Just wondering how the math works with synergies. I'm thinking of making an ice bolt build and I'm just trying to do the math to get the most out of the build. I won't have enough skills to max all synergies and cold mastery so I need to know which is more important. How is it calculated? Is the bonus from mastery applied before the synergy bonus or are they exactly the same? If so it would seem that maxing ice bolt and all synergies, then putting the rest into cold mastery would be the best way to go.

Also, how does the +% cold damage from facets and gear come into play? is it calculated before or after mastery and synergies?

Please let me know if anyone knows the exact formula so I can do this for myself in the future.

If you knew basic math, the question would be easy to answer...

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if the synergies give a higher % than mastery then you are better maxing the synergies (pretty much always true). Soft points work in mastery so it will be buffed by +skills, you need hard points in the synergies for them to be effective

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Yeah, I know about the hard points for synergies and all. It's not just basic math. Doing "basic" math does not come out with the right numbers. Therefore, that means that certain numbers are applied first.

I guess the question is, are the synergies and masteries compounded?

If the skill does 100 damage and I add a synergy point worth 20% I will have 120 damage. Now, does that mean that the next synergy point will add 20% of 120? Or just 20% of the base damage of 100?

I've done the basic math and it's not adding up to the damage shown on my character screen that's why I want to know exactly how it works.

If you don't know there's no need to post, unless you like being a douche and posting a worthless reply about knowing basic math.

It'll always be for the base damage, otherwise your damage would scale exponentially. xD

yeh base damages only.

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So, I just did some more math and it seems I'm right. The mastery bonus damage is applied first THEN the synergy bonus damage is applied.

I'm sitting right now with level 20 ice bolt with no +skills. I have 40 hard points in synergies and 1 pt in cold mastery. My ice bolt does 912 damage.

Now, if the synergy and mastery damage was all added to the base damage I would only have 725 damage on ice bolt. Doing the math where the mastery damage is calculated first +30% to level 20 ice bolt damage (78)=101.4 Now add the synergy damage(800%) to that and I get my actual damage = 912.

Now, doing the math based on this, it seems that maxing cold mastery is worth more than maxing one of the synergies.

So a(bc) != (ab)c ?
rofl.

Multiplication is hard, bro.

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Now I remember why I quit playing this mod years ago. Forgot about the elitists in the forums. Someone asks a legitimate question and you want to laugh at them.

You're right, math is very easy, IF you know what's getting applied first. Not that you tried at ALL to help with that.

This is a perfect example of why this community will never have a huge following. Anyone trying to get legitimate info gets shit like this when trying to get a real answer on something.

Hmm, I believe this has more to do with information on how the normal synergies differentiates from cold/fire/lit mastery. I don't understand what this has to do with math.

I once were working a skill calculator for HU a long time ago, and I remember when making the sorc skills, fire/lit mastery was applied after normal synergy bonus and as a multiplier to both the base spell damage and the synergy bonus.

For example,

FireboltDamage * (SynergyBonus1 + SynergyBonus2 + SynergyBonus3) * FireMasteryBonus

The difference between a normal synergy and a fire mastery, if fire mastery works like cold and lit mastery, is that the normal synergies are added together before multiplied with the base spell damage. Fire mastery is multiplied on the total spell damage seperately from the normal synergy bonus.

F.ex. with the formula above

100 fireboltdamage * (100% synergy1 + 100% synergy2) * 125% firemastery
which gives
(100 * (4 + 4 + 1)) * 2.25 = 2050 damage

Compare that if the formula hypothetically was:

FireBoltDamage * (FireMastery + Synergy1 + Synergy2)

100 * (2.25 + 4 + 4 + 1) = 1025 damage

What this means is that fire/cold/lit mastery are really powerful boosters as long as you got a good base spell damage with synergy bonuses to boost.

The thing about this is that those 3 masteries are applied as a final multiplier to spell damage + synergy bonus. If you got 1 maxed synergy then maxed fire mastery can become quite efficient. A spell with no maxed synergies has weak impact from fire mastery compared to maxing one of synergies.

PureRage wrote a little up above about the difference between soft points boosting fire mastery and hard points needed for synergies. That might make a difference.
I'd probably without doing any sort of math analysis tend to max 2 synergestic, main spells and then boost mastery. That gives good base spell damage boosted by synergies to work from and then a mastery to effect it finally.

Of course, whether the mastery boosts as a final multiplier or boosts base spell damage is semantics. It is true what you found that mastery is seperate from normal synergy group.

Yes and this is exactly what I was looking for.



Your math is a little bit off here. Should be (100 + (400+400))*2.25=2025, you added a little too much from the synergies. I'm pretty sure the synergy damage gets added to the base not multiplied.

Knowing that synergy damage and mastery damage aren't just added together makes a difference. At high skill levels you can actually squeeze a little more damage out of maxing synergies if you were just going for ice bolt damage. Obviously you'd want a little more versatility so maxing mastery is probably the best bet.

Thanks for the help though.

Actually, I find this strange.
Wouldn't the formulae in both cases be : a * b * c ?
If it is only multiplications, how come it matters in which order you do the multiplying?

Order of multiplication doesn't matter except in a few cases (Matrices, Vectors, etc). LMT was just being sarcastic, trolling, or something. It's kinda of amusing (ironic) though, since she paraphrased Mustang incorrectly. Mustang's post stated that he'd proven that the synergies didn't work as a*(b+c)(synergies and masteries being additive) but as a*b*c (they are multiplicative). However, Blizzard's official statements is that they prefer to multiply by synergies first (a*c*b). I guess it's posible LMT's comment is about that switch, but then there would be no reason for her post to be written in a diminutive way.

It's clear by Mustang's latest post that he fully understands how synergies/masteries work, and that when placing a point for any 1 skill you only have to worry about making b*c as big as possible (rather than just making b or c as big as possible).

Last comments:
1) +%EleDmg from gear is additive with Masteries and Vengeance (Maybe DragonTail too)
2) Enemy resistances is multiplicative with base damage (so a*b*c*d).
3) Here's a decent video of Vector multiplication order resulting in different results. One vector is the direction the wheel is spinning (clockwise or counterclockwise), the other is gravity (the direction he tilts it; to his left or right), the result is his spin direction. He'd get the opposite results if he spun the wheel the other direction. For those who know enough to think the video is flawed, just remember that v x u = -u x v, and v x -u = u x v, so the video demonstrates that v x u != u x v, which is what we wanted.

You really just wasted a paragraph on me...

_________________
Oh dear god, why me?
This mother fucker hits hard
I'm out of cooldowns