals and over 300% ED for elite crafts?

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 Post subject: Re: What are popular 2h melee weapons?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 4:26 pm 
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Bloodtree Stump
The Cranium Basher
I always use this wpns, especially for boss fights

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 Post subject: Re: What are popular 2h melee weapons?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 4:36 pm 
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always used crafts + uped them around 80lvl. Problem with 50-60lvl uniqs is dmg, they have everything besides damage. They give you res, spawns, some critts but average dmg while rares/crafts with 300ed 50 ias are all, considering 4 socks and rather cheap jewels.


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 Post subject: Re: What are popular 2h melee weapons?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 4:41 pm 
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Steel wrote:
They give you res, spawns, some critts but average dmg

y missed cb on uniques. crafts vs trash, unique vs bosses

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 Post subject: Re: What are popular 2h melee weapons?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 5:03 pm 
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Just-ice wrote:
Bloodtree Stump
The Cranium Basher
I always use this wpns, especially for boss fights


I assume you are using a barbarian with these weapons? Do you bother socketing them or usually just use them as is for the CB?

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always used crafts + uped them around 80lvl. Problem with 50-60lvl uniqs is dmg, they have everything besides damage. They give you res, spawns, some critts but average dmg while rares/crafts with 300ed 50 ias are all, considering 4 socks and rather cheap jewels.


Damage is easy enough to adjust on uniques, but I don't think I can ever get them as fast as a 4 socket death craft which means that Shapeshifters may never bother with the 60-85 uniques.

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 Post subject: Re: What are popular 2h melee weapons?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 5:14 pm 
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I just use those 2 for the cb. Death crafts are better and easier to aquire. You can get to level 43 with some grinding by the end of act 3, gamble a war club and make a craft that will see you through till late nm.

The 4sockets on them are too much to pass up.

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 Post subject: Re: What are popular 2h melee weapons?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 5:32 pm 
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I used hwanin's on my fclaw for the longest time...repair or indestructible mod was nice not having to repair it every game...lol

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 Post subject: Re: What are popular 2h melee weapons?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 5:57 pm 
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Just a thought - if you don't want to remove 511 ed cap (since cb is going to be limited?) you can add "x-y dmg" to boost dmg greatly.


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 Post subject: Re: What are popular 2h melee weapons?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 5:58 pm 
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Steel wrote:
Just a thought - if you don't want to remove 511 ed cap (since cb is going to be limited?) you can add "x-y dmg" to boost dmg greatly.


yep. known.

The uniques we are talking about are no where near the 511% ED level though. It is more a situation of say boosting the Gavel of Pain from its paltry 200% ED to a more respectable 300% ED which brings its damage to 289-466. That makes it a better contender against its crafted counterparts.

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 Post subject: Re: What are popular 2h melee weapons?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:19 pm 
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Reason why i never use gavel is the lack of ias , i guess it would be a solid choice for conc zerk and mauling with some ias offwpn.

if your removing the 511 ed cap , what would be the new ed% cap then??

steeldriver is near perfect for the lvl range would it be possible to change it to 66% ias tho ? would be possible to hit a higher bp with a shaelrune or a ms ametyst at midlvl


only reason ribcracker is a nice weapon is the speed and the crushing blow
it would need a heavy dmg upgrade if cb is to be removed imo
something like 1xx - 430 is not too much or perhaps include some kind of slow target

prolly have a lot more to add but right now im pretty tired . thanks for putting some effort into the patch and upcoming reset night all.

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 Post subject: Re: What are popular 2h melee weapons?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:20 pm 
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PureRage-DoD wrote:
I just use those 2 for the cb. Death crafts are better and easier to aquire.


I can see that with the Gavel - it was woefully underpowered compared to Death Crafts. Bloodtree looks fairly comparable for a barb though (clearly sucks for a shapeshifter). Here's what it looks like on paper:

has nice +skills
300% ED
228-328 dmg
30% IAS

The breakpoint for a [20] speed weapon for whirlwind is 47% for 6 frames and 79% for 4 frames. So Bloodtree can easily hit 6 frames which isn't bad.

A bloodcraft could hit 4 frames with 3x 20% IAS jewels, but then you are losing damage unless you some how manage to roll a 270% or higher death craft.

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 Post subject: Re: What are popular 2h melee weapons?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 7:19 pm 
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Don't forget that WW gets attacks at frame 4 and 8 regardless of weapon speed. If you're using WW about three times a second, then weapon speed is irrelevant.

Considering that weapons are "balanced" by their base damage, the %ED on them should be pretty similar throughout. An example is Arctic Armor with it's 300% EDef (great buff, but crap armor). I think it would be neat if an upgraded item was actually used. The only one currently used occasionally is Ribcracker, and that's only because the base damage between the exceptional and elite versions is nearly a 500% boost (it's practically a bug).

My WW barb crafted an OgreAxe around level 65 that had about 400% ED (600% after jewels, or 200-1100 dmg), and that only took a couple tries (180-260% from craft auto-mod, and I guess 180% or so from some of it's rolled mods). He's got similar axes around level 46 (About 270%ED, 430% ED after jewels) and 58 (About 270%, 450% after jewels), neither craft was attempted more than twice. I think people are after around 400-500%ED on their weapons, regardless of level.

Considering that Crafts can easily (maybe 10 tries?) roll %ED higher than 300% (since the rolled %ED mods of rare items stack with the auto-mod %ED of the craft), I think the only reason people aren't using crafted instead of rare weapons end-game is the lack of ethereal crafts.

If your goal is to see more uniques being utilized over crafted and rare options, then your best bet is to give them unique attributes, such as Crushing Blow, silly-speed, elemental buffs, etc. There's lots of stuff that doesn't occur easily on rares. As an example, my Rabies druid (ending A5) has been using a 6-Tal crystal sword since level 17. I don't care about it's damage or speed, since landing one hit is enough. I use it since it was easy to come by and since the +48%Pois it gives is useful and unobtainable any other way (although Plague Bearer is arguably equal damage and a bit faster). If you just concentrate on the %ED, then the 511 cap can be rolled around item level 51, so a unique item won't surpass that (but might be a lot easier to obtain).


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 Post subject: Re: What are popular 2h melee weapons?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 8:50 am 
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Brevan wrote:
Don't forget that WW gets attacks at frame 4 and 8 regardless of weapon speed. If you're using WW about three times a second, then weapon speed is irrelevant.


How practical is this though? I haven't ever played a WW barb, so my understanding is very thin (which is why I appreciate the comments), but it seems to me that I always hear about IAS being pretty crucial for players in practical application.

Brevan wrote:
My WW barb crafted an OgreAxe around level 65 that had about 400% ED (600% after jewels, or 200-1100 dmg), and that only took a couple tries (180-260% from craft auto-mod, and I guess 180% or so from some of it's rolled mods). He's got similar axes around level 46 (About 270%ED, 430% ED after jewels) and 58 (About 270%, 450% after jewels), neither craft was attempted more than twice. I think people are after around 400-500%ED on their weapons, regardless of level.


Outstanding information, the detail is very much appreciated. I hope other folks chime in with similar specific bits of info about their items. So the lvl65 Ogre axe probably had around 30-40% IAS (base from craft) and then you used 4x 50% ED jewels to bring it up to the damage? Those type of jewels are likely to outpace any unique at that level, but I would be interested in trying to get it a little close. I think it is unrealistic to have lvl65 items that are going to be comparable to someone who can easily spend 50% ED jewels (or ohm runes) like that. I have been using 25-30% ED jewels as my "baseline". Still, that puts your lvl65 Ogre axe at 520% ED which far outshines Bonehew's socketted value of 410% (base 350% with 2 open sockets).

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 Post subject: Re: What are popular 2h melee weapons?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 10:56 am 
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The ww speed is an issue. If im below 5 frame ww i`ll just ww in tiny tiny bursts. It's more practicl vs IM too with a lower dmage 2 handed weapon, you are only hitting twice per ww so you have time to stop when you see the IM. even with a fast weapon i`ll do this vs IM enemys so weapon speed isn't really an issue

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 Post subject: Re: What are popular 2h melee weapons?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 11:07 am 
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I think that translates in to saying:

speed is important when you aren't facing Iron Maiden.
speed isn't important when you ARE facing Iron Maiden.

I still think that the uniques should be a bit better than simply sources of Crushing Blow, although I accept that serious twinkers (people with easy access to an abundance of 45% and higher ED jewels) will be able to build weapons superior to uniques with crafting. I think that is a reasonable model.

The one thing that stinks at the moment is the BIG difference between the people who put the grind time in to crafting 600% ED wpns in Nightmare compared to the more casual player who is stuck with the 300% ED wpns. I think that breeds the sort of frustration we are seeing in the balance thread topic.

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 Post subject: Re: What are popular 2h melee weapons?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 11:19 am 
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blue_myriddn wrote:
Brevan wrote:
...using WW about three times a second...
How practical is this though?
The biggest obstacle I had was server desync. The method I used to make short WW was holding down Alt and Shift while clicking about 1 small-monster distance (so if I'm at the feet of Imp1, then click at feet of neighbouring Imp2). Desynchronization with the server meant I was attacking targets that didn't exist at that location, so I'd be burning through mana really fast.

blue_myriddn wrote:
So the lvl65 Ogre axe probably had around 30-40% IAS (base from craft)
Axe had no IAS, since I knew I'd be using WW in the way described. All of the crafts I mentioned were Amythest craft, since I figured desync would be my biggest problem. My goal with playing that WW barb was to see how playable it was with short WW bursts. It was a bit less annoying than Zeal with a range-1 weapon (Alt-walk to targetbefore swinging).

blue_myriddn wrote:
Still, 4x30%ED jewels puts your lvl65 Ogre axe at 520% ED which far outshines Bonehew's socketted value of 410% (base 350% with 2 open sockets).
Players might also put more effort into crafting decent weapons, rather than taking the best of 2 attempts, but I suppose if they put in the effort, then it should pay off. Uniques are relatively easy to come by in HU (people keep them much more often, so they're availability is pretty high .... except for Dragon Helm when my Convictor wants it damnit).


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 Post subject: Re: What are popular 2h melee weapons?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 1:29 pm 
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A good craft is also easy to come by though. Puting a higher range on the craft automods would create move variety. Even with a bad roll on a death craft war club you will most likely be dealing alot more damage with the craft than with bloodtree and you can get the craft at an earlier level.

Bigger range on the crafts: I'd like to see the min stay the same across all crafts (norm, exc and elite) and have the maxes increase. Tht would really set the good crafts apart from the bad in comparison to uniqes.

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 Post subject: Re: What are popular 2h melee weapons?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 1:46 pm 
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bigger range = bigger tedium = increases the angst between the grinders and the casual players.

All bad things.

A very powerful (and often overlooked) value of this mod is that it reduces the tedium built in to b.net by allowing people to get powerful items without having to do pindle run after pindle run (or use illegal bots). In the spirit of that, I think it is better to make powerful items accessible to all players rather than just those willing to sit through the boredom of crafting and gambling jewels. That puts more focus on playing the game rather than preparing to play the game.

Right now I am thinking of giving crafts a bit of a dmg reduction and giving uniques a large damage boost to allow them to catch up.

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 Post subject: Re: What are popular 2h melee weapons?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 3:48 pm 
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Bigger range on the crafts: I'd like to see the min stay the same across all crafts (norm, exc and elite) and have the maxes increase. Tht would really set the good crafts apart from the bad in comparison to uniqes.[/quote]


This is a good idea. When i made my first frenzy barb it only took me a few crafts to make verry nice lvl 61 swords which i used all the way from norm baal to nm baal. With these swords i solo'd norm baal and minions with just a nec for amp.
If we make gfg crafts harder to roll then it would make pep use the uniques a lil more.


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 Post subject: Re: What are popular 2h melee weapons?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:52 pm 
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red_neck wrote:
This is a good idea. When i made my first frenzy barb it only took me a few crafts to make verry nice lvl 61 swords which i used all the way from norm baal to nm baal. With these swords i solo'd norm baal and minions with just a nec for amp.
If we make gfg crafts harder to roll then it would make pep use the uniques a lil more.


This makes absolutely no sense and is the kind of feedback that is focused on personal interest rather than any desire to see a balanced/challenging game. Oh yes, you rolled some very powerful lvl61 swords that were superior to everything else through all of NM and allowed you to solo the game with curse support. Based on that, it is a wonderful idea to make those swords even MORE powerful [sarcasm].

There is nothing "hard" about putting gems, jewels and a magic item in to your cube and pressing a button. Increasing the range on crafts won't make it any "harder" to roll a gfg craft, just more tedious and time consuming. Explain to me why we should be glorifying tedious, time consuming behavior?

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 Post subject: Re: What are popular 2h melee weapons?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 6:35 pm 
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blue_myriddn wrote:
red_neck wrote:
This is a good idea. When i made my first frenzy barb it only took me a few crafts to make verry nice lvl 61 swords which i used all the way from norm baal to nm baal. With these swords i solo'd norm baal and minions with just a nec for amp.
If we make gfg crafts harder to roll then it would make pep use the uniques a lil more.


This makes absolutely no sense and is the kind of feedback that is focused on personal interest rather than any desire to see a balanced/challenging game. Oh yes, you rolled some very powerful lvl61 swords that were superior to everything else through all of NM and allowed you to solo the game with curse support. Based on that, it is a wonderful idea to make those swords even MORE powerful [sarcasm].

There is nothing "hard" about putting gems, jewels and a magic item in to your cube and pressing a button. Increasing the range on crafts won't make it any "harder" to roll a gfg craft, just more tedious and time consuming. Explain to me why we should be glorifying tedious, time consuming behavior?



YESS I DID ROLL SOME GFG WEPS. BUT I WAS TRYING TO SAY IF YOU MADE THEM HARDER TO ROLL MABEY PEP WOULD GO WITH WHAT THEY FOUND INSTEAD OF TAKING A FEW HOURS/DAYS TO ROLL A GG CRAFT AND JUST USE THE UNIQUES.


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 Post subject: Re: What are popular 2h melee weapons?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 6:40 pm 
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Quote:
IF YOU MADE THEM HARDER TO ROLL


blue_myriddn wrote:
There is nothing "hard" about putting gems, jewels and a magic item in to your cube and pressing a button.

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