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There is no one else in that game except that paladin. I'll let you guys figure out the rest. There is also a method to kill him in 30 seconds, but that requires a few players. Shame on all of you who resort to the bugged barb to beat the los necro.

iso necro heart...lol

Besides that good job...didn't even need to use holy shield nice.

foh and redemption aura.

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There are only 10 types of people in this world...People who understand binary and people who don't.

Nice!
We skipped him lastnight. I think I could have positioned him right but it would have taken a loooong time, we also have another char we wanna use against him (edd wants to be attacking also)

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clever trick

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I see your los nec solo'd, and raise you a

so there is some "trick" to position him properly and defeat him easily? Why is that impressive? Seems more like an exploit.

Same with using tele on strike to stick the druid somewhere. Just using game mechanics to avoid the real challenge.

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People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.

nothing like an exploit, its using his ai against him. What he's done is positioned him in a corner, stand next to him and attacked at each side to make cages spawn then moved back. he has then trapped himself and the pally is free to foh over the cages to hit him while leaving the cages in tact.

The druid wouldnt have been teled over there, chances are low he would land there and you would probs die trying tohit him. He has been drawn to there then the player teled away and round.

I need someone who can spam summons near him without fear for my idea to work. I plan on using a sorc to attack though so cages wont work.

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Yep - that to me isn't impressive. Using limitations in the game engine to overcome strategic tasks in the game isn't impressive. It is similar to the Flamebellow bug thingy (or whatever barb bug people are using now a days) in my view. Clever certainly, but impressive? Nah.

I am more impressed with a team that can take the LOS necro out completely legit rather than relying on any sort of exploits. Or I would be impressed with someone who had the skills to avoid the attacks through skilled mouse handling. Much the way that you can for example avoid radiating charged bolts from a monster by moving your character in sync with the boss radiating the charged bolts outward (useful back on b.net with LE bosses could be nasty).

If it turns out that the game's strategic task is not plausible, then the task is improperly balanced.

To me, it is similar to Korlic's leap attack. That attack is clearly imbalanced. Sure you can use an AI trick to largely avoid it, but that doesn't change the fact that the strategic task itself is imbalanced for that point in the game.

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People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.

Brute force works with the necro too. I tried a few ideas on single player and brute force did work. you need alot of juvs and no fear (risky to try on hc). His attacks at close range are far enough apart that you can juv out of danger but you go through ALOT!

Meteor is my main plan but im yet to be not stoned when i do LoS so i dont wanna fuck up due to being stoned.

SOON THO!

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.load godmode2

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Oh dear god, why me?
This mother fucker hits hard
I'm out of cooldowns

looks like an exploit to me

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“Education has failed in a very serious way to convey the most important lesson science can teach: skepticism”

So... What you're saying is... Using game mechanics is an exploit? AI is a game mechanic Blue. Using it AI to your advantage is part of playing the game. Might as well say: "OH!! You're using the best gear and build available. OMG you are sooooo cheap!!!!!". It's part of the game and players will use the tools that are provided for them.

I'm sorry if not killing LoS Necro w/ a team full of Necromancers who maxed Skeleton Mages isn't impressive to you, but soloing the LoS Necro; legitimately I may add, is impressive to anyone who isn't ignorant.

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A Lannister always pays his debts.

It's not legitimate, I don't know how it can be argued that having the los necro trapped between it's own bone cages so that it cant aim spears or whatever the attack is that does crazy damage is exploiting the limits of the game's ai. It's clearly a bug, this should have been reported in the suggestions threads so that his prison's could be altered to something done so that he cant be trapped in it's own cages. its equivilant to saying using a tele on strike item to tp darkness out or if darkness used to tp out on its own from the throne room is legit becaues its his own ai getting himself outa the room!
You seriously believe that if terry were to see the way you were abusing necro's prison's to make the los necro a cake walk he'd be impressed?
did it even take a potion?

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“Education has failed in a very serious way to convey the most important lesson science can teach: skepticism”

teleporting darkness outa the room aint legit cos you aint killing him and smacking him with a warpspear aint using his ai.

Using the necros skills and AI against him would be called a strategy. Much the same as using a fire shrine on a boss is a legitimate way to kill them

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but I could argue its using 'game mechanics' to be honest I couldnt think of a better example, however a fire shrine isn't comparable to this, you would need to spawna fire shrine and even then it deal only a % of the life. while it is a lot, for something like a shrine, its fine.
having the necro trapped due to limitations with his ai is not strategy. its a method to kill the los necro without even needing a potion as it appears. add chance to proc tele or add a short timer to when the cages expire, cause this is not legitimate. What is more troubling is ppl beg for a harder mod, but then use these kinds of 'methods' to take any challenge out. on top of that there is likely plenty more of these 'methods' that go unreported before patch times and remain exploitable instead of challenging.

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“Education has failed in a very serious way to convey the most important lesson science can teach: skepticism”

dropping hell diablo to 55% life in 1 second? thats alot easier then having to spend 5-10 mins dodging attacks, positioning him, and attacking him toe to toe to get cages to catch him.

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same could be done with luring his seal bosses on whee he spawns and using CE or the thorns method. finding a fire shrine isn't something that is repeatable at will. it doesnt compare. and diablo is the only boss or act boss where there is even the slight chance of this happening. there is like 1 shrine at meph? and u ave to kill mythia to get to it, other than that there is no other act boss with shrines.

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“Education has failed in a very serious way to convey the most important lesson science can teach: skepticism”

which btw is easily fixable by either removing fire shrines or just shrines entirely from chaos, they are not really of any value there since all of the curse mages in there anyways and some parties will have SoB for the melee's anyways. they pretty much only offer teh chance to roll a gem shrine portal shrine or fire shrine.

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“Education has failed in a very serious way to convey the most important lesson science can teach: skepticism”

Nothin but us bugs in here

There is a difference between intended use and, as Blizzard would put it, "clever" use of game mechanics.

It's cool that can solo it, I'd probably do the same thing; but, exploiting is nothing to take great pride in

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Oh dear god, why me?
This mother fucker hits hard
I'm out of cooldowns

no one has actually noticed the reason that this is an exploit, in fact all of the reasoning i see so far is total garbage, and people being pissy because they don't like someone having their own strategy that doesn't involve standing in one spot mashing your 1 button and pounding juvs.. that being said:

if this was as simple as trapping the boss behind his own cages so he can't move while you blast him would be a totally viable tactic. what makes this an exploit is that the necro get's stuck in pathing mode, aka, does not pewpew with spells whilst he is trapped.

finally, after observing his playstyle and mannerisms over the years, i'm confident that pious doesn't really give a fuck what you think of this and only posted for the epiclols.. i doubt he equates any kind of pride to this achievement, especially considering that he's probably legit-killed every challenge in this mod, despite what naysayers may think.

disagree.
The fact that monsters can move is a large part in what makes them challenging. Take Wyrms for example - their dragonflight is the core reason that makes them beat the snot out of many characters. If you can find a way to disable this ability through trickery, you have removed the balance from the game and negated the challenge.



Agreed. That is totally fair too. A lot of people play the game in a style that I think defeats the purpose of it (example, bringing in a high lvl character to distort the game balance and accomplish the task) and if that is what they want to do - coolio. I am merely stating that I for one am not impressed.

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People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.

You can say that, but does that make things like curse immunity and absorb, dr and mdr, resists, defense, moving out of the way, exploiting? Saying X= strong, therein negating X = exploit is a statement with far too many holes to hold as an axiom.

what about the spell bone prison? i have halted the monsters movement, therefore i am cheating.

using a firegolem on a fireboss, this is cheating as well.

when i bonewall to block a bosses counters so i can spam bonespear, is this an exploit?

how about when i drop tons of pots on the ground so i don't have to go to town mid fight (thus keeping the bosses life from refreshing) is this an exploit?

like i said, what makes this an exploit is the fact that the AI actually breaks, not that he trapped the monster.

Nope - not even close to being in the same ballpark.

Gearing your character in a way to overcome a challenge is playing within the confines of the game balance experience. You are still facing the challenge at 100% potency.

In this case, you are utilizing a trick to face the challenge at 20% potency.

Does that clarify my position for you?

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People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.

so using spells like bonewall to trap a monster, total exploit.. I guess I understand your reasoning now....... though i'd say you should take a more objective approach, rather than trying to assert your own playstyle.

Nope - again in a totally different ballpark. IF the paladin had the bonewall skill available to him and put it to use in this fashion to defeat the necro, that would be perfectly cool. In fact, back when the unique spiderbow cast bone prisons it was one of my favorite tool's of choice. I used it on an immolation zon to trap bosses and let them slowly die in flames. Worked wonderfully. That was a case of choosing an effective tool to accomplish a task. Of course, the monsters had the ability to destroy my bonewalls which gave them a fighting chance. That is actually how my zon met her demise, I had thought Duriel's Knight safely caged when he burst threw and introduced my lovely zon to her deeds screen.

This poor LOS necro though is trapped beyond his ability to escape. Much like a fish in a barrel facing a shotgun. What is the sport there?



Once again, I am not attempting to assert my own playstyle - I am merely voicing my own opinion. I am sure that plenty of players will utilize this exploit to gain lots of necro hearts and have lots of fun. Good for them. In my opinion though, it is an exploit and isn't worthy of accolades

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People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.

nobody is jealous of a strategy that you can click lock your mouse and go make some burgers on the bbq and come back to a dead los necro. to try and compare this 'use of mechanics' to any of the above examples such as casting bone prison ect is reidiculous. all those actions you mentioned were using mechanics as they were intended to be used, thats a big one.
Hopefully this was newly discovered and hasnt been the method of killing the los necro for a long time going unreported.

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“Education has failed in a very serious way to convey the most important lesson science can teach: skepticism”

But I suppose flamebellow'd barbs being invincible and tanking everything is ok.

One thing to note, unless some of you have ESP you have no way of telling whether or not these boneprisons ( that weren't coded to go away(?), that are easily placeable/predictable(?)) could be used for positioning (in a room strangely convenient for such a task..(??lols?)) was an intention. Maybe the creator of this mod should go ahead and tell us ALL of the acceptable strategies he had in mind when he made this mod, so that we know not to try anything else..

lol @ ignoring flamebellows and public anger at using intelligience to outsmart ai. clearly, invincibility is nowhere near what pious is doing.

dan: take that necro, haha.
zikur: you dirty bastard, pious
saphire: epic bugged barb screenshot of sc los
blue: you are exploiting bugs pious, i dont like you
leslie: i love you godmode
drithe: exploiting is wrong, but out-thinking ai is not exploiting
blue: if you don't let the enemy land every hit on you,you are exploiting bugs.

I like seeing "clever uses of game mechanics" that people come up with because honestly, they are putting forth a lot of game knowledge, strategy, and a higher level in intelligence than most people to figure these things out. Personally I have never used "clever uses of game mechanics" to beat bosses aside from accidently discovering how badly stacked thorns dmg + amp rapes hell diablo. But it is nifty and I give props to those that figure this stuff out (short of anything related to god mode and/or invincibility).

pretty much sums up the thread nicely.

People who have been to los know just how hard it is to get him to go whare you want and to avoid death in the process.

trapping an enemy with his own cages is just good thinking, it happens on sszak all the time.

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except the last part is wrong, hes not saying that if you dont let them land a hit ur exploiting, hes saying, and im sure even terry the mod creator would agree that you are removing the necro's ability to use attacks by exploiting limitations in the games ai. much different than avoiding them.
ill try and relate it to an irl situation. a hunter lays bear traps, he steps in one and is now trapped. he then sits there does nothign while an animal that smells the blood comes up and eats him. however in real life, the hunter should be able to release himself form his own traps. poor explanation im aware. I just dont see how this can be put on par with 'having max res/dr!'

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“Education has failed in a very serious way to convey the most important lesson science can teach: skepticism”

and if the hunter digs a big ass hole, covers it over then steps in it himself and cant get out, its his own fault.

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I understand where people are coming from when they say that this is an exploit, but in reality it's just a clever, unconventional way of doing things. This is how the necro was made, and someone was smart enough to use strategy instead of some specific build or set of gear to brute through the necro's attacks with a bunch of juvs pot-bombed onto the ground. I don't really see this being much different than gearing up a character to be basically immune from damage (example: dr/mdr on a boss like diablo) or hiding behind a bunch of beefy summons while you amp and let an act 1 merc tear a boss to shreds.

I think people are jealous they didn't think of this. Would I find it more impressive if someone were able to actually maneuver around all of his attacks and be able to defeat him? Yea. It still doesn't take away from the fact that this is ingenious and nothing wrong. It's just a different way of protecting yourself from damage. Also, I'm pretty sure that just to get everything set up properly it would take a lot of work and skill in itself.

ill say it again, nobody is jealous ( i suppose that i know of) I have thought of a better example now, when wands could be gambled, and you could gamble non stop due to wands costing like 10k and selling for max gold potentially you were able to get gross amounts of cash through a 'clever use of mechanics' because as the above poster pointed out 'it was made that way' so its A OKAY!
no.
just like the wands were a mistake, allowing the necro to become trapped in pathing mode (NOT ATTACKING) is a mistake. If anyone recalls how terry felt about the wand exploit (reset 3 weeks into ladder) im sure you can guess his opinion on such a 'clever use' of his mechanics.

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“Education has failed in a very serious way to convey the most important lesson science can teach: skepticism”

Except he's not stuck in pathing mode. He's attacking.

thats not what was explained 2 pages ago, and judging by the screens of it appears to be the way it was explained.

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“Education has failed in a very serious way to convey the most important lesson science can teach: skepticism”

Nothing was explained, you just assumed.

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@martel

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“Education has failed in a very serious way to convey the most important lesson science can teach: skepticism”

Hate to say this but i don't see no problem with someone useing a boss's powers agenst them hell Blue and Zikur no offence but you mean to tell me that in any fight you will not try to win at any means nessary come on . useing a boss's powers agenst them isn't exploiting in anyway its using you brains really. And locking the los Nec is one of the oldest tricks here in hu Geez where you bean guys . Nice work btw man

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P.S. Have I superceeded your infininate need for proper English now or will your mind forever be locked in a perpetual stacis.

If I'm wrong I'm wrong. Way to take my word as god, newb.

if ts such an old trick, it should have been reported and fixed a long time ago.

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“Education has failed in a very serious way to convey the most important lesson science can teach: skepticism”

whats to report? lol, theres alot going on there that nobody has mentioned

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Just what Kev said whats to report . There is nothing wrong using a monsters powers agenst them and man those cages get to be a pain to seeing others use that tactic is cool because i do the same shit with Szask Diablo or any boss that loves to spam that shit.
And man for one its hard to get through all the bs in Los on Hc in the first place but you wouldn't know that would you ha ha ha.

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P.S. Have I superceeded your infininate need for proper English now or will your mind forever be locked in a perpetual stacis.

Not me. Heck, I feel crappy using the Alma Negra on my hammerdin to pick up a few "super healers" before knocking down a boss because it so imbalances the fight. I play the game for the journey though, not just to complete a task.

Again, with that said I recognize that other people play this game to collect shiny objects and tick tasks off a checklist and many use every trick in the book to win the fight. That's fine. As someone who balances things around here though, that isn't the design I am going to push for and I have a feeling Soulmancer agrees. Whether or not the bonecages should be removed or left in the game to let noobs die over and over again in their attempts to replicate Pious's feat is ultimately up to Soulmancer though

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People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.

All good m8. I hate them things really any time i can stick it to the boss with them i do just to give them a taste of there own fun stuff .

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P.S. Have I superceeded your infininate need for proper English now or will your mind forever be locked in a perpetual stacis.

I too.
And purerage if there are 'other things' that are going unreported that you know of, feel free to spill the beans.

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“Education has failed in a very serious way to convey the most important lesson science can teach: skepticism”

There is more than meets the eye to confusing his AI. Only players experienced in LOS would know this.

i said theres other things in that pic that nobody has even mentioned.

@blue. just no. if you were a real player your first char at least wouldnt have skipped pretty much EVERY act boss. Also LOL at "Heck, I feel crappy using the Alma Negra on my hammerdin to pick up a few "super healers" before knocking down a boss because it so imbalances the fight."
If having things made easier for you pisses you off why have you accepted so many rushes etc. why have you skipped so many bosses and WHY, did you use your level 95 rabies druid to do the baal quest for your venger?
BOOOOOO! you have no say in what is fair and what aint im afraid. Especially after you turned to being noob rushed past every boss that poses a threat.

How did you find the nm baal quest challenging?
What about hell duriel, how did you keep him challenging while you sat in town?
etc. etc.
Its all good talking about that stuff but its kinda hollow when you yourself have taken much easier routes past much easier stuff

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you did all that blue? sadface

Damnit PureRage, can't you see that all this fighting is tearing this family apart!?!

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A Lannister always pays his debts.

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"I am who I am. Your approval isn't needed"

Lmao nice one

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P.S. Have I superceeded your infininate need for proper English now or will your mind forever be locked in a perpetual stacis.

feminists...

A wise oldman told me once that there's only a thiny line between a feminist and a lesbian.
Few years after that, a little bird told me that 99% of straight men masturbated ( at least once ) thinking about orgies with feminists and lesbians.

Then I realised that wise oldman wasnt as wise as I xpected.

♥

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"I am who I am. Your approval isn't needed"

lots of arguing

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Trolling LockDown since 14/01/2012.

some people dont like being out smarted

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you've been waitin months to drop that one again haha

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“Education has failed in a very serious way to convey the most important lesson science can teach: skepticism”