In theory it does, although Rabies is very fuzzy when it comes to theory. I haven't really been able to tell one way or the other because random monsters tend to die pretty steadily to my poison. Would probably take modified monsters in single player tests to really be sure and that is beyond my ability.




I kinda doubt that I will ever track down a zod to make a Time, but so far having Pus Spitter on my merc seems to be doing the trick.

Fury does not appear to be capped at 4 frame, I am now at 3 frame with my Naj staff. Moves pretty fast.

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.

From what I understand about Rabies (from Diablo 2 PvP) is that if you use Rabies and then switch to Death's Web, the enemy poison resist will stick with the Death's Web, but the Poison damage will still be the same as from your regular Rabies. I haven't tested this explicitly, but this is assumed to be true in regular D2 Expansion.

screenies please.

Druid is in Hell now. Baal quest was pretty straight forward, I was with a strong party, so it is hard to know just how much of a contribution I was making. At the very least, running Spirit of Barbs was helpful and I do think my poison was handy against Darkness given that he teles all over the place which reduces DPS of melee charactes as they are running 99% of the time.

A1 Hell is not suprisingly very easy. Most random trash monsters die in a single infection of rabies and unique packs after a few infections. I am not noticing much of a resist problem yet and have still been using my plague bearer most of the time for the massive +skill boost. I am still in the 70k-80k dmg range over 8 seconds.

I am wearing Aldur's armor and boots now and that combo is awesome. The -20% psn resist on the boots may be helping me to not notice the resist jump in Hell. Perhaps more importantly though is the 25% dmg to mana on the boots. This helps tremendously against mana burners. Even though rabies only costs a puny 4 mana, it can be a pain to have enough mana to infect things and I used to rely on mana pots a lot more. Now though, I get a large chunk of mana returned when I am in those hotspots and that is super handy. Great against bosses too as it gives me the mana to recast my summons. I highly recomend using %dmg to mana items for other rabies druids.

I am running in to Attack Rating issues now and then, and have kept a Demon Limb around for the Chant boost. Seems to help out and might be a good recomendation before hitting bosses.

I fired up a solo game and decided to use King Leo as a test victim to see how this guy performs against Hell bosses. With a bit of patience and 15-20 juvs, King Leo fell to my druid without too much trouble. The big trick is summons to keep him occupied and then run in every 8 seconds to infect him. The ability to do damage from far away makes this build pretty viable against simple bosses. Went MUCH smoother when I had Lower Resist on him from my merc though, so I think I may need to equip Medusa's Gaze (10% ctc lvl6 Lower Resist when struck) on this guy as mercs are unreliable. While certainly not a power house, I felt fairly decent about how he did against Leo at lvl87.

While he is doing alright, I do think that a buff to the skill is probably a good idea to make him a little more palatable to the general community. I am leaning now towards something like a 5% synergy on the Werewolf and Werebear skills. I like that idea for two reasons:

1. It is more useful to put points in than Raven or Spirit of Barbs as it increases your attack rating slightly and that is important for a build that wants to run in, hit the boss and run out as you REALLY want that one hit to land.

2. It would allow someone to "double dip" and max out both WereWolf and WereBear if they wanted super damage. This would come at a cost to their Summons though which to me introduces a good strategic decision. Do you go for safety and have strong recastable summons or do you pump your damage?

I also think this build could be strengthened through some more powerful runewords. Venom (Tal, Dol, Mal) is a complete waste right now but could be retooled for rabies druids as can Famine (Fal, Ohm, Ort, Ber) which is useless to physical based druids as [a] it isn't indestructable [b] it isn't fast enough. Since rabies druids are the only shapeshifters who really don't care about speed, runewords really are a viable option for them. Currently, other than Time - the runewords all suck.

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.

regarding runewords i know it requires a sur/ohm but will you be trying bramble on your druid? 20-40% poison dmg would give a massive boost to rabies yer?

now i think about it, requiring those 2 high runes, its a pretty big gamble having it being 20-40%... imagine if you had to do it like 5 times before you even got 30+%....that would hurt!

i already made one this season and got 26%.... its 25-50% iirc

80k rabies over 8 secs aint gonna cut it later into hell. The point of rabies was a boss killer, slow but safe. almost every other char will have a minimum of 40k dps by that stage. Infact my necro is level 48 and he at 47k psn strike over 7secs with 2 15 point synergies still to go + lower resists and 4 recastable tanks when needed. 80k over 8 secs is kinda laughable by hell dont you think. You have played poison builds before you must be able to see just how weak 10k dps in hell is, especialy when you have no skill of your own to lower resists and the resistances are so high

_________________

To be honest, this guy is quite comparable to the psn necro that I played even though the necro did significantly much more damage. As I have said repeatedly, it isn't just about comparing two numbers - you need to look at the entire package.

So far 80k/8 seconds is working out just fine in A1 Hell, I was even able to manage a few sub-bosses. I have to say the one thing that has been sort of tedious is a pack of unique berserkers, but if memory serves those things are freakin tedious with any build.

The ability to easily switch to a high physical dmg weapon and take advantage of speed has allowed me to manage psn immunes with ease. Things like the Countess quest which stopped my necro in his tracks because the Blood Orb is psn immune, or packs of unique ghosts that are poison immune simply aren't a problem. Just hit W and smack them down.

My gear isn't even at its peak. By lvl87, someone go definetly gear this rabies druid much better. I ran in to a mid-90's rabies druid who was doing I believe 120k and said that he was able to cruise through Shrenk runs. I have intentionally avoided going too crazy with gear though to get a feel for a more moderate view. While I could ask around and try to complete Aldur's set for more power, I think I should wait until a little further in to Hell before boosting my power by that much.

Bramble certainly would be neat, but I think my highest rune is an Ist - so no dice there. I figure I should be saving my pennies for a Time runeword and Aldur's armor is pretty sweet. There is also Templar's Might at lvl92 with 4 open sockets. Toss some psn facets in there and that is probably a superior end game armor for a rabies druid in the overall picture.

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.

templars is the best endgame armour for a rabies druid, your right there. vs psn immunes on a nec you can just use golems, its slow but it works.

I know its not about just comparing 2 numbers but they should be about the same really, a necro has summons the same as a druid and a necro has curses to match say the druid having oak. sure the druid can switch to a weapon and deal phys damage, but a nec can put on trangs and tele around while letting the merc kill stuff. My point is that these poison builds should all be similar damage but they should all be a 60 point build, leaving 40 for summons or w/e. a synergie from carrion vine at half the power of the psn vine would be perfect.

120k over 8.4 secs on an endgame build is LOL, shenk has always been a cake walk, you can solo it with a sorc and a good merc. hell, my vengance paladin was doing more damage in 1 hit than your druid is doing per sec when he was level 46 and he is terrible. my psn nec is now level 53 and he is doing 54k over 7 seconds, climbing 3k per synergie point. 10k psn nova over 3 seconds and will will soon be almost equal to your rabies dps. 16k poison explosion over 3.4 secs with 4 hard points in it. Im not bothered that its been changed to a 40point skill, it was needed. the problem is a 20 point synergie is not enough to make the build appealing. The build should have been able to reach the same dps as it used to at the expense of spending 60 points, thats my main point here

_________________

So - what exactly is wrong with my statement here?



Sounds pretty much like what you are saying.

As far as damage though, there is no way that a rabies druid should reach the same DPS as psn strike on a necro. Completely different builds and their damage should reflect that. Perhaps you need to play a psn strike necro to understand that, dunno.

I most certainly don't think that the build needs the DPS it used to have and find it appalling that so many people are upset that the bugged synergy ring has been removed. This build must have been monsterously overpowered with that ring in play.

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.

erm, maybe you missed the part when i said im playing a psn nec right now. he is level 62iirc and doing more dps than your rabies druid is doing. the funny thing is that against a champ in a2 (serpent things) he was dealing terrible damage. thats including lower res. he is at 85k over 7.4 secs. that damage was taking maybe 8 full hits to kill a single champ, thats with lower res applied too (that you dont have) its also in nm act 2 and you say 10k dps with no self form of lowering resists is fine in hell? come on.

what i was saying is to make it a 60 point build. not 80 points with 2 5%synergies. another synergie at 12% per point.

remember your only just into hell, act 1 and 2 are always a joke on any difficulty, your 10k dps wont be making any impact once you hit late act 3 and on.

Again I'm not saying the ring should be put back the way it was. im saying that the dps should be made to hit around what it could before. even with a carrion, without mass skillers and perfect gear the builds were avearge at best before. Mine was at 240k ish with 4 skillers, anni, heart, brain, mass facets and cerberus helm faceted. thats 30k dps on a lvl 100 druid with near perfect gear. What build would you like me to compare it too? every single build in the game will pass 30k a sec before endgame and without perfect gear. psn nec, summon nec, fbite druid, fclaw druid, mauler, fury druid, summon druid, javazon, bowzon, jabzon, wc barb, trapsin, martialsin, wwsin, bladesin, cold sorc, fire sorc, light sorc, hammerdin, zealer, venger, auradin, I could go on. Every single one of those builds can be at 30k PER HIT without perf gear. The only reason people said they were overpowered is because the only ones on the realm had mass skillers, perf gear and an act1 merc to support them. Maybe you like being carried along and basicaly being an oak bitch but i don't, I'd rather make a summoner or a fury druid instead of having a weak version of both with a shitty psn skill.

_________________

Making this a 60pt build would be silly and remove the character of this person. Do you simply want it to be a clone of fire/cold melee druids? That is dull. As it stands, this build has a unique flavor and that is worth preserving. I fail to see what this character cannot do. You go on about numbers and damage, but that is irrelevant to ability.

Can a rabies druid solo areas of the game to get gear and move forward on quests? Yes.
Can a raibes druid provide value to a party in a variety of ways? Yep.
Does a rabies druid have some versalitity so that it isn't constantly running in to roadblocks during the game? Yep.

Sounds like a fine build to me. A powerhouse? Certainly not - play a fury druid if you want that experience. The claims that the build is broken though a simply unfounded.

I have said it before, but you seem focused on beating the game rather than having fun. That is a self-defeating path that will just lead to boredom. This game isn't hard to beat when you take it as seriously as you do. The challenge simply isn't there. So find new ways to challenge yourself. I could certainly equip full orphans, Goreriders, and death craft a Hammer with crushing blow in it and fill it with amethysts. Then I could pull out a 2 or 3fpa attack and kill King Leo in 1/2 or probably a 1/4 of the time that I could with rabies. But what's the point? To prove that I can kill King Leo? That's silly - anyone can kill King Leo. The point is to do something different and rabies offers that path for people. If the build truly were broken and King Leo wasn't doable, then sure - buff the skill, rebalance things, etc.

For now though - there is no need for a major buff and probably only a small buff to make this build a little more appealing to the masses who have less patience and precision than I do. That assesment may change as I move towards A4 and A5 Hell, but to be honest when you get that late in the game you don't rebalance things with massive skill changes because that will unbalance the earlier game - you balance it with item changes.

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.

why not make it a 60 point build? you yourself have already said you cant compare it to fbiters/fclaws because they apply damage in a diff way...

If you are saying that 10k dps in hell is a decent build then you are certainly off your rocker. I cant see why you even bother to "test" builds when even when they are total trash you claim they are fine. I'm refering to your old posts about skelemages there. I spent some time reading through the old S & T forum and came across the skelemages topic and you did say that it was a viable build as they were, so i dont know why you were saying you didnt say that for 1. If a build is crap just say it. You have already proved that it is trash be needing to hybrid with fury, just as i proved vengance is trash by needing to hybrid it. The build was a rabies druid not a rabies/fury hybrid. the good thing about rabies was it was a nice change for bosses, even though it took 2-3x the time a melee would. anything can farm trash, hell, a sorc can kill leo/sub bosses/superuniques. I already said how well 10k psn dps is and thats in nm. i dont even wanna think what that kinda damage is like in hell.

_________________

Sounds like your expectations of "good" are too far off base and there isn't much value in continuing to discuss it. I know you probably want everything to do massive damage everywhere in the game and you most certainly aren't alone - most people in this mod want to have their cake and eat it too.

Skelemage build was playable - but I can assure you that I suggested a boost to the skill. Just because I can play a build doesn't mean that most people in this mod have the same capacity.

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.

erm. sorry im not gonna get into an argument with you about this but you seem to have conveniently forgot that you had a high level healer "power you through" normal so dont get on your high horse about gaming capacity.

im about absolute damage? if so i would make hammerdins/ww barbs/fury druids/bowzons, that I never make. go through my list of played chars this ladder and last, 2 wwsins, sanctuary zealer, fbiter, vengance/smite pala, holy fire bowadin, rabies druid, golem nec and a static sorc. those are the main ones I have/had, how many of those are massive damage dealers?

Fbite was great, crappy till nm but worked out well.
WWSins are total trash, the damage from venom is terrible untill you hit level 95+ and have perfect gear, even they they are still terrible.
sanctuary zealer, not to bad, pretty crappy compared to a regualar zealer but fun still
Fire pala, ok early game, and not to bad in nm, still not a mega damage dealer.
rabies druid, was useless in norm, OP in nm and good in hell
golem nec, ok all round, just a curse bitch on bosses
static sorc, cracking vs trash terrible against bosses.
vengance pala, dont get me started on this, terrible in norm, worse in nm and a joke in hell, pretty much an act 3 merc whore.

yeh all those are overpowered, if you are on crack i guess. I have the sence to admit when a build is crap and admit to needing to switch the build mid way to cater to my main attack skill being terrible. I don't see why you cant do the same. I know you are saying it needs a slight buff, you're right, a 50% overall buff. Im saying the 50% overall buff should come at the cost of ANOTHER 20 points. Unreasonable? I think not. Unlikely? I think so. Why? because the person we have left the testing to cant admit when a build is flawed.

_________________

I thought that everyone was in agreement that rabies was fine in normal. I only skipped them for that reason. If there was still a question on that, this is the first I heard of it:



Your "experience" with the build though is wildly different from mine:



To be perfectly frank, that is just sad. I played the character through just fine and was more than an "oak bitch" for the game. Combining the carrion ring for the massive free damage would have made this character ridiculously easy to play. So you wonder why I question the validity of your "experience" with this build? That is like saying that you found a race against a bunch of people on biclyes "not easy" while you were driving a porsche.

So stick with your easy builds and beat the game. Don't pretend that you have a real concept of what is balanced though.

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.

i didn't say anything about the test. If your skills were as l33t as you claim you would have had no need for a high level to get you through norm, just as i didnt when i played mine. oak and melee equip is all that is needed.



oak bitch is short for summoner with an act 1 merc, crushing blow for bosses. You claim to know my playstyle yet you have never teamed with me? Thats pretty funny considering im usualy the one you will see tanking bosses with sin's/sorcs when the players like sasko/kasia/van_van playing the tank classes are running around like headless chickens yelling for juvs. I actualy played through most of normal alone as he started out as a summoner, I didn't need a high healer to carry me. as for the porsche comment, I don't really get what you are saying. He was on par with the decent builds that actualy work end game, some places he sucked, some places he was great he wasn't overpowered, If you had played one before you would know that. You expect people to listen to your view of balance yet you will never listen to anyone else's views on the builds from previously? You don't listen, you just wait for your turn to speak. Perhaps if you would ask for some players experience with builds (that they played unrushed from level 1 to 100 and hell baal/Los completed) against bosses etc. maybe you would have a deeper understanding of how the build was in hell previously. You take nothing on board and have no interest in other peoples experience though. You make underpowered builds that get carried through stuff then claim them to be fine and everyone else is so much worse than you then don't know how to play the build? I guess thats due to your "l33t" skills.

I already know exactly what impact 10k dps poison has on a2 nm stuff with lower resist aplied, as i was at 10k dps there only a few hours ago. It is trash and makes no impact on anything sygnificant. Don't try to tell me it is good in hell because I already know its trash in nm, from personal experiance. Also don't start the nec v druid argument. I'm using it as a pure dps example, im not comparing the builds. 10k psn dps is crap for a main attack

There is no point in arguing with you about this as you have a wierd view on balance. Balance means equality, rabies was on par with most builds before the changes, now its under par yet you claim balance, 10k dps on a hell har is not balance. talk to me about it once you have hit mid hell with a sub par build.

_________________

just out of curiosity, whats your mercs damage at? I take it she is doing most of your damage, for a real test, kill her then try killing stuff in the jail/catacmobs. the test is on the rabies skill so making stuff turn green while the merc makes it look like you are dealing damage is a cop out. you cant lean on the merc during the boss fights that matter so what impact are you having without her just against trash? try blood raven without her, better yet I would love to hear what impact you make on the smith since he will be phys immune. only the rabies will make an impact. Lose the merc and hit him with plague bearer yourself. her magic arrow will corrupt the results

Edit: fraps the fight and if the rabies works fine I will admit defeat for act 1 hell. A vid of a phys immune boss in each act would be the best way to show rabies is ok. just enough to show what impact 3 or 4 hits of rabies alone, just to show the impact you are having

_________________

Why do you keep saying your not going to argue then you keep on arguing?

You don't like Rabies, WE GET IT! can you stop posting your spammy opinionated shit in his thread, a comment or 2 would be fine, but now you just wont be silenced untill EVERYONE sees it your way, that's not the way things work...

i like this guide, i understand the nerf Rabies received, but im still happy to make one. I think you need to step back a little.

also in regards to normal, as i read it, he was owning everything at current, because he was so eager to test it in nm, he got rushed through, because it had already proven it could hold its own in normal... not 100% the way it should be, but hey... people get keen.

He was owning stuff so he got a healer to come help? get a grip man, are you tripping?

_________________

wow you really still didn't understand that?

He was owning fine, so instead of doing it on his own (~1-2hours even if your doing good) He had someone else kill it for him, because he wanted to test out his abilities in nightmare and it is faster to do that.

I understand what you are saying even if it is wrong.
Lol, no im sorry, that don't fly with me im afraid. If he was owning stuff it would have taken no time. Any build can own stuff up to Ardual anyway, it gets much harder after that. Its the same in every act, a breeze for 75% then much harder for the last 25% It has always been like that. He knew for a fact he could get past those bosses without a high healer did he? Just how would he know that? If you understood what I was talking about you would know that I'm not saying the result of his test is corrupt because he was rushed past.
I was disputing his speech about


After being rushed past stuff he can't go on about how he can play builds properly and how most people don't have the same capacity. Thats true, most of the people I play with on hc don't ask a healer to come help when we are managing perfectly fine as is. So yes, I guess we don't have the same capacity. There were other people around his level at the time also so lack of a group was no issue either. Sure there are some who can't play a build, should he be making comments like that after having the build he "can play" was cheesed through normal? No.

_________________

Will reinstall FRAPS and video a fight.

10k psn dps worked just fine for me in A2 NM and I only had lvl1 Lower Resist being occasionally applied by my merc. I have kept her with the pus spitter xbow for that reason and also to be sure that there is no mistake that she is ripping through things. With it being non-eth and not even socketted, it only does 70-147 base dmg. Not exactly super powered.

I have ditched her now and then, she will occasionally die in boss fights like against King Leo and she definetly isn't the one doing the damage.

I think the REAL issue though is your frustration with 10k psn dps. If you aren't happy with it in A2 NM and I was happy with it in A2 NM, then we clearly have two different standards. or:



which is kind of why I stopped discussing it with you.

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.

im not saying its not ok for nm, though you are in hell now with 10k dps. about 1 min to kill a champ is fair enough at level 65 in nm. My point is, that wont cut it in hell. I am looking forward to a vid clip of him in action, the smith would be good as he is basicaly a punch bag when you have summons. phys immune will show only the power of rabies too so that would be great.

Our standards are completely different I agree. Even underpowered builds can far outshine 10kdps by mid nm though never mind hell. I have never had a char in hell with such low dps, and I've played some terrible builds. Take my wwsin for example, 11kish venom (8.5k venom then 40% poison skill damage added after its cast) and 3-4k phys, thats 22k a sec dps roughly, not including the physical. Thats will pretty crappy gear and it shows as even that level of damage is pretty worthless in act 5. I was playing her with edd's druid today and all she was doing was making things follow her, didnt make much of an impact on anything besides the weaker trash. My standards are high because I know what kinda damage is needed end game to actualy contribute to a team. makigh things change colour (coz thats all it`ll be doing in a5) while other team members kill it is not fun. All you are doing is filling up spaces that a usefull build could be using, I'd rather make something else or ditch the useless skill for something more usefull to the team.

_________________

I am sure you can understand my confusion.

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.

It is trash, I should have probs mentioned he has an awful lot of synergie points to spend at around 4-5k per point. I figured you would know that getting decent summons before maxing out psn skill on hc is the smart thing to do. However, if I had maxed poison skills right away instead of buffing my summons to help with crowd control it would be higher so I see no problem with doing 10k dps in a2 nm its a sacrafice worth making for having sturdy summons. Just because its trash don't mean its not fair. 10kdps is trash in late a2 nm, acceptable at the min since i went for defence and have alot further to go strike wise. you are doing 10k dps on a finished skill tho.

_________________

As a side note, Time runeword had its ed nerfed

old - 500ed
new - 50ed

So before you could make a 800-1000 dmg staff suitable for fury. Now it's a hit and run stick. Kinda lame for zod.

wow! I missed that change on the runword Time, but that is in my opinion a MAJOR fumble and significantly reduces the value of that runeword. I dunno what Soulmancer was thinking when he made that change.

If he wanted to make it less functional for fireclaws/frostbite, dropping the IAS down to around 70% would have been sufficient for that, but reducing the damage that much really makes it pretty pointless.

Endgame Rabies druid is looking pretty sad with this runeword now nuetered.

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.

I personaly only used it as a source of lr. Since the equip setup should be a "caster" setup, your ar will be lacking anyway, that means your not gonna be landing many hits with time anyway so pretty pointless. I actualy made it in a basic staff, it had about 75 damage max iirc. I tried using a reapers on switch at one point and no matter how much damage a switch weapon has, the missed hits seriously limit your melee dps.

_________________

All right - FRAP'd a battle against the Hell Smith for you. The fight took about 7:30 minutes and it isn't terribly impressive as far as skills go, so I bet someone could do it in 5 minutes without much problem. FRAPs makes my system a bit jumpy so it wasn't always easy to move my wolf around.

For those who don't know, rabies has an 8 second timer and during that 8 seconds you can't re-infect the boss. So you either switch to a fury weapon and beat him down a bit, or just leave your rabies gear on and manage your summons - which is why you see me doing a lot of standing around. Given that when you weapon swap the theory craft is that your rabies dmg is based on your current gear, I find it tons easier to just sit around and recast random summonables.

Pretty easy fight though - merc stayed alive for the most part to supply me with Lower Resist. I started typing at the end and she got herself killed, so you can see the final part of the battle without Lower Resist.

As I have said, this build isn't a powerhouse and a damage boost is probably a fine idea - but really it works just fine if you can solo a Quest boss in Hell without much of a problem. Other builds can do it faster without a doubt.

Will pop up another video that I recorded where I run around in A2 Hell and kill random stuff pretty easily.

Video: http://blue.arimyth.com/HellSmith.avi (65MB)
I strongly recomend that you right click and save the target of that link rather than trying to watch it streaming. You also probably want to view it at 200% magnification as I recorded it pretty small to reduce the size.

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.

p.s. another item for your iso, Forsaken Moon boots, potential +8 to rabies from boots alone. a very nice boost indeed.

Nice vid, it seems just workable arount that point, whats your total -res currently with and without lr? the contribution is small as of now but I can't say its not there I must admit. The next question is, can it cope in the next acts without any sygnificant +skill boosts? Time will tell.
I have a feeling you were only using grzzly on him for the knockback, on knockback immune bosses, use dires only. It makes the fight alot more controled

The vid seemed pretty big, for the next one, stick the recorded file into windows movie maker and publish it from there, it makes it alot smaller.

_________________

-20% from Aldur's boots
-16% from Plague Bearer with Starstone emerald in it.
Total: -36% which is pretty weak.

I haven't gotten around to getting more moonstones, so my runemaster is sitting there with just 2 moonstones in it (-16%) which makes it not all that much better than Plague Bearer. Does make my summons noticably stronger though which would help during battles.

Kinda don't mind keeping my gear relatively weak though - gives me a better feel for things. I am wearing full Orphan's call, +3 SS ammy, 2x druid rings, Aldur Armor and Aldur boot for the battle there. No skillers. I am sure that more aggressive players could have a much stronger setup rolling by 87.

The lvl1 LowerResist from my merc is indeed significant and that xbow really helps make the build what it is. Alternatively, you could get a melee merc and put Medusa's gaze on him. I am seriuosly thinking of doing that now that I am high enough lvl. It has lvl6 Lower Resist which is a good upgrade and with my Oak a merc actually stays alive quite well. I have watched Nedder's A5 merc do very well. Added bonus is that shield has slow by 25% which works awesome on bosses.

I was using bear mostly because I am lazy. He was surviving for quite a while against the smith, so I kept him up. Constantly recasting wolves is the superior strategy, but also more tiresome so I get lazy now and then.

This dmg (76k/-36%) certainly won't cut it for much longer and I will definetly need to upgrade a bit. Fortunately there are some options (OMG - want those boots NOW!) and I really think that there should be a few more options (already mentioned famine and venom). If you do that, and add a small synergy on the werewolf/bear skills, I think this build will satisfy this community and not just patient players like myself.

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.

Nice video.

Just one thing I was wondering: why don't you just shift-click pots into your belt?

You mean if I shift-click on a potion in my inventory it automatically goes to my belt? Holy steaming cowplop batman! That's awesome info that I didn't know. Glad you posted!

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.

Going to try out the A5 merc scenario with Medusa's gaze and see how it goes. First I need to lvl up an A5 merc from 53 to 85 though. I made a few runewords to help him out:




I also realized one small problem, A5 Bear mercs use rabies which will stop my rabies. I am going to have to toy around with that and if it causes a problem I might need to use a regular only A5 merc instead of the bear, which would kinda stink.

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.

higher level rabies should win i think. 53-85 is no problem on a merc. I actualy done it lastnight on my wwsin, level 33 merc to 85 in no time. It went like this

33-50 act 5 normal
50-68 act 3 nm
68-85 act 5 nm tundra
took about an hour and a half i think.

as long as his res were kept maxed he was fine at those levels, with oak he should be even safer. I would have gone for a wolf merc personaly as i find they tank so much better without needing to have all equip devoted to lifeleech. I usualy go 1 handed with a shield to level an act 5 merc, I only got 2 handed when i have ik set or similar. If you get lucky with runes i would sink a beast zerker on him to give your summons some fanat and to help with your ar while using fury. I usualy try to just max out a melee mercs dr, res and sorobs and dont worry to much about his damage. you only need him to take hits anyway.

My wwsin's merc:
act 2 might
steelshade - high def, 30 all res, 10 all absorb (possible 12)
Elemental set - 100 ele res, 50 psn res, non phys damage boost, 10 all absorb.
Glassglare - 50 all res, 10%Dr, 10 all absorb
Souldrainers - 10% life leech, (these need changed to either bloodcrafts, holy crafts or i may put the spare steelrends i found on him, the souldrainers ctc weaken is a pain in the ass)
Faith eth Ghost glaive (15% ed) - 3 all skills, level 10 fanat, 20 all res
String of ears - 8leech 15%dr
Sandstorm Trecks - +str, +dex, renaimates, ctc twisters when struck to stun stuff.
Stormshield - 30%dr, 20 light absorb, 50 cold res (ms diamonded)

That keeps his dr maxed, almost maxes all his absorbs, gives him a good chance to block, stacked res in hell, and 6 all skills.
Having might and fanat running really helps my buddy's summons and merc, and really helps my leeching ability and ar. he can tank pretty much anything bar major bosses, his damage is only around 9k but with maxed dr, res and almost max sorbs theres not much that can make a dent in him. I would recomend a similar setup obviously without the stormshield, perhaps switch the helm to a vamp gaze for added dr%

_________________

The only thing is that rabies can't overwrite itself. So if my merc has infected a boss, I have to wait for that infection to wear off before I can infect him (about 85% sure of this, as I said need to test to verify).

I do know that I can't overwrite my own rabies, so I bet it is the same.

I might have to go normal A5 merc which isn't a biggy. Hunter gave me a Beast Colosousal sword, looking forward to tossing that on him since he should be able to use it 1H and have Medusa shield on the other.

So far my "luck" with runes has extended to 2x Mal and a single Ist. Go me! I don't play a whole lot though, so it is to be expected.

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.

Mercs cant use 2handed swords with a shield.

Also, I'm pretty sure they cannot block.

_________________

As far as I know they can't wield twohanded swords in one hand like a barb. Atleast mine can't.

well bleh! oh well - he should do fine with some other weapon.

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.

obediance in an eth legendary mallet will do it.

_________________

Oh wow A5 mercs can use mauls too? thats awesome!

also wondering, how come you dont use a A3 merc, for the merc poison aura?

You certainly could and it wouldn't be a bad decision. I just was in the mood for an A1 merc instead and now that I have medusa's, I figure that lvl6 Lower resist will trump -20% psn

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.

dont ever get an a3 psn merc. on any boss/sub boss/ heavy champ pack the merc will make mass poison clouds that cause major major frs drops for most people. I should have mentioned something before the reset about that, it slipped my mind at the time

_________________

#$&^%@# stupid merc uses warcry! Which overwrites my Lower Resist. Looks like I need to hire one from Normal and level him up. Why in the world does Soulmancer make rookie mistakes like that? Should be obvious that you don't want your merc to auto-overwrite curses and yet he gave them warcry. Bah!

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.

Haven't noticed anything even coupled with my psn/plague javs. But those who are sporting really old comps (read crappy processor) might get that.

I remember rt's merc vs izual last season was pretty crazy, someone mentioned it this season too, cant remember who though. Its mostly the stationary bosses (or semi stationary). maggot queen is bad, as is izzy, shenk etc. Its more notable if you are playing with a summoner/tanks in the group, if things are kept still for too long the make mass poison clouds, alot like the things in WSK that make poison clouds and eventualy drop the game.

_________________

Druid is in A3 Hell now, happened to be in a game when Dury was being done, so I hung out to get the quest to keep things moving along. As people can see, I play pretty slow and I figure I should get to A4/5 Hell where people think this build is really going to just flat out fail.

I did join a party for Ardural though and my druid mopped the floor with him. Granted, it took quite a while but it was super easy. With 2x shock absorbers on, he did didly dmg to me and I just ran in and smacked him every 8 seconds until he died. Since I don't have to go toe to toe with bosses, I don't have to worry about his melee counter spam.

I did a bit of a gear change too compliments of Nedder's generosity:
- 3/3 Cerebrus bite
- Runemaster now has 4xMoonstone for -32% resist
- using Medusa's shield until merc gets big enough to use it
- Aldur boots & Armor (-20% psn resist from partial bonus)
- Arach belt
- Hellmouth gloves (for the +1 skill mostly)
- Kickin IK Maul with 4x uber amethyst for psn immunes

Doing about 89k with -52% psn enemy resists before Lower Reist kicks in.

The IK maul is super fun since it hits 3 frame fury and is indestructable. With my single point in maul I do 6600-9500 dmg. Since 3 frame is about 8 attacks per second, that is 52.8-76k DPS and it really rips things up. Just for giggles, I recorded a video of me tearing apart normal Diablo with this beast. Will compress it and upload it since it is fun to watch.

I have cleared through A3 jungle a few times, for some odd reason I kept ending up in the Great Marsh from the Spider Forest, so I just cleared that out a few times. Actually did the Gidbin quest. I am having no issue with dmg here, especially with the lvl6 LR that kicks off from Medusa. Occasional slow down with a nasty unique that comes my way, but by in large I am cruising through. I actually got to the Flayer WP solo in a 6 person game without too much of a problem. Anything psn immune died to the IK maul bashin.

Past the jungle, Kurast was likewise really easy for this build. Healers can't heal themselves fast enough to escape my psn, so no biggy there. I did General with a strong necromancer and it went straight forward. General with stone skin, so he cast LR for me while his skeles pestered him and my psn slowly brought him to his knees. The combo of arach mesh belt and Medusa's is extra handy since they both have Slow Target and that works great on bosses. Slowing them by 35% makes a real difference. I have a Repaers and I bet I could really tame bosses by keeping them decrep'd. Would lose LR though, so kinda doubt that is worth it outside of party situations.

Big weakness in gear at the moment is resists. Nothing is max and both psn and cold are negative. So far, not really seeming to bother me so I haven't bothered fixing. I am thinking that I can use the set shield Heaven's Taebaek
with its 3 open sockets and stuff some diamonds in there. I would like to pick up a Head Hunters at some point, maybe some monster in A3 has one that he will give me.

I figure I can give the Chimera a go solo, but I know I will need a party for the big Spider. I think I could probably solo the council, although it could get messy. Will depend on if the merc can tank them or not. I think that Durance will be the point where this build will start to fail in terms of damage output. There isn't too many things that I can start to do to boost dmg outside of psn facets, so we will have to see.

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.

So you skipped the most important part of a2? And you claim you haven't been getting rushed, yet this is the second time you post about it. Who knows what else you've been skipping. Looks like I'll be updating my signature to include hell as well.

You talk about trash mobs as if they actually present a challenge, which 95% of them do not. The ones that do present somewhat of a challenge you conveniently seem to leave out or skip. Plus you never mention how your druid does against act bosses, which is the most crucial part of any act. Sub-bosses might as well be considered trash/champs because any build can take them out without much planning (with a few exceptions of course). Judging by your smith video, your damage is trash with no hope of ever contributing in an actual boss fight.

Plus, you're using many items you could not have gotten on your own in the acts you were in. Hell I know I've never had a beast in nightmare, nor a faceted cerberus. You're using the best possible setup in every act and basing your opinion on the build in this fashion, which quite frankly is VERY inaccurate for a test. The whole reason the build got nerfed in the first place is because people's perspective of the build was based around how dominant it was with an inventory full of skillers end game. Now you're doing the same thing in your attempt to justify the build.

Regarding normal, no one ever agreed that rabies was viable in normal, we agreed that it was very bad in normal, considering you have to max oak first if you hope to contribute to the party in any positive way. This is why I was adamant on your "pumping through" the game.

Any build can accomplish the things you've listed before (clearing trash, adapting to the next act, etc.), but we're talking about a build that could once put up a decent fight when it came to significant bosses that was suddenly stripped of that ability unless it is as twinked as possible in every act. This build gets no leech or benefit from deadly strike, unlike other melee druid builds, meaning it should retain its previous strength in trash annihilation and boss flattening. Ask yourself this; with lr and pierce, should it really take 7 minutes to kill the smith?

_________________

vs Hell Andariel - I wasn't much use as she is poison immune. I ran SoB and watched my summons insta-die. Kinda sucked.

vs Tobial I ripped apart the bear and then did my normal hit and run against him until he died. Was partied with a Barb and an Assasin. I suspect the Barb was the real powerhouse, I ran SoB to keep Iron Maiden off him.

vs Smith - well, watch the video.

vs Ardural - covered it.

vs Maggot lair - didn't even go down there, no brainer that I would suck since I do poison damage. I would pretty much just be a gimped fury druid and do it slowly.

vs Summoner - Iron golems were a MASSIVE pain. Summoner himself was much like Ardural since I could hit and run. This build is definetly superior than other melee druids against bosses in this general class.

Haven't bothered going down to Wyrms yet, but I bet they would be a pain. I suspect that Dury would be doable in a party since slow steady damage is a good thing.

Sorry if I don't have countless hours to game and skip through things when I am testing out a build, but I have a life. Maybe when you get one of those you will understand. I am not saying this build is better than everything else in the game. I am saying that it is playable and would be even more playable with a slight boost.

Good job on the reading skills - I don't have a faceted cerebrus. Don't really use the beast other than for random fun (used it to knock out the psn immune spire in the Countess room) since it shifts me in and out of wolf form. Oh - by the way, didn't get the beast until Hell. Yay! Win for you for reading! Now go troll in the argument forum where you belong.

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.

Now you're trolling, I made a legitimate post in counter to yours, and you retort with "you have no life," when you've clearly been playing this game more than I have this season. Pitiful.

Again, the bosses you covered are for the most part insignificant, and the act bosses you said yourself you hardly contributed damage wise. And this is with LR and 52% pierce, which really sucks if it takes you 7 minutes to beat the Smith of all people. And again, you're only demonstrating the druid at full capacity in each act, minus skillers.

Now for my off-topic rant;



And this is coming from the guy who is so anti-rush and bitches about playing through the game? Shut up already, you can never keep your arguments consistent. Unlike you, I actually played through the game this season from start to finish, without twinked gear or healers to pump me through the game. Testing a build should fall under "playing through the game" with it, but apparently for you its only picking and choosing what you actually feel like playing through.

_________________

Haven't posted much in a while, but I have picked this character up a bit.

He is lvl90 now and in A3 Hell. I have to say that I really wish I had gone with my original vision and maxed out fury as I use that a lot. I cleared out Durance 1 & 2 last night solo on my way to get the WP and did so using a combination of rabies and fury. With a 4 Moonstone Runefinder and shield to deliver rabies and an Exec justice on swap for fury, I made pretty good progress. I find that this combination of high physical dmg & high poison damage to be a real winner.

I suppose it is nice to have decent summons, but I have a feeling that I could have spent much fewer points there and been just as happy ~ freeing up points to max out fury.

Oh well....

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.

264k over pretty much 9 seconds on a level 50 skill is not overpowered. Thats with anni, heart, brain and some skillers, along with facets in helm and facets in templars. But hey, what do I know, I only played the build from start to finish. I have no idea how the build worked against endgame mobs and endgame bosses.

Considering my level 82 fury druid is dealing 20k fury with 100%ds, so 40k fury at 4,3,3,3 frames, thats 320k every 2.5 secs or so. thats before crushing blow is factored in... As far as I'm concerned thats the end of this argument. A pre patch rabies druid with perf gear and not to short on skillers being out damaged by a level 82 fury druid (before counting cb) with no skillers and seriously crappy gear. To everyone reading this topic. Believe blues theory crafting if you wish, This is the guy who said a magemancer was a viable build. I'd rather take the advice of someone just joining the game from bnet than someone who has no idea what the average build is capable of.

Edit: I'm gonna start a rabies druid, maybe tonight if theres nothing else going on. I have all the endgame equip ready for him so you wont be able to use the whole "you haven't played one this season" argument. Mainly making him because you keep refusing to give me your actual numbers at level 90. I wont be using fury as a cop out, The skill I'm focusing on is rabies. I already proved that a shitty build can clear the game by changing equip setup and switching to another attack. vengance paladin, vengance sucked so I switched to 1 point smite, much like you done with rabies and fury. for some reason you refuse to admit you had to change to a fury druid later on in order to be useful. I don't bullshit people though so I wont be using fury as a cop out

_________________

Dude - pre-patch rabies was a build for noobs. With the ring exploit a 4 year old with a mouse and keyboard should have been able to rocket through this game.

If you need that kind of damage to get through the game you had better take a hard look at your gaming "skills".

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.

you need skill to play d2? I have never needed any kind of "skill" to play d2 in any shape or form. If you think playing this game requires skill then you are pretty terrible at it.

The screenshot was showing the damage of the skill at level 50. Not once have I said the charges should be added to the ring again, I already stated it should be a 60 point build with the same damage potential as it had before the changes. Thats his endgame damage that he didnt have untill level 100 anyway. remember he needed 99 for the +3 from sammy brain and +2 from the heart. also needed 95 for anni. through hell he had about 170k rabies iirc. Thats low by anyones standards, except yours apparently. Before you even got that build into act 2 normal Me and another 5 - 10 people had said you would say it was a viable build even if you couldnt break 100k over 8 seconds. Correct me if im wrong but balance means equality and rabies is by no means equal to any build in any form. Im still waiting for some numbers from you, since you keep avoiding the point i`ll take it you know yourself that your damage is terrible for a level 90. At least I can admit when a skill sucks. Perhaps you should look at why you find it so hard to admit that spending 40 points on a skill that can be outdone by a 1 point wonder skill is a waste.

_________________

Given that your druid did that sort of damage, I don't find that suprising

Look at the Smith battle - do you really think that is problematic? Do you really think that battle should go any differently in a balanced game?

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.

By your standards, yes its problematic because your stupid summons were able to tank a boss, at that rate I could sit there with 10 damage and pick away at him all day while my summons tank him. Try a boss like Diablo who bone cages you and chars your summons and tell me how that goes.

_________________

again, he was only around 140k at the start of hell, about 177k by a4 hell and that final damage with endgame gear. Want me to post a vid ov my lvl 81 meteor sorc killing the hell smith in 5% of the time it took you and no summons. its not hard to beat him, I wanted to see the damage rabies alone was doing against a boss. 8 mins against a sub boss is laughable since act bosses generaly take twice asd long as sub bosses. your build sucks dude, just face it

_________________

Sure.


This is exactly what I mean by unrealistic expectations. Boss battles are designed in this mod to be battles, not 2.4 minute speed bumps.

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.

This is exactly what I mean by unrealistic expectations. Boss battles are designed in this mod to be battles, not 2.4 minute speed bumps.[/quote]

Clearly they weren't because the majority of builds don't take that long to beat sub bosses. Plus you can't really call that a fight if your cheese summons are tanking him, even though you're not a summon druid.

_________________

2-3 mins on a sub boss is not unreasonable. They can be killed alot faster than that with alot of builds. I think my record was about 5-10 seconds with meteor stacking against nm cold dragon at level 81. with obscure builds its more like 2-3 mins though as meteor is seriously powerfull if put to propper use. a closer example to an obscure build would be my wwsin taking around 2-3 mins for hell ardual. Sub bosses dont pose much of a threat until late act 5. Its the act end bosses that pose a threat not the farming fodder inbetween

_________________

So you are saying that you think that every build should be able to solo a sub-boss in 2-3 minutes? If it can't, then that build is "junk"?

Just want to be sure I am accurately capturing your opinion.

P.S. - where's the video of your meteor sorc takin out the Smith?

_________________
People who live in cinder block houses can throw whatever they want.

2-3 minutes is about the standard on any build i have ever made. that includes crappy builds. sub bosses can be tanked by converts and the ones with no minions can usualy be held by a melee merc if you are on a ranged build

act end bosses fluctuate between 5 mins and 10 mins to kill, depending on the team, and if they know what they are doing. 10 mins is about the standard for a duo on a major boss though they can be killed alot faster if its the right duo. If you are used to such long battles you are likely playing with some un-coordinated teams or playing a flawed build

_________________