Login | Register


All times are UTC - 5 hours


It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 2:33 pm




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 93 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:49 am 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:48 am
Posts: 2432
As you may know, the Carrion Wind Ring no longer provides a 30pt free synergy boost to this skill which dramatically cuts down on the dmg output of the skill. This has resulted in the skill to be given a death sentence by the community, so I figured I would build myself one of these gimped druids and see just how bad things are. For those who don't know, I rather enjoy playing "useless" builds although this time around it isn't quite as pleasant because the ladder reset means that items are rather scarce. To be honest, I rather like being able to shop around my mules for fun stuff for obscure builds but this time I will have to start from scratch and rely on the generosity of others.

First, some quick overviews of the two key skills in this build and I am going to focus on simple rather than detail. There is a LOT of complexity to rabies that quite frankly probably isn't worth going in to.

Rabies:
Two things happen when you use this skill: 1. you infect an immediate target (what I will call application). 2. this infection spreads from that target to anyone that comes within their immediate vicinity (what I will call infection). Some other aspects of it
  • Both application and infection are boosted by Increased Poison skill damage (such as from Tal rune)
  • Both application and infection are boosted by -Enemy Poison Resists (such as emeralds)
  • Plays nice with other sources of poison rather than overriding it, which makes it somewhat more party friendly
  • Has a duration that starts out small, but increases as you put more skill points in it.

Poison Creeper:
Strange little companion that is practically indestructable. It can only be damaged when it is above ground which makes it pretty hearty even during boss fights. It also is generally not buffed by your oak sage (again, except when it is above ground).

The creeper lays down poison "mats" and whenever a monster moves on that mat it gets infected with its poison. The actual damage that the mat does is somewhat debated as some people claim that the more monsters on the mat, the more effective it is - but it seems to in general be less effective than rabies. The biggest drawback seems to be that your mat is NOT influenced by -enemy resists and might not even benefit from +psn skill dmg gear. That will probably start to show up in late NM or Hell and be pretty easy to spot.

Early game, your creeper is very strong especially since it is so durable. You can "creeper toss" it in to a mob and do considerable damage in a relatively safe manner. This is particularily handy in large team games. The Creeper AI is a little stubborn, so I would actually encourage you to recast it over and over to get it placed right where you want it. This tends to make a rabies druid something of a caster build early game, which is nice as it allows you to put some focus on your Oak Sage.


As I play this build, I see two key routes - caster style or melee style. Given that you really only need 40pts for your dmg skills, this character is nice in the flexibility department.

The caster approach would be to focus on hit and run tactics or other things to keep the monsters busy while they are green and dying. You would build your gear with the concept of not hitting a whole lot, just enough to apply the poison. Skills to boost would be your summons and perhaps go as a bear and use shockwave to keep monsters stunned. You could then also use Maul as a boss killer, although you wouldn't really be all that strong against bosses. This mode would probably work best for those who have a strong party - especially one that already has characters who can kill bosses.

The melee approach would be go with Fury to have a strong melee attack. Your poison would soften things up while you pound away with fury and make yourself your own tank. You would be weaker than a pure Fury build as you don't have the points to spread around, but you do get the nice bonus of a very strong poison attack to help you out. I suspect that this route will also require you to be a slightly gimped tank as you need to divert points away from life boosting skills and need to orient your gear a little. Still - it opens up the ability for you to deliver strong physical dmg and more importantly effective crushing blow.

Currently, I am leaning towards dropping my points in the melee route as I haven't ever played a Fury druid before and I also like the idea of being more powerful against bossses. I suspect that by going strong poison early game and then building up my melee skills later in the game, I will help offset the tapering damage loss to my poison skills as the game progresses and monster resistances get higher.

At the moment, my character is in A3 and can run around just fine. Been pretty straight forward although I have taken a few shortcuts by partying with some power groups to get past bosses. I am in a bit of a hurry to move beyond Normal and start to really get a feel for this build.

I do have a few balance thoughts already though as I think that ultimately this build is not really well balanced for this community at the moment.

1. Empower rabies items.
Probably the biggest weakness I see right now is a limit of good items. There needs to be a few all around item boosts for this character. The few items that are really good have tragic flaws to them. For example, I am using the Jade Tan Do which is outstanding with its super fast attack, ITD, and +10% psn skill boost. However, with a paltry 16 durability it is broken after short battles. If it is to be an effective melee weapon, it needs a durability to match. I suspect this problem will be the case for all the dagger class weapons which is a shame as they seem to be designed for this build.

2. Give Spirit of Barbs the ability to lower enemy poison resists.
I don't know how tricky this is to code, but this would be a very nice boost as it would tackle the key problem of resists.

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:08 pm 
Game Server Host
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:33 am
Posts: 4291
Quote:
Currently, I am leaning towards dropping my points in the melee route as I haven't ever played a Fury druid before and I also like the idea of being more powerful against bossses. I suspect that by going strong poison early game and then building up my melee skills later in the game, I will help offset the tapering damage loss to my poison skills as the game progresses and monster resistances get higher.


As you say, the poison will taper off alot and so you have just wasted those points as you could have gone pure melee to go through the early game instead of using a skill that works ok in act 5 normal, then is far too weak to cope in nm. Your build looks like it is going to be a fury druid with maxed rabies and creeper. equip will have to lean towards the melee side so you work against bosses thus your rabies damage will be worthless without the "caster" gear to support it. Anyway, that dont really matter as the rabies druid didnt work until mid nightmare before either so thats not an issue. The thing is, the skill you are testing (rabies) will fail after normal anyway. No amount of -enemy res will make rabies work with the current changes, it needs another synergie at half the % of the poison creeper synergie. (raven would fit in nicely here) At the very least, this would mean the build would have no points to get a decent summon though so it would still be underpowered in comparison to any other druid build, by a long way.

pierce an enemy to -100 res end game with lets say 30k rabies (about the damage *delta had with creeper maxed and a pure +% damage setup) thats still only 60k over 8 secs. 7.5k damage a sec end game. That is pretty badass...

_________________
Bron wrote:
There's no cure for being a cunt.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:05 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 1:02 pm
Posts: 40
Location: Youngstown OH
blue_myriddn wrote:

2. Give Spirit of Barbs the ability to lower enemy poison resists.
I don't know how tricky this is to code, but this would be a very nice boost as it would tackle the key problem of resists.



this can easily be done IF all 6 aurastats on SoB aura aren't all used, the only drawback is you wont be able to get a poison conviction effect, passivepoison_pierce has to be used, seeing as how if it had a conviction like effect it would lower allies poison res

Edit you're in luck blue, aurastats 4,5,6 are empty meaning pierce poison can be done

_________________
there is no sig


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:25 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:42 am
Posts: 45
Is Rabies the only skill that got rid of synergies from charged items? On single player Marrowwalk still gives synergy to Bone Armor, not sure of any other popular charged synergies off the top of my head though.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:30 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:12 am
Posts: 57
long story short as they are, dont play rabies.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:24 pm 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:48 am
Posts: 2432
Level 54 and up to the Baal quest. Rabies is maxed and I have a good chunk in the creeper synergy. I do just shy of 20k psn dmg over about 7 seconds (roughly 3k/sec) and it kills pretty well when I am solo. I can go to the Frigid WP and wipe things out there, but even though 20k may sound like a lot it isn't really as strong as all of that. I certainly don't dominate with damage when I am in a party, zons and sorcs outshine me without a problem.

I currently have no poison boosting items aside from the emeralds in my weapon, but there aren't a whole lot in early game that are all that viable. I already put in my two cents on the viablility of the Jade Tan Do.

Seems to work pretty well to let the rabies spread through the crowd and then switch over to fury if for no other reason than it gives me a chance to leech. I have the normal druid issue where if I am not life leeching I am in a lot of danger. I cut through crowds pretty well with this method. Against bosses in a party I tend to focus on keeping my spirit (be it oak, HoW, or Spirit of Barbs) alive, occasionally tossing a bear in the way (although that rarely is helpful), and tapping the boss now and then to keep him green. I recently stuck with more caster oriented gear during a boss fight and that seemd to work just fine. I bet that I could go all out toe to toe with a boss though if I put my points a little differently - I went pretty heavy on psn skills without a lot in Lycan or Oak (maybe 10 pts in Oak).

Currently, I am seriously thinking of setting up two sets of gear:

1. get some blood craft gloves for crushing blow, use RattleCage and a fast weapon to farm early bosses for goodies while playing solo.

2. Setup a shield and some defensive armor, craft some psn boots and use this as my party gear to stay strong during fights while hitting the boss every 7-8 seconds to keep him losing life.

I have also been playing this character pretty cheesy, partying up with higher level folks and riding the waves of rush parties to skip my way through Normal. My gear is sucky and no one really cares what I think of the balance of a rabies druid in Norm anyway, so I don't see a big reason to drag it out.

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:58 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:09 pm
Posts: 77
So basically you're restating what we've already said that rabies druids are now useless. Even with a pierce synergy, a sorc or zon with the same amount of pierce will still greatly outshine you.

_________________
blue_myriddn wrote:
I was tagging along with Lord_Soth's level 56 healer to finish up A2 with my lvl28 Rabies druid and letting his prayer pump me through the game.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:16 pm 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:48 am
Posts: 2432
Martel- wrote:
So basically you're restating what we've already said that rabies druids are now useless. Even with a pierce synergy, a sorc or zon with the same amount of pierce will still greatly outshine you.


I would hope that a sorc or zon would out dmg me. They don't have all the other skills that I have and should do more dmg.

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:56 pm 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:48 am
Posts: 2432
The damage is a bit disappointing sometimes as it has such a high number but does so little actual damage. I wonder if it has something to do with the additive effects of poison resists on bosses ~ might have to do some math on that (bleh!).

Just did Ancients with a group and even though I list at 17k dmg over 7 seconds with -5% psn resist, I wasn't really even making a dent in Talic. In comparision a zon with about 1-3k physical dmg was knockin him down.

One big question that I think will need some discussion on is whether the duration of rabies needs to be reduced a bit to bump up its dmg. Again - some math might be in order to evaluate what role monster resists are coming in to play.

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 4:56 am 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 5:05 am
Posts: 422
Well, that is actually more dmg than my psn zon did at that point. SHe is currently lvl 75ish, maxed psn skills and doing about 15k psn jav/spray and 30k plague jav. It can kill shit when I'm alone but it kinda blows when I'm in a group (which I am 95% of the time). At nm rof atm.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 10:01 am 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:48 am
Posts: 2432
Utter wrote:
Well, that is actually more dmg than my psn zon did at that point. SHe is currently lvl 75ish, maxed psn skills and doing about 15k psn jav/spray and 30k plague jav. It can kill shit when I'm alone but it kinda blows when I'm in a group (which I am 95% of the time). At nm rof atm.


What are the durations on that jav/spray and plague?

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 12:15 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 5:05 am
Posts: 422
Jav/spray has a fixed duration of 6sec, plague was at 7ish sec at the time.
I have now gotten her to 79 and gotten some new gear, seems like the dmg really ramps up at around skill levels 26-30. About 5 more skills and some elemental crafted boots (14%) gave me a boost to 28-29k psn jav (still 6 sec), and a whopping 60-61k plague jav over 8 sec. She's still far from beeing a powerhouse but now I actually kill stuff in my team. The team consist of a meteor sorc, bone necro, ww barb, zeal/smite pala and a melee druid at the moment.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 2:23 pm 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:48 am
Posts: 2432
Finally cheesed this guy in to Nightmare after getting him to Castle 1 portal 3 times. When Freyja and EverReady (lvl90ish) hopped in to run the party through the quest, I happily tagged along with my oak or SoB running to provide my contribution while the big guns ripped through the quest for me. As I said before, I don't think anyone really cares if this build is viable in Norm ~ so I have no qualms about skipping it for this test build and wimping out with a free ride.

Some interesting things though as I have gone along. For starters, his damage seems to fluctutate massively between monsters and I assume this is due to poison resistance. I also got to run with a party that ran Lower Resists rather than the normal amp and that was a big help. If I had my way in balancing this mod, I would make Amp dmg be a combination of reducing physical resistance AND elemental resistance rather than leaving the poor elemental dmg dealers out in the cold in 99% of party situations.

I also noticed that some of the 1 handed druid weapons that are basically useless to the fireclaw/frostbite druids really kick butt for the rabies druid since their damage output is not tied to speed. Let me pull some math fom my Frostbite guide to make my point:

Code:
6 frame 2,000 dmg  4.17 attacks per second  8,333 DPS - 
5 frame 2,000 dmg  5.00 attacks per second  10,000 DPS 20% increase
4 frame 2,000 dmg  6.25 attacks per second  12,500 DPS 25% increase
3 frame 2,000 dmg  8.33 attacks per second  16,667 DPS 33% increase


As you can see, increasing your attack speed (indicated by the frame rate) will make huge strides in your dmg output. With a rabies druid though, that is irrelevant. You are going to do 20k dmg over 7 seconds no matter how many times you beat the monster over the head with a club. The only thing that fast attack gets you is additional physical dmg and leech. Against a boss though, I found that hit and run really works pretty well. As such an item like the FleshRender really rocks even though you are only going to hit 9 or 10 frames at best because it has a +3 bonus to rabies and Prevent Monster Heal mod.

Even though during solo play you probably want something fast (I have been using Hwainin's Bill with 3x perfect emeralds and 1 perfect Amethyst to hit 5 frames), in a team game I often found myself just making sure that monsters were infected. Worked pretty well during Baal's waves - I would using Dark Clan for the +2 druid skills to boost my Oak and just whack the boss now and then to keep the red rabies aura on him at all time.

I will start him out in Nightmare and see how he works. Currently with +skill weapons like Dark Clan, Fleshrender or Islestrike I am doing over 22k dmg over 7 seconds, but with Hwanin's Bill that drops to around 16k. I get a lot more leech from Hwanin's though and I get the -15% psn resists, so I bet it is pretty similar. I just lack the shield which is handy in boss fights.

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:57 am 
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:22 am
Posts: 35
im not sure about my old build or what the rest of the points went in to, he was just a tester build last ladder but even with the ring i did less damage then a fully maxed rabies by alot.

this was with mediocre gear im not sure but i think is was listed damage at around 150 or 160k.

the only reason i build it was to see how the others was getting there boasted 450k+ damage

gear wise was pretty crap courpsemourne armor, head hunters, plague sword, hell mouth gloves, sm boots and belt and cerbrus helm.

dont quote me on the damage cause i cant remember honestly but it wasnt far from that i said.

so im assuming with best endgame gear that damage could maybe double or triple with skillers and stuff?


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 12:35 pm 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:48 am
Posts: 2432
Made a good trade with Nedder last night - he wanted my eth Ballista and showered me with goodies in return for it. I also have now started wearing my 14% psn dmg boots. That combined with the Plague Bearer I got from Nedder (+6 rabies) has brought me up to 47k dmg over 8 seconds which changes the game quite a bit. PlagueBearer is slower though, so I am moving towards a hit and run game which seems to be working well. Most things die in the first 8 second cast of rabies although occasionally I have to hit them twice. I have been running solo though as it seems that all the other lvl60 characters in NM are already in A2 or beyond.

During the baal quest a PussSpitter dropped which has turned my A1 merc in to a LowerResist curse machine. With 96% IAS and pierce attack (from RazorTail belt), the relatively slow xbow cranks out pretty fast. I generally don't need the LowerResist for trash mobs, but against the random unique that I meet, it is handy.

I decided to test my boss skills out on the Smith since he is pretty easy as far as bosses go. Took a bit of time, but only about 4 juvs and 10-15 heals and the Smith went down without too much trouble. My merc stayed alive the whole battle and the Lower Resist definetly made a difference.


*edit* leveled up and can now wear +3 shapeshifter helm to boost my dmg to 58k

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 2:27 pm 
Game Server Host
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:33 am
Posts: 4291
7250 DPS
around the damage a level 40 build would be dealing (any class)

what level are you at the min and how are your skill points invested so far?

what level is rabies also and what is your full equip setup? Just wondering how much further you can raise your skill level and how many synergie/rabies points are left untill max

_________________
Bron wrote:
There's no cure for being a cunt.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 3:18 pm 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:48 am
Posts: 2432
lvl64
max rabies
probably 15 points in to creeper

Gear at the moment is:

blood craft gloves
uniq lvl40 druid helm or +3 shapeshifter circlet now
+1 druid amulet
2x +1 skill rings
14% psn craft boots
Goldskin armor for kicks, dont have a +skill armor
rare belt with resists
Either Sigon shield for skill or Milbrega's for defense. Most of the time Milbregas to keep my resists max

Overdue for screenshots, will log in next time to do that.

I would say that dmg isn't really a problem at the moment, most everything dies in 8 seconds and the area damage of rabies is great (spreads from monster to monster to clear out wide areas) especially when combo'd with a multishot A1 merc. In parties that tends to slow down a bit as a party tends to clear areas faster than 8 seconds, so I just sort of soften all the monsters to allow others to kill.

I can see my effecitve dmg taking a nose dive by A3 NM though as my gear isn't going to grow by leaps and bounds like it has recently.

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 11:53 pm 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:48 am
Posts: 2432
I ran a quick test with holy armor - rabies does not benefit from the Sanctuary aura. Unfortunately, it isn't a way to get past all the psn immune undead :(

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 8:22 am 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:26 am
Posts: 490
Location: Richmond Va
I think I would max spirit wolves if I made another rabies druid.

20oak
20spirit wolves
20creeper
20lycan
20rabies

Spirit wolves have a pretty low cool-down timer and thus can be spammed in a similar style as spirit blades. This could be a make or break skill in some solo boss fights.

When I leveled my druid, I went the +skills route. This made my summon tanks much more durable, and boosted my rabies damage at the same time.

_________________
I was never more at home than I was in battle. - Solomon Kane


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:28 pm 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:48 am
Posts: 2432
Quick update, this character is ripping through A3 Nightmare without much difficulty. Seems like a very poison friendly act. The druid is now 73 and does 82-83k dmg over 8 seconds ~ or about 10k DPS. Here is a quick rundown of the skills and gear:

7500 HP when shifted (with oak)
5600 HP when shifted (without oak)

Plague Bearer Sword - brings my dmg up from 46k to 83K. Very powerful.
Silks of the Victor - pretty good fit for this character
Orphan's call set gloves, belt and shield
+3 shapeshifting coronet with resists and 4x perf ruby
+2 shapeshifting amulet
2x Druid skill rings
14% psn crafted boots
Sigon/Dark Clan cudgel on swap for casting buffs.

Skills (with items)
Oak: lvl16
psn creeper: lvl26 (max)
Grizzly: lvl11
One point in HoW, Spirit of Barbs and Carrion Creeper

Werewolf: lvl10 (one point)
Lycan: lvl24
Rabies: lvl35 (max)
Fury: lvl10

Currently Grizzly is being really helpful when going solo since I don't like taking a lot of hits. I just solo'd general for items and the basic pattern was: [a] cast grizzly [b] make him green [c] let him play with grizzly until it was time to make him green again. It isn't the fastest killing machine, but it is pretty easy and effective. Against non-mana burn bosses I can melee a bit more, but with mana-burn I can't recast bear that way and then the boss chases me and that is much less fun.

So far, I would say that dmg isn't a real problem in A3 NM. My gear is pretty strong, but I am sure that people could make it stronger. I haven't socketted the Plague Bearer, I could craft better boots, I could use a different shield, etc, etc. I am over leveld though - by 73, I should probably be in A4 but I just can't seem to slow down my experience. I leveled just looking for the Upper Kurast WP and killing General got me about a 1/6th of the way to the next lvl. Experience seems to move too quickly :P

Will see what A4 NM brings.

I do have to say, I can't imagine how strong this character must have been with the carrion bug. You would have much more points to spend AND a vastly higher damage. Nightmare must have been a breeze.

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:57 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:42 am
Posts: 45
Here's a bit more for the nerfed rabies discussion:

I was looking for a way to measure the nerfed rabies build vs other comparable builds because it doesn't really matter how the new skill compares to the old, only compared to other current builds, at least balance speaking. Poison necro is the closest thing to a rabies druid: both have high damage applied via a melee attack, pets and a party friendly skill. All number's are taken from perfect gear (debatably) and assumed to be soloing.

Poison strike and rabies work a little differently because rabies has a small aoe component. This only has an effect on trash (maybe select boss fights like ancs), but between pets, mercs, and the variety of aoe skills available to a necro I think this difference can be overlooked.

Both classes have an assortment of pets which will increase the survivability of the character. For 24 pts of investment the necro can have 4 golems with 10-20k life per golem (with cta bo) and for 20 pts can summon 4 swords with 9k life. The druid has a bear that has 34k life (oak and cta bo) for a 20pt investment and, for the rabies build I tested, can have 3 wolves with 8 pts spent and 10k life. I'm not sure on the specific recast times for the summons, but golems have a long recast time, and is usually difficult to keep them up on boss fights, whereas swords have a much shorted recast time, and keeping them up against bosses is feasible. I would assume druid summons follow a similar pattern, although I do not have as much experience with them.

Based on the above, a rabies druid and poison necro are very comparable. The main difference between them is their party friendly ability. The necro has curses, the two most notable being amp and LR (maybe decrep). It takes 1 skill point for a necro to have a good amp and 7 (counting amp and prereqs) to get LR, anymore than 1 in each curse is generally seen as a waste. Looking primarily at soloing bosses (which both classes are/were known to be good at), LR is the cursed assumed to be used. LR significantly increases the damage he does, and has the possibility to break poison immunities. Necros also have bone armor which with 1 hard point and marrows absorbs 2800 dmg. The druid has oak, which for a 20 pt investment provided a ~+200% life (with +skills). Personally, I feel for these builds LR and bone armor for 8pts is significantly better than 20pts for oak.

Now the most important part, damage. I got a poison necro up to 482k damage over 8.4s, or 57.4k dps. The druid did 392k over 9.3s, or 42.2k dps. The difference becomes greater when both passive pierce and LR are applied. It seemed much easier for the necro to get pierce (91% from gear vs 68% for druid). The minimum damage a poison necro can do to a non-immune enemy is 443k / 52.8k dps (99% poison res) where the druid will only be doing 247k / 26.5 dps, which is about half the damage. If the necro were to use LR on the same foe the minimum jumps to 819k / 97.5dps (79% LR). Both builds were built to maximize damage while still be survivable. The necro had 200-250 (185 is max in hell) res all, 75% block and 6.7k life self buffed where as the druid had 180-280 res all, 29% block and 26.5k life. For a comparison on damage to another class, it is very common for end game ww barb to do 40k+ damage with a 4 fpa speed, for ~240k+ dps.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:58 am 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:48 am
Posts: 2432
A3 NM is done and on to A4. Again, not having problems with damage. I was able to kill seraph's in A3 Durance with the poison damage and they are pretty tough buggers. Similar story with Maraliths in River of Flame, they are going down without too much trouble. Seems like damage is fine for Nightmare and perhaps it will just start to fizzle out in Hell. Will have to see.

The only real bummer about this build is that my weapon choice is pretty much already done. I don't see anything out performing Plague Bearer as the +6 rabies really makes such an impact. With a high %synergy from creeper each point of rabies really adds up. Nedder is going to give me a runemaster, so I will see if the boost of -psn resists from emeralds makes up for the lost 3 points - otherwise it may be that an upgraded PlagueBearer is a pretty solid choice as a near end game weapon. Similar story with my merc and Pus Spitter. The LR curse goes off quite a bit from her and that is incredibly valuable to this build. I just don't see switching to a different weapon for her.

I am starting to run in to leeching issues though as my physical dmg isn't very high. I put Naj's staff on switch to deal with poison immunes and it is amazing how much more I leech with the high dmg of that weapon.

I read a rather odd statement about rabies that I find hard to believe. The theorycraft sugggests that the rabies dmg is impacted by whatever weapon you have in hand. For example, if you attack a monster with a normal weapon and then switch to say deathweb, the poison rate will jump up to the deathweb value. Needless to say, that is not how things in Diablo normally work - but with the oddities of rabies I suppose anything is possible. The implication for this build is that I can't stab someone with my plague bearer and then switch to Naj's to beat them down as I would lose significant psn dmg by doing that. I may have to try and test this out because if that is true it is a real bummer.

Regarding Necro vs Druid, I think it is more a case of apples and oranges. While they both do poison damage, they both play so differently that it is hard to compare them numerically. I don't think that hte druid is a weaker character simply because he does notably less damage than the necro, nor do I think that the necro is that much stronger because he does more damage. I think you need to look at them as a whole and evaluate what they can do individually.

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:14 pm 
Game Server Host
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:33 am
Posts: 4291
your equip cant be upgraded very much for hell now so your damage wont show a significant increase for hell. add in the fact that the resistances are so much higher in hell and you're gonna run into some major problems soon.

_________________
Bron wrote:
There's no cure for being a cunt.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 11:18 pm 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:48 am
Posts: 2432
Druid is in A5 now. Act 4 was a pretty good act for him, doing waypoints was pretty easy - just hop in smack a few things and then go back to town. By the time I got back to the waypoint, 8 seconds had pretty much gone by and everything was either dead or dying. About the most challenging thing I would run in to was a pack of unique Maraliths - they took a long time. Then again, they are a pain for just about everyone.

Geared myself up pretty strong safety gear for Diablo, Hellforge Drago and Lazarus. I put 3 rubies in Orphan's call set shield, used 1 dwarf and popped on Steelshade. Allowed me to cruise along and just smack each of those guys every 8 seconds to finish them off. For Diablo, Psyfreqz's hammerdin probably did most of the damage but I kept Diablo nice and green to help chip in.

Just picked up all the WPS in A5 and didn't run in to much of a problem. I have 3 moonstones in my Naj's staff now so poison immune monsters aren't much of an issue. 4 frame fury with that massive dmg of that staff knocks them down pretty quick. I am about a starstone away from 1 more moonstone and then I can hit 3 frames which should make for a pretty solid "Plan B" weapon. Most things are still dying in about 8 seconds to my poison. This guy is great for Frozen Tundra, all the little monsters run around and poision everything as they tumble together.

I would say it is pretty clear that this character is just fine in Normal and Nightmare. If anything, I am a little stronger in NM than I was in normal - so the only remaining question is how will Hell be. I might just cheese my way to Hell since the Baal quest is a major time sink. Kind of hate that quest to be honest - devoting 3-4 hours of solid gaming just isn't something I can casually do now a days.

The other remaining question is item balancing. I was rather suprised that 14% psn craft boots beat out silkweave. I lost about 5k dmg by using silks, which suprises me since psn creeper gives a 33% synergy. Nedder was kind enough to give me a RuneMaster and I think that might be able to give my Plague Bearer a run for its money when socketted with 4 moonstones. Especially in Hell when monster resists start to spike. Problem now is finding an additional 50 strength so that I can pick the damn heavy thing up!

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 11:52 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:45 am
Posts: 62
enjoying reading your logs of this character, was browsing through the items yesterday and saw a few nice poison ones that will surely be in your future inventory.

totally agree about the baal quest, massive PITA... keep up the good work.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 3:21 pm 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:48 am
Posts: 2432
As I look at that heavy Ettin Axe and ponder how I am going to pick it up, I come back to the old question of putting points in strength or relying on Amethysts. Been a while since I played, so I redid the math:

Starting Life: 7338 (in wolf form with oak)
Put in point in Vitality: 7349 (increase of 11 life)
Put perf ruby in armor: 7517 (increase of 168 life)

A perfect Amethyst will give me 16 strength, which translates in to 11 x 16 = 176 life using the information above. That's an extra 8pts of life, so it looks like inserting amethysts is going to be the way to go. I imagine that may even improve as I get more and more skill gear to boost my oak and lycan.

Update: White Dragon dead. Did it with a psn necro which is interesting. I have no idea how well our psn played together but the White dragon died pretty easily. Also seemed a lot scarier for him to run in and stab the dragon (he died once) than it was for me. Probably because I am a big hulking wolf and he is a skinny white dude.

Dragon dropped me a starstone amethyst. Now I have a debate. Toss 2 amethysts in the Spirit Keeper that fell for me in early A5 or finish off my Naj staff to hit 3 frame fury. I think I will probably go for the str boost.

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:15 am 

Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:45 am
Posts: 62
what about putting a wirts jewel in the axe? -33% req with some other stats.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:06 am 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:48 am
Posts: 2432
scump wrote:
what about putting a wirts jewel in the axe? -33% req with some other stats.


I generally shy away from tactics like that. I figure I can get +str from other places, but getting -psn resists is not anywhere as near as easy so I would rather leave one of those socket slots for an emerald.

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 3:21 pm 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:48 am
Posts: 2432
Boosted my str enough to pick up the Ettin Axe and did some quick math to compare it to my Plague Bearer:

Plague Bearer Setup: 76k, -26% psn resist
RuneMaster: 58k, -50% psn resist

In terms of effective damage that translates in to:

Code:
psn resist      effective damage   
99%       20,520     29,580
75%       38,760     43,500
50%       57,760     58,000
25%       76,760     72,500
0%       95,760     87,000


THe first column is my target's poison resistance (ie. how much psn resist the monster I am hitting has) and the Plague Bearer is the left colum and the Runemaster on the right. So it looks like 50% is the breakpoint. I would say that Plague is probably the better choice in norm/nm but in Hell with the higher resist penalty Runemaster is going to outshine it. Especially since I can possibly upgrade it further with pestilence eyes or facets. I did the math with just 4x moonstones.

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:44 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 3:11 am
Posts: 165
I found the runemaster just slightly better. Does the -psn res carry with the rabies though? It may only apply to the target.

It's faster than plague (IIRC), which makes it less annoying to use. Plague is so slow it is annoying.

The real jump is moving to the Time staff. In an eth Shillelagh it does around 800-1000 dmg and hits at 4fpa for fury. The LR makes rabies awesome, rather than merely good. It's a good party wpn if you play with other elemental characters and no nec is around.

Is fury capped at 4fpa? Time definitely isn't as fast as reaver with 140ias.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:29 pm 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:48 am
Posts: 2432
nedder wrote:
Does the -psn res carry with the rabies though? It may only apply to the target.


In theory it does, although Rabies is very fuzzy when it comes to theory. I haven't really been able to tell one way or the other because random monsters tend to die pretty steadily to my poison. Would probably take modified monsters in single player tests to really be sure and that is beyond my ability.


nedder wrote:
The real jump is moving to the Time staff. In an eth Shillelagh it does around 800-1000 dmg and hits at 4fpa for fury. The LR makes rabies awesome, rather than merely good. It's a good party wpn if you play with other elemental characters and no nec is around.


I kinda doubt that I will ever track down a zod to make a Time, but so far having Pus Spitter on my merc seems to be doing the trick.

Fury does not appear to be capped at 4 frame, I am now at 3 frame with my Naj staff. Moves pretty fast.

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 7:06 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 2:47 am
Posts: 13
blue_myriddn wrote:
I read a rather odd statement about rabies that I find hard to believe. The theorycraft sugggests that the rabies dmg is impacted by whatever weapon you have in hand. For example, if you attack a monster with a normal weapon and then switch to say deathweb, the poison rate will jump up to the deathweb value. Needless to say, that is not how things in Diablo normally work - but with the oddities of rabies I suppose anything is possible. The implication for this build is that I can't stab someone with my plague bearer and then switch to Naj's to beat them down as I would lose significant psn dmg by doing that. I may have to try and test this out because if that is true it is a real bummer.



From what I understand about Rabies (from Diablo 2 PvP) is that if you use Rabies and then switch to Death's Web, the enemy poison resist will stick with the Death's Web, but the Poison damage will still be the same as from your regular Rabies. I haven't tested this explicitly, but this is assumed to be true in regular D2 Expansion.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:09 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 7:13 pm
Posts: 112
screenies please.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:52 pm 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:48 am
Posts: 2432
Druid is in Hell now. Baal quest was pretty straight forward, I was with a strong party, so it is hard to know just how much of a contribution I was making. At the very least, running Spirit of Barbs was helpful and I do think my poison was handy against Darkness given that he teles all over the place which reduces DPS of melee charactes as they are running 99% of the time.

A1 Hell is not suprisingly very easy. Most random trash monsters die in a single infection of rabies and unique packs after a few infections. I am not noticing much of a resist problem yet and have still been using my plague bearer most of the time for the massive +skill boost. I am still in the 70k-80k dmg range over 8 seconds.

I am wearing Aldur's armor and boots now and that combo is awesome. The -20% psn resist on the boots may be helping me to not notice the resist jump in Hell. Perhaps more importantly though is the 25% dmg to mana on the boots. This helps tremendously against mana burners. Even though rabies only costs a puny 4 mana, it can be a pain to have enough mana to infect things and I used to rely on mana pots a lot more. Now though, I get a large chunk of mana returned when I am in those hotspots and that is super handy. Great against bosses too as it gives me the mana to recast my summons. I highly recomend using %dmg to mana items for other rabies druids.

I am running in to Attack Rating issues now and then, and have kept a Demon Limb around for the Chant boost. Seems to help out and might be a good recomendation before hitting bosses.

I fired up a solo game and decided to use King Leo as a test victim to see how this guy performs against Hell bosses. With a bit of patience and 15-20 juvs, King Leo fell to my druid without too much trouble. The big trick is summons to keep him occupied and then run in every 8 seconds to infect him. The ability to do damage from far away makes this build pretty viable against simple bosses. Went MUCH smoother when I had Lower Resist on him from my merc though, so I think I may need to equip Medusa's Gaze (10% ctc lvl6 Lower Resist when struck) on this guy as mercs are unreliable. While certainly not a power house, I felt fairly decent about how he did against Leo at lvl87.

While he is doing alright, I do think that a buff to the skill is probably a good idea to make him a little more palatable to the general community. I am leaning now towards something like a 5% synergy on the Werewolf and Werebear skills. I like that idea for two reasons:

1. It is more useful to put points in than Raven or Spirit of Barbs as it increases your attack rating slightly and that is important for a build that wants to run in, hit the boss and run out as you REALLY want that one hit to land.

2. It would allow someone to "double dip" and max out both WereWolf and WereBear if they wanted super damage. This would come at a cost to their Summons though which to me introduces a good strategic decision. Do you go for safety and have strong recastable summons or do you pump your damage?

I also think this build could be strengthened through some more powerful runewords. Venom (Tal, Dol, Mal) is a complete waste right now but could be retooled for rabies druids as can Famine (Fal, Ohm, Ort, Ber) which is useless to physical based druids as [a] it isn't indestructable [b] it isn't fast enough. Since rabies druids are the only shapeshifters who really don't care about speed, runewords really are a viable option for them. Currently, other than Time - the runewords all suck.

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:29 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:45 am
Posts: 62
regarding runewords i know it requires a sur/ohm but will you be trying bramble on your druid? 20-40% poison dmg would give a massive boost to rabies yer?

now i think about it, requiring those 2 high runes, its a pretty big gamble having it being 20-40%... imagine if you had to do it like 5 times before you even got 30+%....that would hurt!


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:46 pm 
Game Server Host
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:33 am
Posts: 4291
i already made one this season and got 26%.... its 25-50% iirc

80k rabies over 8 secs aint gonna cut it later into hell. The point of rabies was a boss killer, slow but safe. almost every other char will have a minimum of 40k dps by that stage. Infact my necro is level 48 and he at 47k psn strike over 7secs with 2 15 point synergies still to go + lower resists and 4 recastable tanks when needed. 80k over 8 secs is kinda laughable by hell dont you think. You have played poison builds before you must be able to see just how weak 10k dps in hell is, especialy when you have no skill of your own to lower resists and the resistances are so high

_________________
Bron wrote:
There's no cure for being a cunt.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:42 pm 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:48 am
Posts: 2432
To be honest, this guy is quite comparable to the psn necro that I played even though the necro did significantly much more damage. As I have said repeatedly, it isn't just about comparing two numbers - you need to look at the entire package.

So far 80k/8 seconds is working out just fine in A1 Hell, I was even able to manage a few sub-bosses. I have to say the one thing that has been sort of tedious is a pack of unique berserkers, but if memory serves those things are freakin tedious with any build.

The ability to easily switch to a high physical dmg weapon and take advantage of speed has allowed me to manage psn immunes with ease. Things like the Countess quest which stopped my necro in his tracks because the Blood Orb is psn immune, or packs of unique ghosts that are poison immune simply aren't a problem. Just hit W and smack them down.

My gear isn't even at its peak. By lvl87, someone go definetly gear this rabies druid much better. I ran in to a mid-90's rabies druid who was doing I believe 120k and said that he was able to cruise through Shrenk runs. I have intentionally avoided going too crazy with gear though to get a feel for a more moderate view. While I could ask around and try to complete Aldur's set for more power, I think I should wait until a little further in to Hell before boosting my power by that much.

Bramble certainly would be neat, but I think my highest rune is an Ist - so no dice there. I figure I should be saving my pennies for a Time runeword and Aldur's armor is pretty sweet. There is also Templar's Might at lvl92 with 4 open sockets. Toss some psn facets in there and that is probably a superior end game armor for a rabies druid in the overall picture.

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 1:34 am 
Game Server Host
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:33 am
Posts: 4291
templars is the best endgame armour for a rabies druid, your right there. vs psn immunes on a nec you can just use golems, its slow but it works.

I know its not about just comparing 2 numbers but they should be about the same really, a necro has summons the same as a druid and a necro has curses to match say the druid having oak. sure the druid can switch to a weapon and deal phys damage, but a nec can put on trangs and tele around while letting the merc kill stuff. My point is that these poison builds should all be similar damage but they should all be a 60 point build, leaving 40 for summons or w/e. a synergie from carrion vine at half the power of the psn vine would be perfect.

120k over 8.4 secs on an endgame build is LOL, shenk has always been a cake walk, you can solo it with a sorc and a good merc. hell, my vengance paladin was doing more damage in 1 hit than your druid is doing per sec when he was level 46 and he is terrible. my psn nec is now level 53 and he is doing 54k over 7 seconds, climbing 3k per synergie point. 10k psn nova over 3 seconds and will will soon be almost equal to your rabies dps. 16k poison explosion over 3.4 secs with 4 hard points in it. Im not bothered that its been changed to a 40point skill, it was needed. the problem is a 20 point synergie is not enough to make the build appealing. The build should have been able to reach the same dps as it used to at the expense of spending 60 points, thats my main point here

_________________
Bron wrote:
There's no cure for being a cunt.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:09 am 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:48 am
Posts: 2432
So - what exactly is wrong with my statement here?

Quote:
While he is doing alright, I do think that a buff to the skill is probably a good idea to make him a little more palatable to the general community. I am leaning now towards something like a 5% synergy on the Werewolf and Werebear skills


Sounds pretty much like what you are saying.

As far as damage though, there is no way that a rabies druid should reach the same DPS as psn strike on a necro. Completely different builds and their damage should reflect that. Perhaps you need to play a psn strike necro to understand that, dunno.

I most certainly don't think that the build needs the DPS it used to have and find it appalling that so many people are upset that the bugged synergy ring has been removed. This build must have been monsterously overpowered with that ring in play.

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:24 am 
Game Server Host
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:33 am
Posts: 4291
erm, maybe you missed the part when i said im playing a psn nec right now. he is level 62iirc and doing more dps than your rabies druid is doing. the funny thing is that against a champ in a2 (serpent things) he was dealing terrible damage. thats including lower res. he is at 85k over 7.4 secs. that damage was taking maybe 8 full hits to kill a single champ, thats with lower res applied too (that you dont have) its also in nm act 2 and you say 10k dps with no self form of lowering resists is fine in hell? come on.

what i was saying is to make it a 60 point build. not 80 points with 2 5%synergies. another synergie at 12% per point.

remember your only just into hell, act 1 and 2 are always a joke on any difficulty, your 10k dps wont be making any impact once you hit late act 3 and on.

Again I'm not saying the ring should be put back the way it was. im saying that the dps should be made to hit around what it could before. even with a carrion, without mass skillers and perfect gear the builds were avearge at best before. Mine was at 240k ish with 4 skillers, anni, heart, brain, mass facets and cerberus helm faceted. thats 30k dps on a lvl 100 druid with near perfect gear. What build would you like me to compare it too? every single build in the game will pass 30k a sec before endgame and without perfect gear. psn nec, summon nec, fbite druid, fclaw druid, mauler, fury druid, summon druid, javazon, bowzon, jabzon, wc barb, trapsin, martialsin, wwsin, bladesin, cold sorc, fire sorc, light sorc, hammerdin, zealer, venger, auradin, I could go on. Every single one of those builds can be at 30k PER HIT without perf gear. The only reason people said they were overpowered is because the only ones on the realm had mass skillers, perf gear and an act1 merc to support them. Maybe you like being carried along and basicaly being an oak bitch but i don't, I'd rather make a summoner or a fury druid instead of having a weak version of both with a shitty psn skill.

_________________
Bron wrote:
There's no cure for being a cunt.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 10:50 am 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:48 am
Posts: 2432
Making this a 60pt build would be silly and remove the character of this person. Do you simply want it to be a clone of fire/cold melee druids? That is dull. As it stands, this build has a unique flavor and that is worth preserving. I fail to see what this character cannot do. You go on about numbers and damage, but that is irrelevant to ability.

Can a rabies druid solo areas of the game to get gear and move forward on quests? Yes.
Can a raibes druid provide value to a party in a variety of ways? Yep.
Does a rabies druid have some versalitity so that it isn't constantly running in to roadblocks during the game? Yep.

Sounds like a fine build to me. A powerhouse? Certainly not - play a fury druid if you want that experience. The claims that the build is broken though a simply unfounded.

I have said it before, but you seem focused on beating the game rather than having fun. That is a self-defeating path that will just lead to boredom. This game isn't hard to beat when you take it as seriously as you do. The challenge simply isn't there. So find new ways to challenge yourself. I could certainly equip full orphans, Goreriders, and death craft a Hammer with crushing blow in it and fill it with amethysts. Then I could pull out a 2 or 3fpa attack and kill King Leo in 1/2 or probably a 1/4 of the time that I could with rabies. But what's the point? To prove that I can kill King Leo? That's silly - anyone can kill King Leo. The point is to do something different and rabies offers that path for people. If the build truly were broken and King Leo wasn't doable, then sure - buff the skill, rebalance things, etc.

For now though - there is no need for a major buff and probably only a small buff to make this build a little more appealing to the masses who have less patience and precision than I do. That assesment may change as I move towards A4 and A5 Hell, but to be honest when you get that late in the game you don't rebalance things with massive skill changes because that will unbalance the earlier game - you balance it with item changes.

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:11 am 
Game Server Host
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:33 am
Posts: 4291
why not make it a 60 point build? you yourself have already said you cant compare it to fbiters/fclaws because they apply damage in a diff way...

If you are saying that 10k dps in hell is a decent build then you are certainly off your rocker. I cant see why you even bother to "test" builds when even when they are total trash you claim they are fine. I'm refering to your old posts about skelemages there. I spent some time reading through the old S & T forum and came across the skelemages topic and you did say that it was a viable build as they were, so i dont know why you were saying you didnt say that for 1. If a build is crap just say it. You have already proved that it is trash be needing to hybrid with fury, just as i proved vengance is trash by needing to hybrid it. The build was a rabies druid not a rabies/fury hybrid. the good thing about rabies was it was a nice change for bosses, even though it took 2-3x the time a melee would. anything can farm trash, hell, a sorc can kill leo/sub bosses/superuniques. I already said how well 10k psn dps is and thats in nm. i dont even wanna think what that kinda damage is like in hell.

_________________
Bron wrote:
There's no cure for being a cunt.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:26 am 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:48 am
Posts: 2432
Sounds like your expectations of "good" are too far off base and there isn't much value in continuing to discuss it. I know you probably want everything to do massive damage everywhere in the game and you most certainly aren't alone - most people in this mod want to have their cake and eat it too.

Skelemage build was playable - but I can assure you that I suggested a boost to the skill. Just because I can play a build doesn't mean that most people in this mod have the same capacity.

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:43 am 
Game Server Host
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:33 am
Posts: 4291
erm. sorry im not gonna get into an argument with you about this but you seem to have conveniently forgot that you had a high level healer "power you through" normal so dont get on your high horse about gaming capacity.

im about absolute damage? if so i would make hammerdins/ww barbs/fury druids/bowzons, that I never make. go through my list of played chars this ladder and last, 2 wwsins, sanctuary zealer, fbiter, vengance/smite pala, holy fire bowadin, rabies druid, golem nec and a static sorc. those are the main ones I have/had, how many of those are massive damage dealers?

Fbite was great, crappy till nm but worked out well.
WWSins are total trash, the damage from venom is terrible untill you hit level 95+ and have perfect gear, even they they are still terrible.
sanctuary zealer, not to bad, pretty crappy compared to a regualar zealer but fun still
Fire pala, ok early game, and not to bad in nm, still not a mega damage dealer.
rabies druid, was useless in norm, OP in nm and good in hell
golem nec, ok all round, just a curse bitch on bosses
static sorc, cracking vs trash terrible against bosses.
vengance pala, dont get me started on this, terrible in norm, worse in nm and a joke in hell, pretty much an act 3 merc whore.

yeh all those are overpowered, if you are on crack i guess. I have the sence to admit when a build is crap and admit to needing to switch the build mid way to cater to my main attack skill being terrible. I don't see why you cant do the same. I know you are saying it needs a slight buff, you're right, a 50% overall buff. Im saying the 50% overall buff should come at the cost of ANOTHER 20 points. Unreasonable? I think not. Unlikely? I think so. Why? because the person we have left the testing to cant admit when a build is flawed.

_________________
Bron wrote:
There's no cure for being a cunt.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 12:16 pm 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:48 am
Posts: 2432
PureRage-DoD wrote:
erm. sorry im not gonna get into an argument with you about this but you seem to have conveniently forgot that you had a high level healer "power you through" normal so dont get on your high horse about gaming capacity.


I thought that everyone was in agreement that rabies was fine in normal. I only skipped them for that reason. If there was still a question on that, this is the first I heard of it:

PureRage-DoD wrote:
thing is, the skill you are testing (rabies) will fail after normal anyway


Your "experience" with the build though is wildly different from mine:

PureRage-DoD wrote:
I played mine from start to finish and it was not easy, they were basicaly an oak bitch early on and once packing a carrion they were good.


To be perfectly frank, that is just sad. I played the character through just fine and was more than an "oak bitch" for the game. Combining the carrion ring for the massive free damage would have made this character ridiculously easy to play. So you wonder why I question the validity of your "experience" with this build? That is like saying that you found a race against a bunch of people on biclyes "not easy" while you were driving a porsche.

So stick with your easy builds and beat the game. Don't pretend that you have a real concept of what is balanced though.

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 12:59 pm 
Game Server Host
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:33 am
Posts: 4291
Quote:
I thought that everyone was in agreement that rabies was fine in normal. I only skipped them for that reason. If there was still a question on that, this is the first I heard of it:


i didn't say anything about the test. If your skills were as l33t as you claim you would have had no need for a high level to get you through norm, just as i didnt when i played mine. oak and melee equip is all that is needed.

Quote:
Your "experience" with the build though is wildly different from mine:

PureRage-DoD wrote:
I played mine from start to finish and it was not easy, they were basicaly an oak bitch early on and once packing a carrion they were good.



To be perfectly frank, that is just sad. I played the character through just fine and was more than an "oak bitch" for the game. Combining the carrion ring for the massive free damage would have made this character ridiculously easy to play. So you wonder why I question the validity of your "experience" with this build? That is like saying that you found a race against a bunch of people on biclyes "not easy" while you were driving a porsche.


oak bitch is short for summoner with an act 1 merc, crushing blow for bosses. You claim to know my playstyle yet you have never teamed with me? Thats pretty funny considering im usualy the one you will see tanking bosses with sin's/sorcs when the players like sasko/kasia/van_van playing the tank classes are running around like headless chickens yelling for juvs. I actualy played through most of normal alone as he started out as a summoner, I didn't need a high healer to carry me. as for the porsche comment, I don't really get what you are saying. He was on par with the decent builds that actualy work end game, some places he sucked, some places he was great he wasn't overpowered, If you had played one before you would know that. You expect people to listen to your view of balance yet you will never listen to anyone else's views on the builds from previously? You don't listen, you just wait for your turn to speak. Perhaps if you would ask for some players experience with builds (that they played unrushed from level 1 to 100 and hell baal/Los completed) against bosses etc. maybe you would have a deeper understanding of how the build was in hell previously. You take nothing on board and have no interest in other peoples experience though. You make underpowered builds that get carried through stuff then claim them to be fine and everyone else is so much worse than you then don't know how to play the build? I guess thats due to your "l33t" skills.

I already know exactly what impact 10k dps poison has on a2 nm stuff with lower resist aplied, as i was at 10k dps there only a few hours ago. It is trash and makes no impact on anything sygnificant. Don't try to tell me it is good in hell because I already know its trash in nm, from personal experiance. Also don't start the nec v druid argument. I'm using it as a pure dps example, im not comparing the builds. 10k psn dps is crap for a main attack

There is no point in arguing with you about this as you have a wierd view on balance. Balance means equality, rabies was on par with most builds before the changes, now its under par yet you claim balance, 10k dps on a hell har is not balance. talk to me about it once you have hit mid hell with a sub par build.

_________________
Bron wrote:
There's no cure for being a cunt.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 1:11 pm 
Game Server Host
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:33 am
Posts: 4291
just out of curiosity, whats your mercs damage at? I take it she is doing most of your damage, for a real test, kill her then try killing stuff in the jail/catacmobs. the test is on the rabies skill so making stuff turn green while the merc makes it look like you are dealing damage is a cop out. you cant lean on the merc during the boss fights that matter so what impact are you having without her just against trash? try blood raven without her, better yet I would love to hear what impact you make on the smith since he will be phys immune. only the rabies will make an impact. Lose the merc and hit him with plague bearer yourself. her magic arrow will corrupt the results

Edit: fraps the fight and if the rabies works fine I will admit defeat for act 1 hell. A vid of a phys immune boss in each act would be the best way to show rabies is ok. just enough to show what impact 3 or 4 hits of rabies alone, just to show the impact you are having

_________________
Bron wrote:
There's no cure for being a cunt.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:09 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:45 am
Posts: 62
Why do you keep saying your not going to argue then you keep on arguing?

You don't like Rabies, WE GET IT! can you stop posting your spammy opinionated shit in his thread, a comment or 2 would be fine, but now you just wont be silenced untill EVERYONE sees it your way, that's not the way things work...

i like this guide, i understand the nerf Rabies received, but im still happy to make one. I think you need to step back a little.

also in regards to normal, as i read it, he was owning everything at current, because he was so eager to test it in nm, he got rushed through, because it had already proven it could hold its own in normal... not 100% the way it should be, but hey... people get keen.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:31 am 
Game Server Host
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:33 am
Posts: 4291
He was owning stuff so he got a healer to come help? get a grip man, are you tripping?

_________________
Bron wrote:
There's no cure for being a cunt.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:54 am 

Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:45 am
Posts: 62
wow you really still didn't understand that?

He was owning fine, so instead of doing it on his own (~1-2hours even if your doing good) He had someone else kill it for him, because he wanted to test out his abilities in nightmare and it is faster to do that.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 6:21 am 
Game Server Host
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:33 am
Posts: 4291
I understand what you are saying even if it is wrong.
Lol, no im sorry, that don't fly with me im afraid. If he was owning stuff it would have taken no time. Any build can own stuff up to Ardual anyway, it gets much harder after that. Its the same in every act, a breeze for 75% then much harder for the last 25% It has always been like that. He knew for a fact he could get past those bosses without a high healer did he? Just how would he know that? If you understood what I was talking about you would know that I'm not saying the result of his test is corrupt because he was rushed past.
I was disputing his speech about
Quote:
Just because I can play a build doesn't mean that most people in this mod have the same capacity.


After being rushed past stuff he can't go on about how he can play builds properly and how most people don't have the same capacity. Thats true, most of the people I play with on hc don't ask a healer to come help when we are managing perfectly fine as is. So yes, I guess we don't have the same capacity. There were other people around his level at the time also so lack of a group was no issue either. Sure there are some who can't play a build, should he be making comments like that after having the build he "can play" was cheesed through normal? No.

_________________
Bron wrote:
There's no cure for being a cunt.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 10:32 am 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:48 am
Posts: 2432
Will reinstall FRAPS and video a fight.

10k psn dps worked just fine for me in A2 NM and I only had lvl1 Lower Resist being occasionally applied by my merc. I have kept her with the pus spitter xbow for that reason and also to be sure that there is no mistake that she is ripping through things. With it being non-eth and not even socketted, it only does 70-147 base dmg. Not exactly super powered.

I have ditched her now and then, she will occasionally die in boss fights like against King Leo and she definetly isn't the one doing the damage.

I think the REAL issue though is your frustration with 10k psn dps. If you aren't happy with it in A2 NM and I was happy with it in A2 NM, then we clearly have two different standards. or:

Quote:
Sounds like your expectations of "good" are too far off base and there isn't much value in continuing to discuss it.


which is kind of why I stopped discussing it with you.

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 11:39 am 
Game Server Host
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:33 am
Posts: 4291
im not saying its not ok for nm, though you are in hell now with 10k dps. about 1 min to kill a champ is fair enough at level 65 in nm. My point is, that wont cut it in hell. I am looking forward to a vid clip of him in action, the smith would be good as he is basicaly a punch bag when you have summons. phys immune will show only the power of rabies too so that would be great.

Our standards are completely different I agree. Even underpowered builds can far outshine 10kdps by mid nm though never mind hell. I have never had a char in hell with such low dps, and I've played some terrible builds. Take my wwsin for example, 11kish venom (8.5k venom then 40% poison skill damage added after its cast) and 3-4k phys, thats 22k a sec dps roughly, not including the physical. Thats will pretty crappy gear and it shows as even that level of damage is pretty worthless in act 5. I was playing her with edd's druid today and all she was doing was making things follow her, didnt make much of an impact on anything besides the weaker trash. My standards are high because I know what kinda damage is needed end game to actualy contribute to a team. makigh things change colour (coz thats all it`ll be doing in a5) while other team members kill it is not fun. All you are doing is filling up spaces that a usefull build could be using, I'd rather make something else or ditch the useless skill for something more usefull to the team.

_________________
Bron wrote:
There's no cure for being a cunt.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 11:47 am 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:48 am
Posts: 2432
PureRage-DoD wrote:
im not saying its not ok for nm, though you are in hell now with 10k dps. about 1 min to kill a champ is fair enough at level 65 in nm.


PureRage-DoD wrote:
I already know exactly what impact 10k dps poison has on a2 nm stuff with lower resist aplied, as i was at 10k dps there only a few hours ago. It is trash and makes no impact on anything sygnificant.


I am sure you can understand my confusion.

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 1:06 pm 
Game Server Host
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:33 am
Posts: 4291
It is trash, I should have probs mentioned he has an awful lot of synergie points to spend at around 4-5k per point. I figured you would know that getting decent summons before maxing out psn skill on hc is the smart thing to do. However, if I had maxed poison skills right away instead of buffing my summons to help with crowd control it would be higher so I see no problem with doing 10k dps in a2 nm its a sacrafice worth making for having sturdy summons. Just because its trash don't mean its not fair. 10kdps is trash in late a2 nm, acceptable at the min since i went for defence and have alot further to go strike wise. you are doing 10k dps on a finished skill tho.

_________________
Bron wrote:
There's no cure for being a cunt.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:10 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 3:11 am
Posts: 165
As a side note, Time runeword had its ed nerfed

old - 500ed
new - 50ed

So before you could make a 800-1000 dmg staff suitable for fury. Now it's a hit and run stick. Kinda lame for zod.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:33 am 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:48 am
Posts: 2432
wow! I missed that change on the runword Time, but that is in my opinion a MAJOR fumble and significantly reduces the value of that runeword. I dunno what Soulmancer was thinking when he made that change.

If he wanted to make it less functional for fireclaws/frostbite, dropping the IAS down to around 70% would have been sufficient for that, but reducing the damage that much really makes it pretty pointless.

Endgame Rabies druid is looking pretty sad with this runeword now nuetered.

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:41 am 
Game Server Host
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:33 am
Posts: 4291
I personaly only used it as a source of lr. Since the equip setup should be a "caster" setup, your ar will be lacking anyway, that means your not gonna be landing many hits with time anyway so pretty pointless. I actualy made it in a basic staff, it had about 75 damage max iirc. I tried using a reapers on switch at one point and no matter how much damage a switch weapon has, the missed hits seriously limit your melee dps.

_________________
Bron wrote:
There's no cure for being a cunt.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:51 pm 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:48 am
Posts: 2432
All right - FRAP'd a battle against the Hell Smith for you. The fight took about 7:30 minutes and it isn't terribly impressive as far as skills go, so I bet someone could do it in 5 minutes without much problem. FRAPs makes my system a bit jumpy so it wasn't always easy to move my wolf around.

For those who don't know, rabies has an 8 second timer and during that 8 seconds you can't re-infect the boss. So you either switch to a fury weapon and beat him down a bit, or just leave your rabies gear on and manage your summons - which is why you see me doing a lot of standing around. Given that when you weapon swap the theory craft is that your rabies dmg is based on your current gear, I find it tons easier to just sit around and recast random summonables.

Pretty easy fight though - merc stayed alive for the most part to supply me with Lower Resist. I started typing at the end and she got herself killed, so you can see the final part of the battle without Lower Resist.

As I have said, this build isn't a powerhouse and a damage boost is probably a fine idea - but really it works just fine if you can solo a Quest boss in Hell without much of a problem. Other builds can do it faster without a doubt.

Will pop up another video that I recorded where I run around in A2 Hell and kill random stuff pretty easily.

Video: http://blue.arimyth.com/HellSmith.avi (65MB)
I strongly recomend that you right click and save the target of that link rather than trying to watch it streaming. You also probably want to view it at 200% magnification as I recorded it pretty small to reduce the size.

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 1:22 am 

Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:45 am
Posts: 62
p.s. another item for your iso, Forsaken Moon boots, potential +8 to rabies from boots alone. a very nice boost indeed.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:44 am 
Game Server Host
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:33 am
Posts: 4291
Nice vid, it seems just workable arount that point, whats your total -res currently with and without lr? the contribution is small as of now but I can't say its not there I must admit. The next question is, can it cope in the next acts without any sygnificant +skill boosts? Time will tell.
I have a feeling you were only using grzzly on him for the knockback, on knockback immune bosses, use dires only. It makes the fight alot more controled

The vid seemed pretty big, for the next one, stick the recorded file into windows movie maker and publish it from there, it makes it alot smaller.

_________________
Bron wrote:
There's no cure for being a cunt.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:23 am 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:48 am
Posts: 2432
-20% from Aldur's boots
-16% from Plague Bearer with Starstone emerald in it.
Total: -36% which is pretty weak.

I haven't gotten around to getting more moonstones, so my runemaster is sitting there with just 2 moonstones in it (-16%) which makes it not all that much better than Plague Bearer. Does make my summons noticably stronger though which would help during battles.

Kinda don't mind keeping my gear relatively weak though - gives me a better feel for things. I am wearing full Orphan's call, +3 SS ammy, 2x druid rings, Aldur Armor and Aldur boot for the battle there. No skillers. I am sure that more aggressive players could have a much stronger setup rolling by 87.

The lvl1 LowerResist from my merc is indeed significant and that xbow really helps make the build what it is. Alternatively, you could get a melee merc and put Medusa's gaze on him. I am seriuosly thinking of doing that now that I am high enough lvl. It has lvl6 Lower Resist which is a good upgrade and with my Oak a merc actually stays alive quite well. I have watched Nedder's A5 merc do very well. Added bonus is that shield has slow by 25% which works awesome on bosses.

I was using bear mostly because I am lazy. He was surviving for quite a while against the smith, so I kept him up. Constantly recasting wolves is the superior strategy, but also more tiresome so I get lazy now and then.

This dmg (76k/-36%) certainly won't cut it for much longer and I will definetly need to upgrade a bit. Fortunately there are some options (OMG - want those boots NOW!) and I really think that there should be a few more options (already mentioned famine and venom). If you do that, and add a small synergy on the werewolf/bear skills, I think this build will satisfy this community and not just patient players like myself.

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:52 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:08 am
Posts: 78
Nice video.

Just one thing I was wondering: why don't you just shift-click pots into your belt?


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:57 am 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:48 am
Posts: 2432
retrov wrote:
Just one thing I was wondering: why don't you just shift-click pots into your belt?


You mean if I shift-click on a potion in my inventory it automatically goes to my belt? Holy steaming cowplop batman! That's awesome info that I didn't know. Glad you posted!

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:56 pm 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:48 am
Posts: 2432
Going to try out the A5 merc scenario with Medusa's gaze and see how it goes. First I need to lvl up an A5 merc from 53 to 85 though. I made a few runewords to help him out:

Image
Image

I also realized one small problem, A5 Bear mercs use rabies which will stop my rabies. I am going to have to toy around with that and if it causes a problem I might need to use a regular only A5 merc instead of the bear, which would kinda stink.

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 1:59 pm 
Game Server Host
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:33 am
Posts: 4291
higher level rabies should win i think. 53-85 is no problem on a merc. I actualy done it lastnight on my wwsin, level 33 merc to 85 in no time. It went like this

33-50 act 5 normal
50-68 act 3 nm
68-85 act 5 nm tundra
took about an hour and a half i think.

as long as his res were kept maxed he was fine at those levels, with oak he should be even safer. I would have gone for a wolf merc personaly as i find they tank so much better without needing to have all equip devoted to lifeleech. I usualy go 1 handed with a shield to level an act 5 merc, I only got 2 handed when i have ik set or similar. If you get lucky with runes i would sink a beast zerker on him to give your summons some fanat and to help with your ar while using fury. I usualy try to just max out a melee mercs dr, res and sorobs and dont worry to much about his damage. you only need him to take hits anyway.

My wwsin's merc:
act 2 might
steelshade - high def, 30 all res, 10 all absorb (possible 12)
Elemental set - 100 ele res, 50 psn res, non phys damage boost, 10 all absorb.
Glassglare - 50 all res, 10%Dr, 10 all absorb
Souldrainers - 10% life leech, (these need changed to either bloodcrafts, holy crafts or i may put the spare steelrends i found on him, the souldrainers ctc weaken is a pain in the ass)
Faith eth Ghost glaive (15% ed) - 3 all skills, level 10 fanat, 20 all res
String of ears - 8leech 15%dr
Sandstorm Trecks - +str, +dex, renaimates, ctc twisters when struck to stun stuff.
Stormshield - 30%dr, 20 light absorb, 50 cold res (ms diamonded)

That keeps his dr maxed, almost maxes all his absorbs, gives him a good chance to block, stacked res in hell, and 6 all skills.
Having might and fanat running really helps my buddy's summons and merc, and really helps my leeching ability and ar. he can tank pretty much anything bar major bosses, his damage is only around 9k but with maxed dr, res and almost max sorbs theres not much that can make a dent in him. I would recomend a similar setup obviously without the stormshield, perhaps switch the helm to a vamp gaze for added dr%

_________________
Bron wrote:
There's no cure for being a cunt.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:15 pm 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:48 am
Posts: 2432
The only thing is that rabies can't overwrite itself. So if my merc has infected a boss, I have to wait for that infection to wear off before I can infect him (about 85% sure of this, as I said need to test to verify).

I do know that I can't overwrite my own rabies, so I bet it is the same.

I might have to go normal A5 merc which isn't a biggy. Hunter gave me a Beast Colosousal sword, looking forward to tossing that on him since he should be able to use it 1H and have Medusa shield on the other.

So far my "luck" with runes has extended to 2x Mal and a single Ist. Go me! I don't play a whole lot though, so it is to be expected.

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:50 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:06 am
Posts: 1206
Mercs cant use 2handed swords with a shield.

Also, I'm pretty sure they cannot block.

_________________
LockDown wrote:
Go outside.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:57 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 5:05 am
Posts: 422
As far as I know they can't wield twohanded swords in one hand like a barb. Atleast mine can't.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:59 pm 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:48 am
Posts: 2432
Utter wrote:
As far as I know they can't wield twohanded swords in one hand like a barb. Atleast mine can't.


well bleh! oh well - he should do fine with some other weapon.

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:11 pm 
Game Server Host
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:33 am
Posts: 4291
obediance in an eth legendary mallet will do it.

_________________
Bron wrote:
There's no cure for being a cunt.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:01 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:45 am
Posts: 62
Oh wow A5 mercs can use mauls too? thats awesome!

also wondering, how come you dont use a A3 merc, for the merc poison aura?


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:12 pm 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:48 am
Posts: 2432
scump wrote:
also wondering, how come you dont use a A3 merc, for the merc poison aura?


You certainly could and it wouldn't be a bad decision. I just was in the mood for an A1 merc instead and now that I have medusa's, I figure that lvl6 Lower resist will trump -20% psn

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:25 pm 
Game Server Host
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:33 am
Posts: 4291
dont ever get an a3 psn merc. on any boss/sub boss/ heavy champ pack the merc will make mass poison clouds that cause major major frs drops for most people. I should have mentioned something before the reset about that, it slipped my mind at the time :(

_________________
Bron wrote:
There's no cure for being a cunt.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:26 pm 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:48 am
Posts: 2432
#$&^%@# stupid merc uses warcry! Which overwrites my Lower Resist. Looks like I need to hire one from Normal and level him up. Why in the world does Soulmancer make rookie mistakes like that? Should be obvious that you don't want your merc to auto-overwrite curses and yet he gave them warcry. Bah!

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:20 am 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 5:05 am
Posts: 422
PureRage-DoD wrote:
dont ever get an a3 psn merc. on any boss/sub boss/ heavy champ pack the merc will make mass poison clouds that cause major major frs drops for most people. I should have mentioned something before the reset about that, it slipped my mind at the time :(

Haven't noticed anything even coupled with my psn/plague javs. But those who are sporting really old comps (read crappy processor) might get that.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:08 am 
Game Server Host
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:33 am
Posts: 4291
I remember rt's merc vs izual last season was pretty crazy, someone mentioned it this season too, cant remember who though. Its mostly the stationary bosses (or semi stationary). maggot queen is bad, as is izzy, shenk etc. Its more notable if you are playing with a summoner/tanks in the group, if things are kept still for too long the make mass poison clouds, alot like the things in WSK that make poison clouds and eventualy drop the game.

_________________
Bron wrote:
There's no cure for being a cunt.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 12:00 am 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:48 am
Posts: 2432
Druid is in A3 Hell now, happened to be in a game when Dury was being done, so I hung out to get the quest to keep things moving along. As people can see, I play pretty slow and I figure I should get to A4/5 Hell where people think this build is really going to just flat out fail.

I did join a party for Ardural though and my druid mopped the floor with him. Granted, it took quite a while but it was super easy. With 2x shock absorbers on, he did didly dmg to me and I just ran in and smacked him every 8 seconds until he died. Since I don't have to go toe to toe with bosses, I don't have to worry about his melee counter spam.

I did a bit of a gear change too compliments of Nedder's generosity:
- 3/3 Cerebrus bite
- Runemaster now has 4xMoonstone for -32% resist
- using Medusa's shield until merc gets big enough to use it
- Aldur boots & Armor (-20% psn resist from partial bonus)
- Arach belt
- Hellmouth gloves (for the +1 skill mostly)
- Kickin IK Maul with 4x uber amethyst for psn immunes

Doing about 89k with -52% psn enemy resists before Lower Reist kicks in.

The IK maul is super fun since it hits 3 frame fury and is indestructable. With my single point in maul I do 6600-9500 dmg. Since 3 frame is about 8 attacks per second, that is 52.8-76k DPS and it really rips things up. Just for giggles, I recorded a video of me tearing apart normal Diablo with this beast. Will compress it and upload it since it is fun to watch.

I have cleared through A3 jungle a few times, for some odd reason I kept ending up in the Great Marsh from the Spider Forest, so I just cleared that out a few times. Actually did the Gidbin quest. I am having no issue with dmg here, especially with the lvl6 LR that kicks off from Medusa. Occasional slow down with a nasty unique that comes my way, but by in large I am cruising through. I actually got to the Flayer WP solo in a 6 person game without too much of a problem. Anything psn immune died to the IK maul bashin.

Past the jungle, Kurast was likewise really easy for this build. Healers can't heal themselves fast enough to escape my psn, so no biggy there. I did General with a strong necromancer and it went straight forward. General with stone skin, so he cast LR for me while his skeles pestered him and my psn slowly brought him to his knees. The combo of arach mesh belt and Medusa's is extra handy since they both have Slow Target and that works great on bosses. Slowing them by 35% makes a real difference. I have a Repaers and I bet I could really tame bosses by keeping them decrep'd. Would lose LR though, so kinda doubt that is worth it outside of party situations.

Big weakness in gear at the moment is resists. Nothing is max and both psn and cold are negative. So far, not really seeming to bother me so I haven't bothered fixing. I am thinking that I can use the set shield Heaven's Taebaek
with its 3 open sockets and stuff some diamonds in there. I would like to pick up a Head Hunters at some point, maybe some monster in A3 has one that he will give me.

I figure I can give the Chimera a go solo, but I know I will need a party for the big Spider. I think I could probably solo the council, although it could get messy. Will depend on if the merc can tank them or not. I think that Durance will be the point where this build will start to fail in terms of damage output. There isn't too many things that I can start to do to boost dmg outside of psn facets, so we will have to see.

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:43 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:09 pm
Posts: 77
So you skipped the most important part of a2? And you claim you haven't been getting rushed, yet this is the second time you post about it. Who knows what else you've been skipping. Looks like I'll be updating my signature to include hell as well.

You talk about trash mobs as if they actually present a challenge, which 95% of them do not. The ones that do present somewhat of a challenge you conveniently seem to leave out or skip. Plus you never mention how your druid does against act bosses, which is the most crucial part of any act. Sub-bosses might as well be considered trash/champs because any build can take them out without much planning (with a few exceptions of course). Judging by your smith video, your damage is trash with no hope of ever contributing in an actual boss fight.

Plus, you're using many items you could not have gotten on your own in the acts you were in. Hell I know I've never had a beast in nightmare, nor a faceted cerberus. You're using the best possible setup in every act and basing your opinion on the build in this fashion, which quite frankly is VERY inaccurate for a test. The whole reason the build got nerfed in the first place is because people's perspective of the build was based around how dominant it was with an inventory full of skillers end game. Now you're doing the same thing in your attempt to justify the build.

Regarding normal, no one ever agreed that rabies was viable in normal, we agreed that it was very bad in normal, considering you have to max oak first if you hope to contribute to the party in any positive way. This is why I was adamant on your "pumping through" the game.

Any build can accomplish the things you've listed before (clearing trash, adapting to the next act, etc.), but we're talking about a build that could once put up a decent fight when it came to significant bosses that was suddenly stripped of that ability unless it is as twinked as possible in every act. This build gets no leech or benefit from deadly strike, unlike other melee druid builds, meaning it should retain its previous strength in trash annihilation and boss flattening. Ask yourself this; with lr and pierce, should it really take 7 minutes to kill the smith?

_________________
blue_myriddn wrote:
I was tagging along with Lord_Soth's level 56 healer to finish up A2 with my lvl28 Rabies druid and letting his prayer pump me through the game.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:58 pm 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:48 am
Posts: 2432
vs Hell Andariel - I wasn't much use as she is poison immune. I ran SoB and watched my summons insta-die. Kinda sucked.

vs Tobial I ripped apart the bear and then did my normal hit and run against him until he died. Was partied with a Barb and an Assasin. I suspect the Barb was the real powerhouse, I ran SoB to keep Iron Maiden off him.

vs Smith - well, watch the video.

vs Ardural - covered it.

vs Maggot lair - didn't even go down there, no brainer that I would suck since I do poison damage. I would pretty much just be a gimped fury druid and do it slowly.

vs Summoner - Iron golems were a MASSIVE pain. Summoner himself was much like Ardural since I could hit and run. This build is definetly superior than other melee druids against bosses in this general class.

Haven't bothered going down to Wyrms yet, but I bet they would be a pain. I suspect that Dury would be doable in a party since slow steady damage is a good thing.

Sorry if I don't have countless hours to game and skip through things when I am testing out a build, but I have a life. Maybe when you get one of those you will understand. I am not saying this build is better than everything else in the game. I am saying that it is playable and would be even more playable with a slight boost.

Good job on the reading skills - I don't have a faceted cerebrus. Don't really use the beast other than for random fun (used it to knock out the psn immune spire in the Countess room) since it shifts me in and out of wolf form. Oh - by the way, didn't get the beast until Hell. Yay! Win for you for reading! Now go troll in the argument forum where you belong.

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:32 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:09 pm
Posts: 77
Now you're trolling, I made a legitimate post in counter to yours, and you retort with "you have no life," when you've clearly been playing this game more than I have this season. Pitiful.

Again, the bosses you covered are for the most part insignificant, and the act bosses you said yourself you hardly contributed damage wise. And this is with LR and 52% pierce, which really sucks if it takes you 7 minutes to beat the Smith of all people. And again, you're only demonstrating the druid at full capacity in each act, minus skillers.

Now for my off-topic rant;

blue_myriddn wrote:
Sorry if I don't have countless hours to game and skip through things when I am testing out a build


And this is coming from the guy who is so anti-rush and bitches about playing through the game? Shut up already, you can never keep your arguments consistent. Unlike you, I actually played through the game this season from start to finish, without twinked gear or healers to pump me through the game. Testing a build should fall under "playing through the game" with it, but apparently for you its only picking and choosing what you actually feel like playing through.

_________________
blue_myriddn wrote:
I was tagging along with Lord_Soth's level 56 healer to finish up A2 with my lvl28 Rabies druid and letting his prayer pump me through the game.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:06 am 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:48 am
Posts: 2432
Haven't posted much in a while, but I have picked this character up a bit.

He is lvl90 now and in A3 Hell. I have to say that I really wish I had gone with my original vision and maxed out fury as I use that a lot. I cleared out Durance 1 & 2 last night solo on my way to get the WP and did so using a combination of rabies and fury. With a 4 Moonstone Runefinder and shield to deliver rabies and an Exec justice on swap for fury, I made pretty good progress. I find that this combination of high physical dmg & high poison damage to be a real winner.

I suppose it is nice to have decent summons, but I have a feeling that I could have spent much fewer points there and been just as happy ~ freeing up points to max out fury.

Oh well....

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:23 pm 
Game Server Host
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:33 am
Posts: 4291
Image
264k over pretty much 9 seconds on a level 50 skill is not overpowered. Thats with anni, heart, brain and some skillers, along with facets in helm and facets in templars. But hey, what do I know, I only played the build from start to finish. I have no idea how the build worked against endgame mobs and endgame bosses.

Considering my level 82 fury druid is dealing 20k fury with 100%ds, so 40k fury at 4,3,3,3 frames, thats 320k every 2.5 secs or so. thats before crushing blow is factored in... As far as I'm concerned thats the end of this argument. A pre patch rabies druid with perf gear and not to short on skillers being out damaged by a level 82 fury druid (before counting cb) with no skillers and seriously crappy gear. To everyone reading this topic. Believe blues theory crafting if you wish, This is the guy who said a magemancer was a viable build. I'd rather take the advice of someone just joining the game from bnet than someone who has no idea what the average build is capable of.

Edit: I'm gonna start a rabies druid, maybe tonight if theres nothing else going on. I have all the endgame equip ready for him so you wont be able to use the whole "you haven't played one this season" argument. Mainly making him because you keep refusing to give me your actual numbers at level 90. I wont be using fury as a cop out, The skill I'm focusing on is rabies. I already proved that a shitty build can clear the game by changing equip setup and switching to another attack. vengance paladin, vengance sucked so I switched to 1 point smite, much like you done with rabies and fury. for some reason you refuse to admit you had to change to a fury druid later on in order to be useful. I don't bullshit people though so I wont be using fury as a cop out

_________________
Bron wrote:
There's no cure for being a cunt.


Last edited by PureRage-DoD on Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:30 pm 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:48 am
Posts: 2432
Dude - pre-patch rabies was a build for noobs. With the ring exploit a 4 year old with a mouse and keyboard should have been able to rocket through this game.

If you need that kind of damage to get through the game you had better take a hard look at your gaming "skills".

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:47 pm 
Game Server Host
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:33 am
Posts: 4291
you need skill to play d2? I have never needed any kind of "skill" to play d2 in any shape or form. If you think playing this game requires skill then you are pretty terrible at it.

The screenshot was showing the damage of the skill at level 50. Not once have I said the charges should be added to the ring again, I already stated it should be a 60 point build with the same damage potential as it had before the changes. Thats his endgame damage that he didnt have untill level 100 anyway. remember he needed 99 for the +3 from sammy brain and +2 from the heart. also needed 95 for anni. through hell he had about 170k rabies iirc. Thats low by anyones standards, except yours apparently. Before you even got that build into act 2 normal Me and another 5 - 10 people had said you would say it was a viable build even if you couldnt break 100k over 8 seconds. Correct me if im wrong but balance means equality and rabies is by no means equal to any build in any form. Im still waiting for some numbers from you, since you keep avoiding the point i`ll take it you know yourself that your damage is terrible for a level 90. At least I can admit when a skill sucks. Perhaps you should look at why you find it so hard to admit that spending 40 points on a skill that can be outdone by a 1 point wonder skill is a waste.

_________________
Bron wrote:
There's no cure for being a cunt.


Last edited by PureRage-DoD on Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:55 pm 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:48 am
Posts: 2432
PureRage-DoD wrote:
I have never needed any kind of "skill" to play d2 in any shape or form


Given that your druid did that sort of damage, I don't find that suprising

Look at the Smith battle - do you really think that is problematic? Do you really think that battle should go any differently in a balanced game?

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:05 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:09 pm
Posts: 77
blue_myriddn wrote:
PureRage-DoD wrote:
I have never needed any kind of "skill" to play d2 in any shape or form


Given that your druid did that sort of damage, I don't find that suprising

Look at the Smith battle - do you really think that is problematic? Do you really think that battle should go any differently in a balanced game?


By your standards, yes its problematic because your stupid summons were able to tank a boss, at that rate I could sit there with 10 damage and pick away at him all day while my summons tank him. Try a boss like Diablo who bone cages you and chars your summons and tell me how that goes.

_________________
blue_myriddn wrote:
I was tagging along with Lord_Soth's level 56 healer to finish up A2 with my lvl28 Rabies druid and letting his prayer pump me through the game.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 4:14 am 
Game Server Host
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:33 am
Posts: 4291
again, he was only around 140k at the start of hell, about 177k by a4 hell and that final damage with endgame gear. Want me to post a vid ov my lvl 81 meteor sorc killing the hell smith in 5% of the time it took you and no summons. its not hard to beat him, I wanted to see the damage rabies alone was doing against a boss. 8 mins against a sub boss is laughable since act bosses generaly take twice asd long as sub bosses. your build sucks dude, just face it

_________________
Bron wrote:
There's no cure for being a cunt.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 9:28 am 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:48 am
Posts: 2432
PureRage-DoD wrote:
Want me to post a vid ov my lvl 81 meteor sorc killing the hell smith in 5% of the time it took you and no summons.

Sure.

PureRage-DoD wrote:
8 mins against a sub boss is laughable since act bosses generaly take twice asd long as sub bosses

This is exactly what I mean by unrealistic expectations. Boss battles are designed in this mod to be battles, not 2.4 minute speed bumps.

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:13 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:09 pm
Posts: 77
PureRage-DoD wrote:
8 mins against a sub boss is laughable since act bosses generaly take twice asd long as sub bosses

This is exactly what I mean by unrealistic expectations. Boss battles are designed in this mod to be battles, not 2.4 minute speed bumps.[/quote]

Clearly they weren't because the majority of builds don't take that long to beat sub bosses. Plus you can't really call that a fight if your cheese summons are tanking him, even though you're not a summon druid.

_________________
blue_myriddn wrote:
I was tagging along with Lord_Soth's level 56 healer to finish up A2 with my lvl28 Rabies druid and letting his prayer pump me through the game.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:47 pm 
Game Server Host
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:33 am
Posts: 4291
blue_myriddn wrote:
This is exactly what I mean by unrealistic expectations. Boss battles are designed in this mod to be battles, not 2.4 minute speed bumps.


2-3 mins on a sub boss is not unreasonable. They can be killed alot faster than that with alot of builds. I think my record was about 5-10 seconds with meteor stacking against nm cold dragon at level 81. with obscure builds its more like 2-3 mins though as meteor is seriously powerfull if put to propper use. a closer example to an obscure build would be my wwsin taking around 2-3 mins for hell ardual. Sub bosses dont pose much of a threat until late act 5. Its the act end bosses that pose a threat not the farming fodder inbetween

_________________
Bron wrote:
There's no cure for being a cunt.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:50 pm 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:48 am
Posts: 2432
So you are saying that you think that every build should be able to solo a sub-boss in 2-3 minutes? If it can't, then that build is "junk"?

Just want to be sure I am accurately capturing your opinion.

P.S. - where's the video of your meteor sorc takin out the Smith?

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rabies Druid
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 6:02 pm 
Game Server Host
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:33 am
Posts: 4291
2-3 minutes is about the standard on any build i have ever made. that includes crappy builds. sub bosses can be tanked by converts and the ones with no minions can usualy be held by a melee merc if you are on a ranged build

act end bosses fluctuate between 5 mins and 10 mins to kill, depending on the team, and if they know what they are doing. 10 mins is about the standard for a duo on a major boss though they can be killed alot faster if its the right duo. If you are used to such long battles you are likely playing with some un-coordinated teams or playing a flawed build

_________________
Bron wrote:
There's no cure for being a cunt.


Top
 Offline Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 93 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 36 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron