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 Post subject: Damage Reduction
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 9:25 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:13 pm
Posts: 24
Quick question:
Damage Reduced by X
Magic Damage Reduced by X
Damage reduced by X%

(Element) absorbed X%...

1) Does magic damage reduced by X apply to elemental magic, or just "magic"s like bone spear?
2) Does damage reduced by X% apply to physical damage only (in which case physical can be reduced by % and threshold, while magic is stuck only at threshold?(
3) For example, Fire damage absorbed X%... does it become life? or just "vanish"? Is it applied before or after resistance and other damage reduction items?

Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Damage Reduction
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 12:27 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:28 am
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Location: Vancouver, BC
1) Magic Damage reduced by X applies to fire, cold, lit, and magic element damage. It does not apply to physical or poison element damage.
2) Damage reduced by X% applies to physical element damage. This really is just phys res, and works the same as the other elements except that the cap is 50% instead of 75%. In NM and Hell setting, phys res and magic res isn't reduced, while the other four elements are reduced.
3) The absorbed damage becomes life. This means that you can die before you have the chance to recover some of that damage as life (e.g. If 69 HP and hit for 100 dmg with 30% absorb then you die, but if 71 HP in that situation then you live with 31 HP left over). Absorb% cap is 40%, so at best you essentially reduce all fire, cold, or lit damage by 80%. The 20% that gets through can be further resisted.

Order of damage deflection:

1) Defence is high enough to not get hit
2) Block is high enough to not get hit (and no block animation running)
3) Avoid Evade, or similar skills go into effect
4) Damage is directed to Bone Armor or Cyclone Armor
5) Damage is redirected and taken to MP via Energy Shield
6) Damage is reduced by X
7) Damage is resisted by %
8) Damage is absorbed by %
9) Damage to taken to HP
10) HP can be gained from absorbs

HU does not have Absorbs X, only %. I tested that step 4 and 5 are in the correct order using ES with only BoneArmor. The fact that step 5 and step 6 are in the order listed is why ES sorcs are such godly tanks against trash in HU (Even a 50% EShield will effectively double the dr/mdr they have, and HU has a lot of dr/mdr options).


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 Post subject: Re: Damage Reduction
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 3:44 am 

Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:53 am
Posts: 126
Could you clarify how having pdr and mdr being calculated after ES is helpful?

Doesnt that mean its useless on a lightning sorc with 95% ES? Because only the remainder 5% of the damage is reduced by pdr/mdr. While the bulk of the damage still goes to the ES.

If u're refering to low level ES. ~50%. wouldn't the fact that u are dedicated your gear to pdr/mdr mean that u'll have a low mana pool, resulting in a weak ES? And resulting in having zero mana all the time?

Or are you saying that ideally ES works best on sorcs as a 1 pointer to get a 50% ES with +skills, and TK (ES synergy) + other damage skills maxed. After which you find some balance between pdr/mdr and %max mana in gear?


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 Post subject: Re: Damage Reduction
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 6:50 am 
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a pure energy ES sorc will have very very low hp, that 5% damage can be really nasty when deling with such low life. As the dmage is reduced after ES you can negate all damage to health while having negative resists. Your mana is so high that you recover 300-400 a sec easily so you won't struggle for mana. ES is always best as a 1 pointer unless you are making a TK sorc. Any more than 1 point is a aste outside that situation. 1 point ES and maxed TK is alot more effective.

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 Post subject: Re: Damage Reduction
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:46 am 

Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:09 am
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I've heard that magic damage reduced actually DOESNT apply to the element magic, and only fire/cold/light. Although I trust you Brevan, I'd need a second opinion on this. Can anyone else knowledgeable confirm if it is jsut FCL or its also magic?


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 Post subject: Re: Damage Reduction
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:00 am 

Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:53 am
Posts: 126
so 1 pt ES + max TK is useful for 80 skill point builds? If thats the case, do you put stats into vit or energy? or 50:50 ratio?


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 Post subject: Re: Damage Reduction
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:36 am 
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muleofal wrote:
I've heard that magic damage reduced actually DOESNT apply to the element magic, and only fire/cold/light.
It's an easy test, just gear any character with 4-socket white armor/hat with 4 PDiamonds in it (lvl 44, total of 72 dr/mdr), and then tank normal Mephisto, since his TeethOrb and BSpear are both magic attacks he likes to use often. Alternatively, you can tank Raddy's Unholy Bolt. Just keep in mind that if you take damage at all, then it might be because any damage that got past your reduction wasn't resisted at all (most people get used to resisting 75%, like the FCL dmg).

patrick_pkl wrote:
so 1 pt ES + max TK is useful for 80 skill point builds? If thats the case, do you put stats into vit or energy? or 50:50 ratio?
Hard to say in some cases. Spreading your points out early on to add in TK weakens your char (so spreading is a bad idea), but going all-vita early on spreads your stats and weakens your mana regen late-game. On Normal and quite a bit of NM, just using quad socketed armor/hat with diamonds makes you immune to just about everything (99% of cases), if you're playing SC, then you can safely die in that 1% of cases that surprised you. I've personally made a sorc with points spread in most stats (except vit, just to be fun, sort of spread as 75,75,0,250), and she was fine. She was diamond-immune before lvl 28 and energy shield. I stopped playing her around A5 NM due to lack of gear (she was a melee sorc, but needs new shield and off-weapon Zeal oSkill). In A5 NM (pre-Ancients) she was still immune to just about everything.


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 Post subject: Re: Damage Reduction
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 11:06 am 
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Magic damage reduction reduces f/c/l/m damage.
Quote:
Just keep in mind that if you take damage at all, then it might be because any damage that got past your reduction wasn't resisted at all
well magic damage% is 0 always unless you have gear with it(20% was max on bnet).
Instead of going meph just ask 9lvl nec to hit you with teeth.


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 Post subject: Re: Damage Reduction
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:36 pm 
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Brevan wrote:
I stopped playing her around A5 NM due to lack of gear (she was a melee sorc, but needs new shield and off-weapon Zeal oSkill). In A5 NM (pre-Ancients) she was still immune to just about everything.


Try "Chaos" in a 15ed shilleagh or archon staff, that worked really well for mine (560 odd max damage on the staff and a half decent range puts her at around 12k ww with chant). My HC one uses that + glassglare, tals helm, ele set, ss trecks, blood gloves and nos coil. Tanking wise she is ok as long as there is an oak around (get her to 10kish life with good absorbs) and ms diamonds in all sockets. The only thing she needs is (as you say) a decent 1 handed setup for bosses. stormshield and a deathcraft weap on switch is ok but the normal attack kills the build on hell bosses.

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 Post subject: Re: Damage Reduction
PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 8:16 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:44 am
Posts: 84
How much vit should I use with a TK/ES and all that jazz sorceress? Hardcore intended


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