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 Post subject: The Ultimate Undead Killer?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 8:26 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:42 am
Posts: 73
I'm looking to design a character specifically for killing undead.

My initial build is considering a blessed hammer pally. Here's what I was thinking for skill layout.

20 Blessed Hammers
20 Fist of The Heavens
20 Holy Bolt
20 Fanat
20 Redemption
1 Point all defensive resist aura's.

I do not know the mechanics behind Blessed Hammer though. Whether it is affected by FCR, IAS, etc. I'd assume FCR.

If so, what other skill layouts should I consider?

Is there a better build idea for dealing strictly with the undead?

Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: The Ultimate Undead Killer?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:47 pm 

Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:27 pm
Posts: 231
Bless hammer doesnt gain damage from fanatic.You should to use concentration aura instead Coz It will boost your BH damage
And you should to max your Holy shield. Dont max your redemption (If u need to use redemption, put 1 point on it)


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 Post subject: Re: The Ultimate Undead Killer?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 11:56 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:42 am
Posts: 73
Seeing as he will be designed to fight undead, there will be no form of leech. Was hoping to use redemption to keep myself healed as I fight.

Thanks for the heads up about fanat!


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 Post subject: Re: The Ultimate Undead Killer?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:15 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:08 am
Posts: 78
Sanctuary.
When active, aura damages the undead
with magic and knocks them back,
also adds magic damage to attacks.
Sanctuary receives bonuses from:
Conversion: +20% magic damage per level
Salvation: +10% magic damage per level
Conviction: +10% magic damage per level

That's the description in the skill tree; here's a few things it doesn't tell you. You can apply sanctuary attacks to a bow, with Gravepalm gloves you can use multishot for quite a good trash killing skill.

Sources of 'sanctuary on equip' like holy crafted armor are additive and also synergise with hard points in conversion, salvation and conviction. This would only give you a little bit more though, its like a level 20 sanctuary (or whatever your skill level is) plus a level 8 sanctuary, not a level 28 sanctuary if that makes sense.

I don't know if all this gives you the undead-killing power you seek but there's more. Other sources of 'aura on equip' like a Dream helmet's level 20 holy shock, a Hand of Justice bow's level 20 holy fire, an Ice bow's level 12 holy freeze all synergise with the hard points already in conviction and salvation. There are still enough skill points remaining to add to the resist auras that match the 'holy on equip' auras. Using a bow obviously means no need for a holy shield.

There's a lot you can do with this basic Auradin, I've tried some aspects of it and it's quite expensive to make. The easiest route to start is with a bow that shoots exploding arrows like Ravenclaw then Kuko Shakaku then Demon Machine etc and put points into holy fire and resist fire to both increase the fire damage of the arrow and the fire damage of the explosion or splash damage. But you want an undead killer. Probably fist of heavens is better but there's a few more ideas for ya.


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 Post subject: Re: The Ultimate Undead Killer?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:41 am 
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You should decide if you want to be a caster or a fighter. If you want to be a caster, Blessed Hammer and Fist of the Heavens is the way to go. If you like to fight, Sanctuary is made for you. Sanctuary ignores physical resistances of undead (which is not mentioned in the skill description sadly), so you can kill even physical immune undead. Then you can choose a main combat skill you want (Zeal most likely).

Caster may be safer and better at killing trash. The fighter also has the disadvantage of the lack of life & mana leech from undead, so you need to find other means of healing yourself. Of course, as Retrov mentioned, holy craft armors provide sanctuary aura on equip, so you could safely use something else as a main aura.. Maybe some prayer/meditation stacking or a fanaticism aura for speed.


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 Post subject: Re: The Ultimate Undead Killer?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:00 am 

Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:42 am
Posts: 73
Very informative advice guys...

I'm leaning towards a melee undead killer I suppose, seeing as that's an option.

The idea of sanctuary mixed with holy fire and fire res sounds pretty entertaining..

I'm curious, Ret, what would you recommend for a skill layout though. Is maxing Sanctuary a go? What about it's synergies? That won't leave many points after Holy Fire and Fire Res. What are some ideas I should entertain here?


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 Post subject: Re: The Ultimate Undead Killer?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:24 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:08 am
Posts: 78
If you choose melee you can get 12 sanctuary from shield, 12 from weapon like Lawbringer or Azurewrath and 8 from armor eventually. If you maxed Conversion, Conviction and Salvation, that's a lot of magic damage without even putting points in Sanctuary.

Option 1: Free sanctuary (lots of sources for it)
20 Holy fire
20 Fire res
20 Conviction
20 Conversion
20 Salvation

Option 2: Free holy fire (Hand of Justice, a Cham runeword)
20 Fire res
20 Sanctuary
20 Conviction
20 Conversion
20 Salvation

Option 3: Free everything (Hoj, Dream, and Sactuary armor and shield)
20 Light res
20 Fire res
20 Conversion
20 Conviction
20 Salvation


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 Post subject: Re: The Ultimate Undead Killer?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:41 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:08 am
Posts: 78
Also, points to note.

Using your main damage aura on equip (Sanc/Holy whatever) frees you up to use Convicton as your active aura. That's pretty essential for 2 reasons: firstly with only 1 point of Zeal it's very hard to hit anything even while using angelics ring and amulet combination, Conviction reduces target defence as well as resists, which leads to the second reason that lowering resists helps the elemental aspect of your damage.

Most of the gear needed to make use of an Auradin's shared synergies (Salvation/Conviction) is very high level and expensive like Jah or Cham runewords and requires you to find good parties while you level up where your auras support them more than they support you. In other words, leech. However, if you choose Option 1 and max out Holy Fire first, you can start off with an extremely powerful Ranger paladin using the aforementioned exploding bows. Charms that add fire damage are particularly useful as their damage is not only added to the arrows but also to the splash.


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 Post subject: Re: The Ultimate Undead Killer?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:04 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:21 am
Posts: 38
I am not an expert of this mod at all, but today I kill radament on hell difficulty. the way to radament is filled with undead. if you are looking for test area for your undead hunter. this is the right place. HU is very challenging mod but here my hammerdin was not like ultimate killer, but GODLIKE!!! I switched to FOH+conviction and the more undead comes, the better. with 2-3 foh I killed 40-50 undead, amazing show. everything was dead within a few second.
my hammer deserved something like this after a terrible fight with tobial :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: The Ultimate Undead Killer?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:34 am 
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convic won't help FoH, its purely magic damage now.

Sanctuary is a fun build as there will never (usualy) be anything that is completely immune to you. Non undead phys immunes can be killed with the added magic damage, magic immunes can be killed with your phys damage. Just put an "eth" rune in your weapon and you will very rarely miss. Use a cold act 3 merc to slow enemys for you and you should have no problems.

You can also convert things that can help you out on trash (healers in act 3 for amazing prayer in nm and hell, amp witches etc. in act 5) you can convert 10-15 enemys and have them follow you for entire maps, providing amazing cover for you.

I'd say the sanctuary build is one of the most versatile I've played. It's not super powered but really steady.

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 Post subject: Re: The Ultimate Undead Killer?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:45 pm 

Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:09 am
Posts: 734
I like the FOH/BH version. Good single target and AOE damage to undead. FOH doesn't have anything to boost it's damage, so you have a lot of variety:

- conviction/fanat = damage support for party or hirelings
- holy freeze = crowd control slow
- meditation (with prayer maxed for synergy) = good healing and mana regeneration to let you spam foh (also is great if you go full def gcs)
- other auras = for fun/something different (example, fast vigor)

BH has concentration of course, which makes it crazy strong, and it bypasses resistances of demon and undead.

It all depends on your playstyle really. If I were making a character for a specialty function like this, I'd go with a caster since they clear it quickly. Sanctuary melee works well too, just is too slow for enjoyment IMO.


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 Post subject: Re: The Ultimate Undead Killer?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 7:14 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:42 am
Posts: 73
If I go with option 2, the one that involves maxing Sanctuary, will I have decent damage early on without any hard points in Holy fire?

The Sanctuary/Holy fire with exploding areas idea sounds really, really fun. It sounds like it will have good crowd control with conversion.

Now, the reason I had considered rocking out with redemption is that many of the undeads come back to life, or can be "rezzed". Examples are all the chargers in Act 5, everything around radament, etc. With Redemption, they're not able to be brought back. Is there some way to also achieve this without any points in redemption. Maybe a holy weapon on switch?

It seems like option 1 may be best, maxing out the holy fire and fire res. Doing this with some Sanctuary on equip seems like it'll make for the most devastating character early on? However, you mentioned getting Sanctuary off a weapon. If you're using bows/crossbows with the exploding arrows feature, how can you get Sanctuary on your weapon?


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 Post subject: Re: The Ultimate Undead Killer?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 11:59 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:08 am
Posts: 78
Sanctuary from weapon or shield is only available if you choose melee as I said. Should also point out that using free auras on equip lacks any boost by increasing skills with gear or using skillers, you're limited to the level it says it is. Having multiple auras makes up for that to a certain degree.

Sanc/Holy fire:
1 Holy fire (prereq to Conviction anyway)
20 Fire res
20 Sanctuary
20 Conversion
20 Conviction
20 Salvation

Using an exploding bow with 1 in holy fire and maxing out fire res might work until you get sanctuary up and running. Carry lots of fire damage charms and use fire damage jewels or Ral runes in gear and weapon to make up for the basic holy fire. Then work on sanctuary and synergies until level 85 when you can make a holy fire weapon, be it bow or melee. Brand at level 80 makes quite a nice bow too, it casts an amplify damage curse and shoots exploding arrows, double whammy.

Despite the vast range of skills you can incorporate into the Auradin, it's best not to branch out to too many though because it starts to lose focus. You can never get enough -enemy res or +skill dmg% for all damage types. And you can only have one of your own auras active, obviously :)


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 Post subject: Re: The Ultimate Undead Killer?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:03 am 
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It should be noted that amp + sanctuary don't mix. If amp drops an enemy to negative phys res, you will get no benefit (vs undeads at least). It ignores the res completely (negative included). Against something like Achmael/Raddy you are better using tap + sanctuary for this reason.

You can get to the level 28 mark without holy fire if you really want to. I sink 10 or so into zeal for the Ar, then save my points to max sanctuary and conversion at the same time (end of act 2 you will have your main aura). You can get really really good magic damage if you max sanctuary and the pulse will kill most undead within 1 screen in 1 or 2 pulses. I had one last patch who was killing chargers in nm with 2 pulses.

I make one every ladder usualy but haven't done one yet this patch. Maybe i`ll do that soon. :)

Edit: You can hit 14k-19k magic damage to attack with a perf setup + max dr%. With an average number of charms you will hit about 17k top end mag damage end game. 1625% damage to undead and 812% damage to demons With a gris caddy with diamonds in you can hit 92% mag pierce without using whisps. with a good high phys damage weapon on switch to deal with the one or 2 magic immunes you find you should be all good.

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 Post subject: Re: The Ultimate Undead Killer?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 5:28 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:11 pm
Posts: 33
About a holy caster the skills are:
20 holy bolt
20 holy hammer
20 fist of heaven
20 concentration
and 20 prayer? for extra good healing activities maybe?


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 Post subject: Re: The Ultimate Undead Killer?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:19 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:42 am
Posts: 73
I forgot to ask...

The main purpose of this build, when I was originally thinking of redemption, was to stop undeads from coming back to life.

What would be the best way to do this with no redemption? Act 3 cold merc? What about up until that point?


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 Post subject: Re: The Ultimate Undead Killer?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:40 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2009 10:07 am
Posts: 237
Location: Hungary
If that is all you want, you can play a necro and explode all the corpses. It's fun! :D
If you want to stick with a paladin, you can put 1 point into Redemption, it will do the trick. +Skills will pump it up enough to have a decent chance of clearing the corpses around you. Just switch to it for a few seconds.


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 Post subject: Re: The Ultimate Undead Killer?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 3:27 pm 
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Location: Vancouver, BC
There were a few comments about getting your char going in the early game. I find the best way to do this via twink-gear is +FireDmg Jewels (about 10-30 Fire at lvl 11) in a quad socketed armor and Topaz-craft hat. You should be easily able to get exploding arrows doing about 300-500 damage. Charms are a strong source of damage too for this idea (just this morning I found a single-mod lvl 30 GC with 25-44 Fire on it. Normally I'd be happy to get a 3-7 Fire SC or 12-20 Fire LC). You can also gear an A1 merc with the exact same gear for some intense early-game trash clearing. Just remember to craft the hat with a level 1 so it's level isn't much above 14 (still 20% chance of like lvl 22)

Just some numbers:
8x FireJewel = about 80-240
TopazHat = about 40-60 with +10%FireDmg
RavenClaw bow with Ral = 40-60 with +8%FireDmg
Noko Ammy = 10Fire (also consider Cathan ring+Ammy)
Hotspur boots = 6-12Fire

Clearly after the bow, armor, and hat (total = 120-360Fire with +18%), the rest of your gear is up to you (Death sash and glove is hard to pass up) since it makes such a small difference. If you're using 1pt HFire, then Eye ammy for +1Skill is a no-brainer.

I've often used the above setup to devastate trash from char level 14 to A4 and occasionally into A5 (just upgrade to Kuko and Razortail). With all of Normal covered by your A1 gear, you should be good to go. Assuming you're playing SC, you can borrow my set of gear. I don't intend to make new chars any time soon.

Since this undead-killer build is new for you, you might want to stop using the twinks earlier, or just create a different set of twinks that make melee more enjoyable for you.

The easiest way to remove corpses early game is just a Holy weapon on switch. There's really only a couple places you'd need it, so it's not worth it.


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 Post subject: Re: The Ultimate Undead Killer?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 5:43 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:42 am
Posts: 73
Brevan, thank you for the offer to use your gear! Alas, I am playing single player so that's not an option. =)

The redemption on switch is what I'll go with for keeping them dead. An Act 3 cold merc seems like a good choice as well with my skill layout.

Hadn't thought about the topaz crafted hat.. Great idea! I'm doing 200 damage right now in Act 2 with Holy Fire and Ravenclaw on a 22 Pally. I have ALOT of gear I could upgrade though.. Think I'll log in and start crafting right now. Thanks guys :)


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