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| Frenzy barbs http://forum.arimyth.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1486 |
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| Author: | Zikur [ Fri Mar 26, 2010 10:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Frenzy barbs |
Why is there nothign about them on this forum. I'm making a new barb for NT and trying not to make the easy way out that is ww but i will not do throwing weapons. Im having some fun with 1pt frenzy right now since its the only way to deal dmg before ww but was wondering how they do late game. I'd imagine they'd be able to apply cb rather quickly? What's the best mastery to go for on 1h weapons? I imagine my end weapons would be eth rares? what kind of speed bps would i b going for? and is frenzy treated as skill ias like fanat? |
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| Author: | PureRage-DoD [ Fri Mar 26, 2010 10:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Frenzy barbs |
I had a frenzy barb last season, was really great against bosses but rather boring trash wise. since its for NT I would suggest adding 1 to sword, mace and axe mastery so you can vary weapon types depending on what you find. I personally went with mace and used hammers, death craft main hand and an obediance on the off hand. oath and death works well also. On switch I used a lawbringer and a fast death craft on main hand. Was pretty solid all round even for soloing bosses. |
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| Author: | Zikur [ Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Frenzy barbs |
then why are they so underused? and i understand the swing speed is decided by main hand, using death's set and some dmg weapon did duriel rather easily. What fpa am i able to hit with frenzy or double swing Charakter Barbarian Waffe Berserker-Axt / Berserker Axe Linke Waffe Berserker Axe Fertigkeit Double Swing WIAS [rechte Waffe] 0 % WIAS [linke Waffe] 0 % IAS Frames pro Angriff Angriffe pro Sekunde 0 % 7.5 3.3 3 % 7 3.5 13 % 6.5 3.8 27 % 6 4.1 50 % 5.5 4.5 89 % 5 5 IAS Frames pro Angriff Angriffe pro Sekunde 0 % 12.5 2 3 % 12 2 6 % 11.5 2.1 9 % 11 2.2 14 % 10.5 2.3 19 % 10 2.5 24 % 9.5 2.6 32 % 9 2.7 40 % 8.5 2.9 54 % 8 3.1 70 % 7.5 3.3 92 % 7 3.5 125 % 6.5 3.8 180 % 6 4.1 292 % 5.5 4.5 638 % 5 5 the second table is for frenzy how does the ias from frenzy and ias from weapon and ias from off weapon all stack together? is it worth getting fanat on off hand or merc? |
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| Author: | Zikur [ Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Frenzy barbs |
with the amount for double swing being so much lower wouldnt i just charge frenzy and use double strike? and then if so would i want pts invested for teh ar boost? |
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| Author: | PureRage-DoD [ Sat Mar 27, 2010 12:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Frenzy barbs |
yeh thats what i generally done, charged frenzy then used double swing since its alot faster. |
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| Author: | Zikur [ Sat Mar 27, 2010 1:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Frenzy barbs |
how does the ar work? if i have +ar in my second hand will it apply to my ctc first atk? and do you think i will need hard points in double swing for the ar boost in order to hit if i dont max a mastery? |
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| Author: | PureRage-DoD [ Sat Mar 27, 2010 2:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Frenzy barbs |
not sure on the off hand ar. I know my meteor sorc with ameths in the off hand weapon was lower ar than if i had amethed one in main hand. I would max double swing for the ar yeh and the 0 mana cost later. I would leave double throw alone and max a mastery last once you settle on a weapon type |
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| Author: | Zikur [ Sat Mar 27, 2010 2:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Frenzy barbs |
I'm assuming maxing frenzy is also good? are there a lot of diminishing returns or is it a linear skill? I wasn't planning on maxing synergies of combat skills because im aware how terrible it is. I am a bit confused by your meteor sorc tho unless you have a way to dual wield. What i mean is the weapon that determines your attack speed and the initial attack is the main hand and then the following swing is your other hand and I was wondering if +ar on the second weapon would affect my chance to land the first blow both if it is +xxx AR or +% AR. I believe I read somewhere that if you miss the first swing the second doesnt connect? is it possible to hit the first and miss the second? I am really at a loss for the mechanics of this skill. |
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| Author: | Zikur [ Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Frenzy barbs |
also i didnt know double swing went down to 0 mana, thats fantastic. edit : and again what i mean by my AR questiosn is on my char screen it will display two values for AR one for each weapon but only one value for my chance to hit? |
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| Author: | PureRage-DoD [ Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Frenzy barbs |
sorry i meant my meteorsin. her chance to hit is lower with the ameths in the off hand than if i equip the amethd one first so i guess it wont carry. I think it would be worth maxing frenzy but do it after the obvious life buffs and double swing. 1 point till then should be enough as you only really need to charge with it, kinda like a mauler. Again, not sure on the hit if you miss the first swing, I can only go by my meteor sorc as she uses dual claw finisher. Seems to me tht the charge is either not released by the second claw attack or the second attack misses if you miss with the first swing. If i miss with the first swing the charges are not relesed by the second, cant really tell if im hitting with it or not though since she dont miss often |
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| Author: | Utter [ Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Frenzy barbs |
And yea, as stated earlier. The 0 mana cost on double swing is wonderful against manaburners and un-leechables. |
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| Author: | Zikur [ Sat Mar 27, 2010 12:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Frenzy barbs |
is frenzy the same as vanilla? i just made a single player barb and used an editor for some gear and wielding dual legendary mallets with 117 % ias after frenzy is charged they swing just as fast as double swing? and frenzy's returns are terrible on the increased ias, not what i thought it would be at all haha. 40% ias buff is gonna be the ceiling. is that 40% worth more than say 2 shaels in a weapon? |
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| Author: | BaLooB33R [ Sat Mar 27, 2010 8:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Frenzy barbs |
Yes, it's skill ias not weapon. Weap ias have very dimiishing returns, skill ias not have the same. |
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| Author: | synquestix64 [ Sun Mar 28, 2010 5:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Frenzy barbs |
I have a frenzy barb and i think they are awesome for killing bosses. i went with the axe mastery and used the best axes i could find until i made a death and last wish in some eth zerker axes. gg damage. oh and about ar i put zero in to dex and just looked for jewelery with ar on them and it was all i needed. I you have any questions about frenzy barbs, just ask me and ill try and answer the best i can. |
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| Author: | Zikur [ Sun Mar 28, 2010 12:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Frenzy barbs |
do you experience the same thing I did or is double swing still faster even after frenzy is fully charged? |
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| Author: | blue_myriddn [ Sun Mar 28, 2010 12:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Frenzy barbs |
As far as I know, both frenzy and double swing are capped at 5FPA due to animation limitations. I believe that Double swing will simply reach that 5fpa attack speed faster than frenzy, but end game both will reach the same speed due to game mechanic limitations. There is the interesting question though of what happens if you charge up frenzy while using a Beast so that you are in the wolf animation which has different animations. I have no idea if the skills are usable in shapeshift or what happens, but it may be a way to get more speed out of the build. |
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| Author: | Zikur [ Mon Mar 29, 2010 1:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Frenzy barbs |
makes sense as I was unable to get them to swing any faster, but i had nowhere near 600% ias to get 5fpa with frenzy, unless the skill ias from frenzy made the difference. 5 fpa seems pretty medicore for speed, possibly the slowest of all teh multi-hit melee atks? I doubt i'd be able to double swing in wold form, but ill hav to give it a try-im sure ill be able to use my charged up frenzy, so it might be a fun addition on switch since it has fanat as well as a life buff iirc |
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| Author: | Utter [ Mon Mar 29, 2010 2:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Frenzy barbs |
Jab and fend is at 5-5,5fpa. Fast enough imo. |
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| Author: | blue_myriddn [ Mon Mar 29, 2010 10:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Frenzy barbs |
Zikur wrote: makes sense as I was unable to get them to swing any faster, but i had nowhere near 600% ias to get 5fpa with frenzy, Only need over 100% IAS on the weapon to hit the breakpoint. Don't know where you are getting 600% IAS from, but that isn't the breakpoint. Much like wereform attacks, the higher end is all about the weapon IAS and not the off weapon IAS once you start hitting that upper limit. Zikur wrote: unless the skill ias from frenzy made the difference. It makes ALL the difference. Skill ias is very important. Much like fanat significantly boosts attack speeds. Zikur wrote: Jab and fend is at 5-5,5fpa. Fast enough imo. word. 5fpa is fast. I think people get a little spoiled by the blazing wereform attacks and don't realize just how insanely fast they are. |
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| Author: | Zikur [ Mon Mar 29, 2010 2:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Frenzy barbs |
if you looked at the charts posted on page one, frenzy clearly has 5 fpa marked at 600+ ias. I had asked a few times in this thread about frenzy's skill ias because I dont understand how it works. when you say i need 100% ias that depends on how fast the base weapon speed is does it not? |
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| Author: | patrick_pkl [ Mon Mar 29, 2010 2:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Frenzy barbs |
whats the lowest possible fpa on any spell/attack? 2fpa? |
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| Author: | blue_myriddn [ Mon Mar 29, 2010 2:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Frenzy barbs |
skill IAS isn't effected by diminishing returns like item based IAS is. There is some more discussion on it here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1321 The basic message though is that skill based IAS continues to be very powerful at high levels where as item based IAS starts to slowly peter out. Weapon IAS (wIAS) and Off-weapon IAS (oIAS) is different, but I haven't ever bothered to figure out why. Bottom line though is that IAS tends to work much better when it is on a weapon, which your table illustrates. My guess is you pulled that chart on the first page by using very little wpn IAS and that is why you have that crazy value for hitting the breakpoint of 5FPA. Toss 100% IAS on your weapon though and you are in an entirely different boat. Basically - explore around a bit with the speed calculator and get a feel for what you need to do. |
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| Author: | blue_myriddn [ Mon Mar 29, 2010 2:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Frenzy barbs |
patrick_pkl wrote: whats the lowest possible fpa on any spell/attack? 2fpa? 2 frame attack is the fastest I know of. |
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| Author: | Zikur [ Mon Mar 29, 2010 5:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Frenzy barbs |
it was with 0 weapon ias, i get that skill ias is more usefull but is ther any formula for it? like 40 skill ias is = x non skill ias? im confused as to how i'd use skill ias to calculate my fpa |
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| Author: | blue_myriddn [ Mon Mar 29, 2010 5:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Frenzy barbs |
Zikur wrote: im confused as to how i'd use skill ias to calculate my fpa The attack speed calculator doesn't do it? You may need to figure out what level of frenzy in HU = level of frenzy on b.net and do some work to get it just right, but I thought the speed calculator nailed it pretty well. otherwise, hit google. I typed in "frenzy attack speed formula" and got a lot of detailed info that you may want to read through if you are really curious. |
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| Author: | Zikur [ Tue Mar 30, 2010 1:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Frenzy barbs |
well to be honest I never used the weapon calculator very much, i didnt even notice they had spots to put the skill in there. Now where can i find a list of base weapon speeds? you got a bow speed chart on your site but none for weapons |
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| Author: | blue_myriddn [ Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Frenzy barbs |
Zikur wrote: Now where can i find a list of base weapon speeds? http://critterkiller.arimyth.com/ |
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| Author: | Zikur [ Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Frenzy barbs |
geeze i feel stupid now, was that always where the list was? i know i have used one before last season, but i dont think i ever used critter's for 'white items' so from what i can tell the best end game 1h's are zerker axe and cb Berserker Axe 45 82 2 0 225 Colossus Blade 46 81 3 0 300 what does the str bonus column mean? |
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| Author: | PureRage-DoD [ Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Frenzy barbs |
%ed per point in str iirc |
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| Author: | blue_myriddn [ Wed Mar 31, 2010 6:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Frenzy barbs |
Zikur wrote: geeze i feel stupid now, was that always where the list was? i know i have used one before last season, but i dont think i ever used critter's for 'white items' so from what i can tell the best end game 1h's are zerker axe and cb Berserker Axe 45 82 2 0 225 Colossus Blade 46 81 3 0 300 what does the str bonus column mean? Nope - it is an addition I made this season when I took over critters. I used to have white item wpn stats on my d2 page at mrfixitonline.com but I updated it and moved it over to critters and added in all the armors. str bonus means the str multiplier the weapon gives for the dmg boost you get from your strength. strength gives you an off weapon enhanced dmg boost and how much of a boost is determined by the str bonus. |
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